Study: Homophobes Might Be Hidden Homosexuals

[genuineoriginal]

Wow, folks sure do manage to change the subject around here.

And look, it's TH and his special buddy rolling around together over TOL again! We ought to have some sort of TOL "how long can a thread last at TOL before TH and his infatuation crash through it like a couple of teenagers tickling one another."

A lot of posters on TOL are 'murcans (like me), and it is well known that that 'murcans have a shorter attention span than a goldfish.

 

[Crucible]

Since my beliefs are the Biblical ones that sex should only be done in a marriage and between a husband and his wife, I see no problem with allowing the parents to give consent for their children to get married.

Meh.

We don't live in a tribal society anymore, having a need for parents to decide who their children marry. Just like polygamy- it was necessary for a time. It no longer is nor is valued.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Meh.

We don't live in a tribal society anymore, having a need for parents to decide who their children marry. Just like polygamy- it was necessary for a time. It no longer is nor is valued.

This is the result:

as the National Center for Health Statistics has it: "60 percent of marriages for couples between the ages of 20 and 25 end in divorce."

It's worse if you factor in those under twenty.

That is what we call "progress".

 

[Town Heretic]

Wow, folks sure do manage to change the subject around here.

Ever day in every way. Not that you've ever done that.

And look, it's TH and his special buddy rolling around together over TOL again!

He's been your buddy too, don't go shy on me now just because you're being a sore loser.

I can't figure out if their obsession is with one other or with themselves.

Like being lectured on self restraint by a hedonist.

We ought to have some sort of TOL pool, "how long can a thread last at TOL before TH and his infatuation crash through it like a couple of teenagers tickling one another."

If you could work a "retards" in that you'd darn near be in line for a POTY.

Sorry anyway, doofus.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Yes, the homosexual agenda loves to declare that sexual preference is fixed, despite all evidence to the contrary.

What evidence to the contrary? It isn't some "homosexual agenda" that declares this either. Get a grip.

Yes, you have already made the narcissistic point that nobody is able to do what you are incapable of doing, even where it relates to your inability to understand the topic of "sexual orientation" that you are so desperate to be a part of.

There's nothing "narcissistic" about it. I take no pride in being heterosexual, why would I? I didn't get a say in it or "choose" it or do something to "earn" it so what the heck is there to be narcissistic about in being exclusively attracted to women exactly? I'm not "desperate" to be straight either so yet another fail on your part.

 

[genuineoriginal]

There's nothing "narcissistic" about it. I take no pride in being heterosexual, why would I? I didn't get a say in it or "choose" it or do something to "earn" it so what the heck is there to be narcissistic about in being exclusively attracted to women exactly? I'm not "desperate" to be straight either so yet another fail on your part.

It is enlightening to see how you can answer my statements and all those other statements I didn't make at the same time.

 

[Delmar]

I've just said I'd have felt 'yeuchh' to find out that who I thought was performing this act turned out to be a man instead of a woman.

Sure you said that, but you don't know it.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Sure you said that, but you don't know it.

Yes, I do.

 

[Arthur Brain]

It is enlightening to see how you can answer my statements and all those other statements I didn't make at the same time.

It's telling that you think that someone having an immutable orientation is somehow narcissistic or rooted in some sort of fear of the opposite.

You are just plain idiotic on this whole subject. If you have innate attractions to the same, both genders etc then fine. Just don't argue like a fruitcake is all.

 

[alwight]

The whole idea of a fixed "sexual orientation" is source of the bovine scatterings you are smelling.

I'm seeing a lot of words here in this post but does it make any sense or is it bluster? :think:
Anyway, given that sexual reproduction is an undeniable reality and that specific body parts physically do exist to cater for it from birth, that I hope we can agree has no element of choice by the individual, then it would make logical sense to me that having a desire to use them would indeed be included in the package.
Of course that rather leads to the obvious claim that if that were true then why are there people around who seem to have the sexual orientation of the wrong gender?

I think there are good rational reasons for explaining this from something that simply went wrong to even perhaps as being a naturally selected subtle evolutionary trait to increase the fecundity of female sisters of gay males (there is science to support this btw), who clearly have very similar genes. However it isn't my intention to talk about that here since I think that would be straying away from the topic.

Maybe you are looking at "choosing" in the wrong way?
Do you ever choose what you are going to eat or who you are going to have sex with? (If you are human, the answer is probably yes).

Yes but some people (women aCW!) I might like to have sex with wouldn't helpfully spit on me if I were on fire.

Are you assuming that your sexual preference is similar to your food preference, in that you never consciously chose what your food preference is? (Again, the answer is probably yes).

Actually my own food preference has changed in the course of my life, I wouldn't eat vegetables or mushrooms as a kid but now I wouldn't be without them. Maybe I was corrupted by a paedophile vegan at some point? Yeah that would be it.

Are you assuming that your sexual preference is fixed from birth, but that your food preference changes over your lifetime? (From your participation in this thread, I assume you will answer yes).

I can tell you that my sexual preference has not changed since I found that first copy of Playboy and that yes my preference for food has indeed changed over time...

I submit that a person's sexual preference (falsely called a sexual orientation) is something that changes over the course of a person's lifetime in much the same manner that a person's food preference changes over the course of a person's lifetime.

A fixed sexual orientation seems to be what we all have even if you don't like it much notwithstanding those who swing both ways, Not in me it hasn't changed, who has admitted to this idea, you? It's a fundie myth imo.
But the point here about food anyway is that experience and maturity opens you up to a subtle change of diet that may be more suitable to the needs of an adult than those of a growing child.

In Australia, a common snack is the Vegemite sandwich. The preference for a Vegemite sandwich is not a genetic preference, but a cultural one.
The Australian did not choose to have a food preference for a Vegemite sandwich, nor did the non-Australian choose to have a food aversion to a Vegemite sandwich.
It is extremely rare for a non-Australian to acquire a food preference for a Vegemite sandwich, and they never know if they have a food preference or a food aversion to it if they never try one.

Have you been talking to AB again?
Vegemite is like a Marmite for wimps, once you acquire a taste for Marmite real men don't go back. :IA:
I don't think I've just shot myself in the foot btw.:think:

Many Asians have a food aversion to cheese. This is so pronounced in some Asians that they will order pizza without cheese. There appears to be both a cultural and a biological non-genetic reason for this food aversion. Cheese is not a food staple in Asian foods, creating a cultural aversion. Because cheese is not a food staple, many Asians are lactose intolerant, creating a biological non-genetic aversion. Asians brought up in a society where cheese is a food staple end up eating cheese as children and never get the cultural aversion or the biological non-genetic aversion to cheese.

Careful now you are flirting with possible regional Darwinian evolutionary adaptions and racial preferences. When God confused the tongues did he also confuse the dietary requirements accordingly? :sherlock:

Torah observant Jews have an food aversion to pork. This is a cultural aversion that can be overcome by choice. There are many Jews that have chosen to eat pork, usually bacon, and have discovered that they like it, creating a food preference for pork to replace the cultural food aversion to pork.

Bacon is pretty irresistible I'll agree. However there were perhaps more practical reasons for keeping certain livestock if the culture was originally nomadic which they were. The same probably applies to shellfish too since if you don't really know what shellfish is safe to eat then it was probably easier just to forbid all of it to travelling people. I have no idea why mixed weave cloth was forbidden though?

I see you are starting the person's sexual preferences at adolescence instead of at birth.
That is good, since nobody is born heterosexual or homosexual at birth, but develop their sexual preferences according to the society they grow up in, much like the Australian and the Vegemite sandwich.

I don't accept that at all, I really don't think that this delay means one's sexuality is something learnt or chosen. Many changes happen at puberty, all very innate and genetic. We didn't choose to grow pubic hair and we didn't choose a sexuality either.

With sexual preferences, the key factors appear to be whether a person believes that they could experience sexual pleasure from a particular sex act or from a particular set of physical characteristics.

People who learn that they can experience sexual pleasure from pain or humiliation (shades of gray) are not able to unlearn this, so they will always display a sexual preference for sex acts that other people have an aversion to, whether it is a minor sexual preference or a major one.

Nah do you speak from personal experience or off the top of your head?
I think instead that this is simply fundie rhetoric for their self righteous persecution of people they are not willing to tolerate because they just happen to be different. And also simply because a fundamentalist interpretation of an ancient scripture might suggest that a man who lies with another man is as abominable as the wearing mixed weave cloth. lain:

In the same way, people that learn that they can experience sexual pleasure from same gender sex will never be able to unlearn this.

:blabla:

All mammals have a biological sexual preference for opposite gender sex (heterosexuality). Mammals that develop an aversion towards opposite gender sex are biologically dysfunctional (this is seen mostly in human homosexuals).

I really don't feel in the mood to trot mammals that clearly don't concur with you conclusion here. Well some might trot but others tend to live in trees and have hands.

Many mammals have the ability to experience sexual pleasure from something other than opposite gender sex acts (you may have seen this from monkeys in the zoo or a dog on a person's leg), but their main sexual preference is for opposite gender sex instead. This is a normal and natural ability, but should never be mistaken for a sexual preference (orientation) the way we are currently doing.

Deriving pleasure from your own private parts doesn't seem to depend on there always being a partner, I agree, while humans are mainly heterosexual too, while I also think that possibly homosexuality exists because in some cases such as I mentioned above it has become a selectable trait in the rearing of genetically similar offspring.

Humans are able to learn that they can experience sexual pleasure from many different things other than opposite gender sex, but since they are not able to unlearn one after experiencing it, there is no way to "cure" someone from having an aberrant sexual preference that has been learned. A homosexual can never unlearn that he can experience sexual pleasure from same gender sex, a pedophile can never unlearn that he can experience sexual pleasure from sex with minors, etc.

That is a very simplistic, if not homophobic, argument and also quite wrong imo, since it rather assumes that homosexuality is like a disease to be cured.
I think instead that gay people have gay sex because like heterosexuals they innately want to do it and enjoy it and have a human relationship, and also because they have enough smarts to know when they are doing something other than pleasant which historically has often brought them great problems in Abrahamic cultures at least.
Which is an even simpler argument than yours using Occam's Razor.

 

[Town Heretic]

While I've been clear in my position that it seems likely sexual orientation runs the gamut from opposite to mixed to same, I'm less certain about the ultimate point of the distinction between nurture/nature, after a fashion. At least as it relates to right and the law. I don't recall that any of the rulings granting rights have rested on the point.

Why does it matter so much to so many?

 

[alwight]

A lot of posters on TOL are 'murcans (like me), and it is well known that that 'murcans have a shorter attention span than a goldfish.

Wasn't that "Merkins"? G dubya Bush used to say "My fellow merkins".

Yes I am on my meds tonight btw.

 

[alwight]

Your insistence that they are closet homosexuals is not helping their fight.

But I don't want to help their fight because they are at least as bigoted as those they want to impress. :liberals:

 

[Arthur Brain]

Have you been talking to AB again?
Vegemite is like a Marmite for wimps, once you acquire a taste for Marmite real men don't go back. :IA:
I don't think I've just shot myself in the foot btw.:think:

Oi! I like Marmite thank you so very much...!

:mmph:

 

[genuineoriginal]

why are there people around who seem to have the sexual orientation of the wrong gender?

"many psychological studies [...] indicate that the parent-child relationship, early childhood development, early homosexual experiences, and childhood abuse foster homosexuality"
http://www.conservapedia.com/Causes_of_Homosexuality

I can tell you that my sexual preference has not changed since I found that first copy of Playboy

I doubt that, since my experience is that my sexual preference has changed from females aged 15-21 to females 40-55.

A fixed sexual orientation seems to be what we all have even if you don't like it much notwithstanding those who swing both ways

There is an appearance of a fixed sexual preference if you don't go beyond the surface.
People in denial of sexual fluidity will always fall back on the excuse that the person that changes was really like that in the first place and just suppressed it.

I don't accept that at all, I really don't think that this delay means one's sexuality is something learnt or chosen. Many changes happen at puberty, all very innate and genetic. We didn't choose to grow pubic hair and we didn't choose a sexuality either.

Most people do not choose a sexual preference at puberty.
Most people do not choose their native language, either.
Both the sexual preference and the native language are learned from the day a person is born until the day they die, and both are taught to them by the society they grow up in.
The difference between the two is that the sexual preference is strongly reinforced by the sexual responses experienced during puberty.

That is a very simplistic, if not homophobic, argument and also quite wrong imo, since it rather assumes that homosexuality is like a disease to be cured.

It is actually quite the opposite, since I stated that homosexuality is not something that can be "cured", which is the same type of statement used by the professionals that treat pedophiles.

I think instead that gay people have gay sex because like heterosexuals they innately want to do it and enjoy it and have a human relationship, and also because they have enough smarts to know when they are doing something other than pleasant which historically has often brought them great problems in Abrahamic cultures at least.
Which is an even simpler argument than yours using Occam's Razor.

In other words, you are claiming that homosexual acts are done in rebellion to the rules of the culture, as is adoption of a homosexual "sexual orientation", especially when the culture has very strict rules about who you can have sex with.
You may have a point there, though your argument presupposes that homosexuality is a choice.

 

[alwight]

Oi! I like Marmite thank you so very much...!

:mmph:

Oi! Marmite is for real men only, keep off, stick to Vegemite! :IA:

 

[genuineoriginal]

Wasn't that "Merkins"? G dubya Bush used to say "My fellow merkins".

No.

A merkin is a pubic wig.

 

[alwight]

"many psychological studies [...] indicate that the parent-child relationship, early childhood development, early homosexual experiences, and childhood abuse foster homosexuality"
http://www.conservapedia.com/Causes_of_Homosexuality

Sorry but Conservapedia isn't a place I rush to for rational information. I am not talking about abuses, why are you if you're not just slinging mud?

I doubt that, since my experience is that my sexual preference has changed from females aged 15-21 to females 40-55.

Slinging red herrings then.

There is an appearance of a fixed sexual preference if you don't go beyond the surface.
People in denial of sexual fluidity will always fall back on the excuse that the person that changes was really like that in the first place and just suppressed it.

Fluidity is not flip-flopping.

Most people do not choose a sexual preference at puberty.

Exactly, they just don't choose.

Most people do not choose their native language, either.
Both the sexual preference and the native language are learned from the day a person is born until the day they die, and both are taught to them by the society they grow up in.
The difference between the two is that the sexual preference is strongly reinforced by the sexual responses experienced during puberty.

A language is useful knowledge gained for those who use it. A sexual preference does not require that it is learnt.

It is actually quite the opposite, since I stated that homosexuality is not something that can be "cured", which is the same type of statement used by the professionals that treat pedophiles.

I interpreted it as a disease that can't be cured, I will however accept your clarification.
Why "paedophiles" has to be used against a context of all homosexuals once again is something I don't as easily want to accept because it is not true and an obvious smear tactic.

In other words, you are claiming that homosexual acts are done in rebellion to the rules of the culture, as is adoption of a homosexual "sexual orientation", especially when the culture has very strict rules about who you can have sex with.
You may have a point there, though your argument presupposes that homosexuality is a choice.

No of course not, homosexual sex is done by those who want to do it in spite of the prevailing culture. "Rebelling" against a culture or do you mean God(?) is just your spin and thus without actual foundation in reality and the testimony of those who do it. lain:

 

[Arthur Brain]

Oi! Marmite is for real men only, keep off, stick to Vegemite! :IA:

I say sir, it's just as well you live in the Isle of rhyming slang as any closer proximity between ourselves in light of this atrocious slur would have resulted in nothing particularly memorable whatsoever!

You have been duly advised...

:nono:

 

[Arthur Brain]

"many psychological studies [...] indicate that the parent-child relationship, early childhood development, early homosexual experiences, and childhood abuse foster homosexuality"
http://www.conservapedia.com/Causes_of_Homosexuality

Conservapedia? Seriously?

Heck dude, you might as well ask a fridge to tell you the time.

:freak: