Study: Liberals Have Less Self-Control Because They Dont believe they have it..

[The Barbarian]

I think that it's true enough that liberals and conservatives have brains that work differently. Not clear to me that there's data showing which one causes the other, if there is a cause. Correlation isn't necessarily causation.

And there's some survival value in being hazard-avoiding, as well as in being open to new ideas.

If one is better than the other, one would expect that there would be one tending to dominate.

And no, it doesn't mean that conservatives are dumb.

Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.

John Stuart Mill
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/j/johnstuart201721.html#hLwQFg1V2PCR5wzL.99

Skeptical about that. And while classic conservatives might be dumber than liberals, the indications are that classic liberals (libertarians) are smarter than either.

For an inkling of what some social scientists think conservatives believe, parse a 2008 study by the University of Nevada at Reno sociologist Markus Kemmelmeier. To probe the political and social beliefs of nearly 7,000 undergraduates at an elite university, Kemmelmeier devised a set of six questions asking whether abortion, same-sex marriage, and gay sex should be legal, whether handguns and racist/sexist speech on campus should be banned, and whether higher taxes should be imposed on the wealthy. The first three were supposed to measure the students' views of "conservative gender roles," and the second set was supposed to gauge their "anti-regulation" beliefs. Kemmelmeier clearly thought that "liberals" would tend to be OK with legal abortion, same-sex marriage, and gay sex, and would opt to ban handguns and offensive speech and to tax the rich. Conservatives would supposedly hold the opposite views.

Savvy readers may recognize a problem with using these questions to sort people into just two ideological categories. And sure enough, Kemmelmeier got some results that puzzled him. He found that students who held more traditional views on gender and sex roles averaged lower on their verbal SAT and Achievement Test scores. "Surprisingly," he continued, this was not true of students with anti-regulation attitudes. With them, "all else being equal, more conservative respondents scored higher than more liberal respondents." Kemmelmeier ruefully notes that "this result was not anticipated" and "diametrically contradicts" the hypothesis that conservatism is linked to lower cognitive ability. Kemmelmeier is so evidently lost in the intellectual fog of contemporary progressivism that he does not realize that his questionnaire is impeccably designed to identify classical liberals, a.k.a. libertarians, who endorse liberty in both the social and economic realms.
http://reason.com/archives/2014/06/13/are-conservatives-dumber-than-liberals

So, if someone thinks political orientation is a good indication of IQ, he's probably a conservative. Or a liberal.

For what that's worth.

 

[Ktoyou]

Well, doesn't that just explain a lot.

Its about accountability.

Yes, it explains how liberals are the first to lose their own compass, for they do not discriminate, nor do they rely on their own natural prejudges, in other words, they do not think for themselves.

They live in a state of hypervigilance, fearing consistently, words like racism, sexism and other rootless referents. now that IS secular religion and it is apt!

 

[gcthomas]

I read the paper, wasn't all that impressed with the methodology. Did you see anywhere where they gave an operational definition for liberal and conservative? Also did I miss the numbers for subjects with each ideology? I didn't see them listed on the demographic table.

There were about 135 in each experiment, with up to a ten percent withdrawal rate. The is no indication as to how the groups were made representative, but if the withdrawals biased the result. Some of the confidence intervals were very close to zero, with a real possibility of systematic errors unaccounted for.

Two groups were students (which course?) who were given course credits, and the third were a rent-a-group from an Amazon online recruitment system.

As I said before, it is an underpowered study with no indication of how biases were avoided.

 

[gcthomas]

Yes, it explains how liberals are the first to lose their own compass, for they do not discriminate, nor do they rely on their own natural prejudges, in other words, they do not think for themselves.

They live in a state of hypervigilance, fearing consistently, words like racism, sexism and other rootless referents. now that IS secular religion and it is apt!

That doesn't describe any person I know. Does fabricating weaknesses of other groups help you to live with yourself as you write off whole groups of humanity?

 

[Ktoyou]

That doesn't describe any person I know. Does fabricating weaknesses of other groups help you to live with yourself as you write off whole groups of humanity?

You cannot see from inside the box they locked you into, along with all those you know. I was born outside the box, and yes, I see what has taken place.

 

[gcthomas]

You cannot see from inside the box they locked you into, along with all those you know. I was born outside the box, and yes, I see what has taken place.

So being born outside the box gives you special powers to understand the motivations of people whose world view you don't understand?

Sounds like magic, this 'out of the box' thing you have. Or perhaps you are just 'off your trolley'?

 

[annabenedetti]

There were about 135 in each experiment, with up to a ten percent withdrawal rate. The is no indication as to how the groups were made representative, but if the withdrawals biased the result. Some of the confidence intervals were very close to zero, with a real possibility of systematic errors unaccounted for.

Two groups were students (which course?) who were given course credits, and the third were a rent-a-group from an Amazon online recruitment system.

As I said before, it is an underpowered study with no indication of how biases were avoided.

Yeah, convenience samples in the first two. My guess is that they're all psychology majors, and I saw the expected greater ratio of women, and predominantly Caucasian ethnicity.

I looked again and still didn't find an operational definition, the whole report seems rather light on supporting information, but maybe that's just me. I found where the ideologies were all self reported, but at least the first study had a Likert scale, but still that doesn't seem nearly adequate for what they were doing. I don't know how to interpret their task persistence graph, but that's probably my limitation.

There was this:

Of course, despite addressing potential differences in perfor-
mance (study 1) and motivation (study 2), other explanations
remain possible for the relationship between political ideology
and self-control apart from differences in freewill beliefs.

Of course.

And again maybe it's just me, but I don't see the value in ascribing self-control values based on political ideology to one's ability to match color words to color backgrounds.

 

[Angel4Truth]

"For conservatives, their default when they experience struggle is to dig deep."

"You tell liberals that belief in free will is bad and they are like, 'Good, I don't have it anyway."

How is it about accountability?

If you dont believe you have free will, you believe you have the perfect excuse for anything you do, if you admit you have free will, then you have to admit there is accountability for your actions.

 

[annabenedetti]

If you dont believe you have free will, you believe you have the perfect excuse for anything you do, if you admit you have free will, then you have to admit there is accountability for your actions.

"You tell liberals that belief in free will is bad and they are like, 'Good, I don't have it anyway."

How do you know his statement is correct? That it applies to all liberals?

And how does one's skill at matching color words to color backgrounds show a particular measure of self control - or accountability?

What do you think of the study methodology?

 

[Angel4Truth]

"You tell liberals that belief in free will is bad and they are like, 'Good, I don't have it anyway."

How do you know his statement is correct?

I see it in action daily.

That it applies to all liberals?

never said it did.

And how does one's skill at matching color words to color backgrounds show a particular measure of self control - or accountability?

What do you think of the study methodology?

All irrelevant to the fact that i see liberals consistently blaming other things for problems instead of placing it where it belongs.

 

[annabenedetti]

I see it in action daily.

never said it did.

Here's the thing about a scientific experiment. If a sample can't be generalized to a population, its validity and reliability are suspect.

I kinda think the same thing can said about personal opinions.

All irrelevant to the fact that i see liberals consistently blaming other things for problems instead of placing it where it belongs.

Irrelevant? You think the study methodology is irrelevant? That's unfortunate.

Is it possible that you saw the study title, and it confirmed your bias?

 

[Ktoyou]

So being born outside the box gives you special powers to understand the motivations of people whose world view you don't understand?

Sounds like magic, this 'out of the box' thing you have. Or perhaps you are just 'off your trolley'?

No, I am not the one who is off. You see I was not born into the Massachusetts Puritan society where you had to think one way or suffer, nor was I born into the so called 'politically correct' society when one has to think one way. I was lucky to be born in a time were one could choose how to think.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Here's the thing about a scientific experiment. If a sample can't be generalized to a population, its validity and reliability is suspect.

I kinda think the same thing can said about personal opinions.

Irrelevant? You think the study methodology is irrelevant? That's unfortunate.

Is it possible that you saw the study title, and it confirmed your bias?

I don't need that study to know that for the most part liberals and especially extreme liberals show in action that they do not believe in accountability for their own actions.

The quote about free will though, says much, it explains how they can continue down failed paths while blaming its failure on everyone else.

 

[gcthomas]

I don't need that study to know that for the most part liberals and especially extreme liberals show in action that they do not believe in accountability for their own actions.

The quote about free will though, says much, it explains how they can continue down failed paths while blaming its failure on everyone else.

And wouldn't you just love some actual evidence to make you feel better about your choice of confirmation bias. It is a shame that this report is such a weak piece of work.

You really should have read it first. Media reports cribbing their news from other news magazines, with no one from either side trading the report either, do not make for reliable sources.

Unless rhetorical snippets were all you were really after.

 

[Angel4Truth]

And wouldn't you just love some actual evidence to make you feel better about your choice of confirmation bias.

Don't need it. I know what i can see with my own eyes, that was only trying to understand yours and other extreme liberals warped thinking, if you insist theres no cause, then ill just chalk it down to mental illness, thanks!

 

[annabenedetti]

I don't need that study to know that for the most part liberals and especially extreme liberals show in action that they do not believe in accountability for their own actions.

The quote about free will though, says much, it explains how they can continue down failed paths while blaming its failure on everyone else.

If you don't need the study and think its methodology is irrelevant, you could've just posted a thread that said "I think liberals have less control than conservatives" and then you'd only have had to support your own biased opinion instead of a study that you don't seem to think is relevant beyond the title and a couple of quotes.

 

[Angel4Truth]

If you don't need the study and think its methodology is irrelevant, you could've just posted a thread that said "I think liberals have less control than conservatives" and then you'd only have had to support your own biased opinion instead of a study that you don't seem to think is relevant beyond the title and a couple of quotes.

wow, nice spin, actually the article supports my thinking and im not dependant on it to think what i do either, isnt that beautiful that we can think what we want?

 

[annabenedetti]

wow, nice spin

No spin.

If you don't need the study

I don't need that study

and think its methodology is irrelevant

What do you think of the study methodology?

All irrelevant to the fact that i see liberals consistently blaming other things for problems instead of placing it where it belongs.

Confirmation bias:

actually the article supports my thinking

(And mostly, the study title and a couple quotes support your thinking. The study itself doesn't, in my opinion, deliver as advertised.)

isnt that beautiful that we can think what we want?

It sure is.


Here's what I think. The title is catchy, it's going to appeal to anyone who has a bias against liberals, and most people won't follow the trail back to the actual paper itself. I think that's probably usually the case. People are used to reading short soundbites of news, and it's pretty common knowledge how information can be distorted by selective quotes and misleading headlines.

 

[Angel4Truth]

No spin.







Confirmation bias:



(And mostly, the study title and a couple quotes support your thinking. The study itself doesn't, in my opinion, deliver as advertised.)




It sure is.


Here's what I think. The title is catchy, it's going to appeal to anyone who has a bias against liberals, and most people won't follow the trail back to the actual paper itself. I think that's probably usually the case. People are used to reading short soundbites of news, and it's pretty common knowledge how information can be distorted by selective quotes and misleading headlines.

And? I need no reason to know extreme liberals live in a no accountability fantasy, i see it everyday - nothing needs to confirm that for me, i was only looking seeking a reason why they act like that, so your claim of confirmation bias, is inaccurate.

As far the rest, i quoted the whole article, so you dont have to hunt anything down

Feel free to agree or not, or offer a better reason for the blaming of others for their own actions.

 

[glorydaz]

Interesting results, given that liberals also tend to be more intelligent and better educated.

:rotfl: If thats so, then its sad they don't know how to use it.

The quickest way to prove a liberal wrong is simply to use common sense and respond. :thumb: