Study: European Muslim population can only grow

[musterion]

England gonna have to do something about acid throwers.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fear-london-acid-attacks-soar-031225830.html

A comment points out something I've read elsewhere -- another country notorious for acid attacks?

Pakistan.

Coincidence, surely.

 

[The Barbarian]

I showed you that BLM committed violence,

You got caught claiming the shooter in Dallas was a member of BLM. When I showed you that the police knew he wasn't, you claimed (without evidence) that he was associated with Black Panthers. Apparently, you think all black people are the same.

I told you what I heard during an on-air BLM riot,

A witness pointed out that those people weren't associated with BLM. Again, you seem to think all black people are the same.

You keep implying that I think all blacks are the same

You could debunk that by no longer acting as though you think they are. Throwing a tantrum won't help you. But coming up with some evidence might help. Posting more hoaxes, or claiming the Dallas police lied when they said the shooter wasn't associated with BLM will just make it worse for you.

Your choice.

 

[patrick jane]

Apparently, you think all black people are the same.

What you think is apparent and what you think I think means nothing to me. Apparently.

 

[The Barbarian]

What you think is apparent and what you think I think means nothing to me. Apparently.

Equating BLM with the Black Panthers, and the Dallas sniper with BLM pretty much blew the cover off of it for you.

 

[The Berean]

Black Panthers? Wait, what? There are no more Black Panthers except for the few remaining old members who are elderly today.

 

[The Barbarian]

Black Panthers? Wait, what? There are no more Black Panthers except for the few remaining old members who are elderly today.

Actually, there is a "New Black Panthers" party that seems to have nothing to do with the old Black Panthers or nonviolent groups like BLM.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Black_Panther_Party

 

[The Berean]

Actually, there is a "New Black Panthers" party that seems to have nothing to do with the old Black Panthers or nonviolent groups like BLM.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Black_Panther_Party

Yeah, I've heard about those guys. But the original Black Panthers have publicly stated that they new Black Panthers are illegitimate and do not have their permission to use the "Black Panther" name.

 

[The Barbarian]

Yeah, I've heard about those guys. But the original Black Panthers have publicly stated that they new Black Panthers are illegitimate and do not have their permission to use the "Black Panther" name.

Precisely. But they make a nice boogyman for those who want to pretend that they are BLM.

 

[musterion]

Homosexuals comment on life now in Amsterdam.

[FONT=&quot]In 1996 I moved into my own place in the same Bos en Lommer area, about five minutes away from my former lover’s dwelling. Within the 20 years I lived there, I witnessed a dramatic change. It seemed that I had moved from a Dutch neighbourhood to a Middle Eastern or North African town, without even lifting a finger. I lived on the second floor a four-story building, sharing the staircase with my neighbours. When I moved in in 1996, all my neighbours were Dutch. When I moved out, all of them were Turks and Moroccans.[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][/FONT]

https://pamelageller.com/2017/12/islamization-gays-holland.html/

 

[patrick jane]

Precisely. But they make a nice boogyman for those who want to pretend that they are BLM.

They all look the same.

 

[musterion]

[FONT=&quot]Almost no one in that area speaks Dutch anymore. In the streets you hear all kinds of guttural Babylonian confusion. Any Dutch that you do hear is mangled and no longer sounds like Dutch. It all seems intentional. The migrants seem to possess a silent rage, a smouldering hostility towards their host culture. Dutch culture, which welcomed them with world famous Dutch tolerance and gave them every social benefit, is despised and spat on. And there is no improvement in this attitude in their children. The second and third generations appear progressively more hostile to the original Dutch culture, and lock themselves more and more into their own culture. Islamic ideology has deepened this chasm with alarming rapidity.[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[jsanford108]

They all look the same.

Haha. That is great.


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[The Barbarian]

Facts about some of the crazier misconceptions Islamophobes have about Muslims:

5. Muslim immigrants in the West hold the same backward views that Muslims do in the Middle East and Pakistan

Actually, Muslims change their cultural views dramatically when they emigrate. For example, 62% of American Muslims say that “a way can be found for the state of Israel to exist so that the rights of Palestinians are addressed” — a rate barely lower than that of average Americans (67%), and vastly ahead of the miniscule response among Middle Eastern Muslims — for whom between 20% and 40% agreed with that statement.

Similarly, 39% of American Muslims and 47% of German Muslims say they tolerate homosexuality, compared to single-figure responses in most Islamic countries — and those rates are rising with each immigrant generation. On these important questions, Muslim immigrants are converging with Western values fast.

6. Muslims in America are more loyal to their faith than their country
True, 49% of Americans from Muslim backgrounds say they consider themselves “Muslim first and American second” and 47% claim to attend a mosque on Friday. But you have to compare that to American Christians, 46% of whom say they identify themselves as “Christian first and American second” (that number rises to 70% among Evangelicals). And 45% of American Christians attend a church service every Sunday.

In other words, Muslims have adopted exactly the same rate of religious observance as the people around them in their host country. We see this just as strongly in France, where a fifth of Muslims are atheist and only 5% attend a mosque regularly – almost the same rate as French Christians.
http://dougsaunders.net/2013/09/10-myths-about-muslim-immigrants-in-the-west/

 

[genuineoriginal]

BLM opposes violence and has not committed any acts of violence or terrorism.

The FBI’s New U.S. Terrorist Threat: ‘Black Identity Extremists’
As white supremacists prepared to descend on Charlottesville, Virginia, in August, the FBI warned about a new movement that was violent, growing, and racially motivated. Only it wasn’t white supremacists; it was “black identity extremists.”

Amid a rancorous debate over whether the Trump administration has downplayed the threat posed by white supremacist groups, the FBI’s counterterrorism division has declared that black identity extremists pose a growing threat of premeditated violence against law enforcement.

“The FBI assesses it is very likely Black Identity Extremist (BIE) perceptions of police brutality against African Americans spurred an increase in premeditated, retaliatory lethal violence against law enforcement and will very likely serve as justification for such violence,” reads the report, marked for official use only and obtained by Foreign Policy.​

 

[SUTG]

Facts about some of the crazier misconceptions Islamophobes have about Muslims:
http://dougsaunders.net/2013/09/10-myths-about-muslim-immigrants-in-the-west/

I read the Doug Saunders link. None of the statistics appear to be sourced.

 

[The Barbarian]

The FBI’s New U.S. Terrorist Threat: ‘Black Identity Extremists’
As white supremacists prepared to descend on Charlottesville, Virginia, in August, the FBI warned about a new movement that was violent, growing, and racially motivated. Only it wasn’t white supremacists; it was “black identity extremists.”

Amid a rancorous debate over whether the Trump administration has downplayed the threat posed by white supremacist groups, the FBI’s counterterrorism division has declared that black identity extremists pose a growing threat of premeditated violence against law enforcement.
Barbarian observes:
BLM opposes violence and has not committed any acts of violence or terrorism.

FBI agrees:
“The FBI assesses it is very likely Black Identity Extremist (BIE) perceptions of police brutality against African Americans spurred an increase in premeditated, retaliatory lethal violence against law enforcement and will very likely serve as justification for such violence,” reads the report, marked for official use only and obtained by Foreign Policy.​

So, for example, if Trump tweets about Muslim violence, and then some right-wing idiot attacks Muslims, Trump is a terrorist?

You sure you want to argue that?

 

[The Barbarian]

I read the Doug Saunders link. None of the statistics appear to be sourced.

Source: Statistics Netherlands, 2006, as cited in C.F. Westoff and T. Frejka, Population and Development Review 33, no. 4 (2007): table 3.
Fertility Falling in Immigrants' Home Countries

Fertility levels in the countries of origin for Muslim immigrants are reflected in different fertility rates among Muslim groups in Europe, as immigrants often arrive with the norms of their home countries. In Norway, the TFRs varied substantially depending on where women were born. Among immigrant women living in Norway, Somali women had a TFR of 5.2 in 1997-1998, compared with 4.8 for Iraqis, 3.1 for Turks, and 1.9 for Iranians. Native Norwegian women had 1.8 children on average during the period.

But fertility has been falling in many Muslim countries in the Middle East and Africa, which may help explain why younger Muslim women have lower fertility than older women. In Turkey, the TFR dropped from 3.3 in the 1985 to 1990 period to about 2.2 in 2003. Over the same span of years, the TFR fell from 4.5 to 2.5 in Morocco, and from 5.6 to 2.1 in Iran, according to UN estimates.

Muslims who grew up in Europe in immigrant families are also likely to adopt the majority population's preference for smaller families. All countries in Europe have had low fertility for decades.
http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2008/muslimsineurope.aspx

 

[jsanford108]

Facts about some of the crazier misconceptions Islamophobes have about Muslims:

5. Muslim immigrants in the West hold the same backward views that Muslims do in the Middle East and Pakistan

Actually, Muslims change their cultural views dramatically when they emigrate. For example, 62% of American Muslims say that “a way can be found for the state of Israel to exist so that the rights of Palestinians are addressed” — a rate barely lower than that of average Americans (67%), and vastly ahead of the miniscule response among Middle Eastern Muslims — for whom between 20% and 40% agreed with that statement.

Similarly, 39% of American Muslims and 47% of German Muslims say they tolerate homosexuality, compared to single-figure responses in most Islamic countries — and those rates are rising with each immigrant generation. On these important questions, Muslim immigrants are converging with Western values fast.

6. Muslims in America are more loyal to their faith than their country
True, 49% of Americans from Muslim backgrounds say they consider themselves “Muslim first and American second” and 47% claim to attend a mosque on Friday. But you have to compare that to American Christians, 46% of whom say they identify themselves as “Christian first and American second” (that number rises to 70% among Evangelicals). And 45% of American Christians attend a church service every Sunday.

In other words, Muslims have adopted exactly the same rate of religious observance as the people around them in their host country. We see this just as strongly in France, where a fifth of Muslims are atheist and only 5% attend a mosque regularly – almost the same rate as French Christians.
http://dougsaunders.net/2013/09/10-myths-about-muslim-immigrants-in-the-west/

Hello Barb. I would like to discuss this topic, in particular, your list of facts vs misconceptions, with you.

However, in order to have a productive and progressive discussion, we must agree on three principles: to be logical, honest, and objective. Sure, we can be subjective in personal opinions, but we should be objective in analysis and posits. With these three principles, if either of us transgresses, it can easily be called out and proven as illogical/dishonest/subjective. I think we would agree that these three principles are necessary when discussing facts/statistics.

If you agree, state it, and we will progress.


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[The Barbarian]

Hello Barb. I would like to discuss this topic, in particular, your list of facts vs misconceptions, with you.

Feel free.

If you agree, state it, and we will progress.

If you can hold yourself to the facts, that would be a big help. As you've probably seen here, dishonesty is pretty much it's own punishment. Don't care if you're objective or not; be honest, and deal in facts, and we'll get along fine.

 

[jsanford108]

Study: European Muslim population can only grow

Feel free.



If you can hold yourself to the facts, that would be a big help. As you've probably seen here, dishonesty is pretty much it's own punishment. Don't care if you're objective or not; be honest, and deal in facts, and we'll get along fine.

So, you agree?

And do not worry; I derive any stance on an issue from objective analysis of facts and statics. Logically, a submission of facts, with respect to accuracy, should dictate one's stance on any issue. My goal is to always follow truth and logic, wherever it leads, with skepticism and belief.

If you don't mind, what are your first four points? I notice that the first post I responded to listed #5 and #6. I could not find a previous post of yours with 1-4. (Unless you are only using points 5&6 from the post by DS; which is my assumption, but I want to be accurate)

I will be positing my disagreement with points 5 and 6; I just would like to have the full scope of your case upfront, to better my own argument.


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