Some Anti Name-Calling Folks...

[Delmar]

Do I necessarily have to actually show them or quote the verse, or can I rightly just call atheists fools?

So our namecalling must be strictly limited to those specifically used in the Bible?

Slut is out, but whore and whoremonger are in?

Faggot is out, but abomination, pervert, and sodomite are OK?


Is that what you're saying?

I can make those adjustments.

 

[The Edge]

Yes, by post 172.

 

[Agape4Robin]

Do I necessarily have to actually show them or quote the verse, or can I rightly just call atheists fools?

So our namecalling must be strictly limited to those specifically used in the Bible?

Slut is out, but whore and whoremonger are in?

Faggot is out, but abomination, pervert, and sodomite are OK?


Is that what you're saying?

That is not what I'm saying at all.

How do you hope to reach any of the lost, while they are lost, when you resort to name calling and labeling them? Is your respect for others only limited to the repentant and the saved? Or do you desire to bring others into the kingdom? Does your heart break when you see the lost who are oblivious to their sin? Or are you disgusted?

It's time that we roll up our collective sleeves and get our hands dirty and harvest for Christ, but let's not have that dirt come from our own mouths. Only the Holy Spirit can prepare the heart, and you never know when you are advancing the work of the Holy Spirit or hindering it. We must not assume anything.....being loving is not the same thing as being tolerant......there is a difference.

 

[Lighthouse]

Did he come to him without sin ?

Stupid question.

Why does it even matter? Those who come to Him in submission are treated differently than those who deny, defy, and reject Him.:duh:

 

[Frank Ernest]

Okay Frank..
yes the name calling did get their attention...but looking at John's statement in verse 8 of that passage, did they , the Pharisees and Sadducees repent and go on to bear 'good' fruit, or did they ignore John the Baptist's name calling? I concede that I was in error in part re their handing Jesus up to the Romans. They were [ the chief priests and teachers of the law, as stated in Luke 23 ] however just as complicit in their actions in taking Him to Pilate as if they had put Him on the cross themselves.

I don't believe that you could paraphrase the name calling used by John the Baptist in such a way as to have the effect that would have been desirous, for it is evident from the Bible, that the hearts of both the Pharisees and the Sadducees were not to be swayed.
The thing is, that we are not privy to the contents of another man's heart, so our name calling may have exactly th same result as John's did with that particular group. It is interesting though that Jesus didn't name call Nicodemus in His ministry, and look at the fruit that supposedly was borne from that 'loving' approach .

Name-calling had the effect on these people of waking them up. They knew what they were, reveled in it, and continued to their own destruction with it. They did not ignore John the Baptist's name-calling. They killed him.

Before one can get another person from Point A to Point B, one must correctly identify Point A. Taking some watered-down approach to that doesn't cut it. (I do believe the modern age has developed the ideas of "intervention" and "sensitivity training" which are nothing more than group name-calling sessions.)

What needs to be understood is that the very people who are so adamantly against name-calling, use it as a weapon. The idea behind supposedly prohibiting it is to prevent someone else (the opposition) from doing it. So if someone calls me a right-wing Christian fanatic extremist, that's acceptable. If I return the favor by calling that person a filthy left-wing stupid atheist, why, that's name-calling and just can't be allowed.

Getting the picture?

 

[Frank Ernest]

Judgement as it pertains to assessing a situation is always the right thing to do. If you show a person in scripture what God has to say about not believing in God, then it is not you saying that they are a fool. The offense is not on you. But no where in scripture is the word faggot or slut.
Even if it did, read context, context, context!!!!

I do believe Paul used the Greek word "arsenokoitus" which is not a very nice word. (Look it up if you need to.) I do believe the word translated as "harlot" is used fairly often in God's Word.

Yes, the contexts are quite clear.

 

[Caille]

I do believe Paul used the Greek word "arsenokoitus" which is not a very nice word. (Look it up if you need to.) I do believe the word translated as "harlot" is used fairly often in God's Word.

Yes, the contexts are quite clear.

Depends on which concordance you're looking at. Mine has it in Greek as "gnopokibhut". :chuckle:

 

[Caille]

Stupid question.

Why does it even matter? Those who come to Him in submission are treated differently than those who deny, defy, and reject Him.:duh:

OK Brandon, I realize you ride the short bus, so I'll try and make it simple.

You wrote:

Jesus had no reason to call him any names, Julie.

I responded:

Did he come to him without sin ?

If he came to him with sin (unless you believe he was without sin ?) then Christ was perfectly justified in calling him names.

 

[beanieboy]

Do I necessarily have to actually show them or quote the verse, or can I rightly just call atheists fools?
So our namecalling must be strictly limited to those specifically used in the Bible?
Slut is out, but whore and whoremonger are in?
Faggot is out, but abomination, pervert, and sodomite are OK?
Is that what you're saying?

I think the point may be that:
It makes no sense to go from being unsaved, to being saved and then judging others as "fools" when you were that yourself once.
It makes little sense to go from putting your head down, crying for God's mercy, to then saying, "YOU are a sinner! YOU are disgusting!"

I think that you are arguing semantics, and that is not the point. The point is to approach another, realizing that you, too, have fallen short of the glory of God, and you have been shown mercy and forgiveness, and are commanded to do the same to others (even those who haven't repented). Jesus asked God to forgive his tormentors even without them asking for forgiveness.

Humility. I believe that is the point.

 

[Agape4Robin]

I do believe Paul used the Greek word "arsenokoitus" which is not a very nice word. (Look it up if you need to.) I do believe the word translated as "harlot" is used fairly often in God's Word.

Yes, the contexts are quite clear.

Why do you insist on going on with the idea that calling someone a faggot or a slut for that matter, is ok with you?

Do you call your friends who live together outside of marriage, or are having sex outside of marriage, fornicators? Whoremongers? Do you constanly tell them that they are going to hell if they don't get married?

How about the rest of you?

 

[Lovejoy]

Why do you insist on going on with the idea that calling someone a faggot or a slut for that matter, is ok with you?

Do you call your friends who live together outside of marriage, or are having sex outside of marriage, fornicators? Whoremongers? Do you constanly tell them that they are going to hell if they don't get married?

How about the rest of you?

I have never needed to, I don't believe. When I was "astray" I avoided my best friend almost completely. He was, and is, one of the most dear Christian men I have ever known. While he never verbalized a judgement against my behavior, neither did he ever live down to it or participate with it. He was able to issue conviction without ever saying a harsh word. It worked, too. I came around. All he needed was a perfectly spotless witness (try getting one of those, though). Now I try to do the same, by keeping my behavior at the standard that I see as appropriate. However, I do not let things I see as good be spoken of as evil, and vice versa. A few days ago, a lady in my class came up and told me about how her group was talking about me, and what a good man they think I am. She was amazed by it, because our little gossipy class hardly ever wastes breath on saying nice things. And all I had to do was try to live up to the standard of the One who is good, the One whom that praise truly belongs.

 

[Agape4Robin]

I have never needed to, I don't believe. When I was "astray" I avoided my best friend almost completely. He was, and is, one of the most dear Christian men I have ever known. While he never verbalized a judgement against my behavior, neither did he ever live down to it or participate with it. He was able to issue conviction without ever saying a harsh word. It worked, too. I came around. All he needed was a perfectly spotless witness (try getting one of those, though). Now I try to do the same, by keeping my behavior at the standard that I see as appropriate. However, I do not let things I see as good be spoken of as evil, and vice versa. A few days ago, a lady in my class came up and told me about how her group was talking about me, and what a good man they think I am. She was amazed by it, because our little gossipy class hardly ever wastes breath on saying nice things. And all I had to do was try to live up to the standard of the One who is good, the One whom that praise truly belongs.

Thank you Lovejoy, that is my point.

But it seems as though there are others on this thread who seem to think homosexuality is a more evil sin or something. What I think we miss is that to God, sin is sin and it is all detestable to Him.

When others are saying,"well I was a drunken moron and my friends told me so and I didn't like it, but boy, I straightened out my life." You are an example of what a Godly man, who lived his life for you to see, convicted you. No one needed to brow beat you and call you names. When you are in sin, and you realize it is sin, name calling will do nothing but drive a wedge between you and coming to Christ. No one likes to be on the defensive.
Let's leave the judging to God.

 

[Lighthouse]

If he came to him with sin (unless you believe he was without sin ?) then Christ was perfectly justified in calling him names.

1] He came to Him with sin.
2] He was repentant.
3] Christ is justified in all He does, because He never does anything unjustified.
4] It would have been unjustified to call a repentant person a name, because there is no reason to point out the sins of one who knows their sins, and that they are in need of a Savior.
5] The only one I know who points out the sins of those who knopw their sisn is the accuser, the adversary, Satan himself.

 

[Lighthouse]

Why do you insist on going on with the idea that calling someone a faggot or a slut for that matter, is ok with you?

Do you call your friends who live together outside of marriage, or are having sex outside of marriage, fornicators? Whoremongers? Do you constanly tell them that they are going to hell if they don't get married?

How about the rest of you?

Well, I'm going to, if he quits coming over with his girlfriend. Mainly because she's not a Christian, and what I have to say to him deals with being a Christia, so it would make no sense to her. Not at this point anyway.

I also noticed that if I talk about the wrongs I've done, some people will feel convicted, because I'm talking about changing my life, and they feel worse about their sin. It's odd. But, whatever works...

 

[Lighthouse]

Thank you Lovejoy, that is my point.

But it seems as though there are others on this thread who seem to think homosexuality is a more evil sin or something. What I think we miss is that to God, sin is sin and it is all detestable to Him.

It's more detestable to have homosexual sex, than to steal. Murder is worse than lying, isn't it?

Homosexuality is an abomination. And goes against every edict of God on sexual relationships. Sexual immorality in general is considered the sin to be most avoided, in the Bible. For it is more than a sin against God, and more than a sin against others. It is a sin against one's own body.

When others are saying,"well I was a drunken moron and my friends told me so and I didn't like it, but boy, I straightened out my life." You are an example of what a Godly man, who lived his life for you to see, convicted you. No one needed to brow beat you and call you names. When you are in sin, and you realize it is sin, name calling will do nothing but drive a wedge between you and coming to Christ. No one likes to be on the defensive.

So what if no one likes to be on the defensive? There are a lot of things people don't like. That doesn't mean it's a bad thing. Kids don't like getting spanked. But it's very corrective, which is great.

I have a friend who I talked to a few weeks ago, and got into how I wanted to change my life, and she was talking about how she wanted to change as well. So I suggested some things she should do. And I told her it would be hypocritical to do half of it, an not the other half. She told me I was just making her feel like a worse sinner, and to leave her alone. I didn't call her a slut, but she acted as if I had. So, seeing as how I get the same reaction either way, why not be blatantly honest?

Let's leave the judging to God.

No. Because God doesn't leave it to Himself. He told us to judge righteously.

 

[Caille]

1] He came to Him with sin.
2] He was repentant.
3] Christ is justified in all He does, because He never does anything unjustified.

:crackup: :crackup:

Brandon, maybe you should just stick to comic books.

4] It would have been unjustified to call a repentant person a name, because there is no reason to point out the sins of one who knows their sins, and that they are in need of a Savior.

Did he seek him out and upbraid him before he came to him repentant ?

5] The only one I know who points out the sins of those who knopw their sisn is the accuser, the adversary, Satan himself.

Again, Brandon, maybe you should stick to comic books.

 

[Lighthouse]

:crackup: :crackup:

Brandon, maybe you should just stick to comic books.

Why? What is wrong with what I said about Christ? Do you think He ever did anythign that was unjustified? Or are you resorting to insults, in an effort to draw attention away from the fact that you are losing this debate?

Did he seek him out and upbraid him before he came to him repentant ?

Who are we talking about, again? One of the Pharisees, was it. If so, then the answer is obviously, "Yes." Don't you read your Bible?

Again, Brandon, maybe you should stick to comic books.

If you don't like losing, maybe you should adjust to what is correct and true.

 

[Caille]

Why? What is wrong with what I said about Christ? Do you think He ever did anythign that was unjustified?

you do realize that your interpretation of the bible is just that. And that in order to try and make sense of it in your mind, you interpret it such that it always comes out justified, in your perception ? It's called circular logic. Look it up sometime.

Or are you resorting to insults, in an effort to draw attention away from the fact that you are losing this debate?

:chuckle: man, ain't that the pot calling the kettle black

Who are we talking about, again? One of the Pharisees, was it. If so, then the answer is obviously, "Yes." Don't you read your Bible?

:shocked: Wow - maybe we're finally getting somewhere. And what did Jesus upbraid him for ? (hint: obstructing the path to God) Did he condemn him for any of his other sins ? Or was he sinless, besides obstructing the path to God ?

If you don't like losing, maybe you should adjust to what is correct and true.

back to your comic books, child


1Cor.13
[11] When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

 

[Lighthouse]

you do realize that your interpretation of the bible is just that. And that in order to try and make sense of it in your mind, you interpret it such that it always comes out justified, in your perception ? It's called circular logic. Look it up sometime.

No matter what either of us think, can we not agree that Jesus was never unjustified? If not, then you are not a Christian.

:chuckle: man, ain't that the pot calling the kettle black

I've enver done it because I'm losing a debate. I've done it because people keep saying the same thing over and over again. Ask keypurr.

:shocked: Wow - maybe we're finally getting somewhere. And what did Jesus upbraid him for ? (hint: obstructing the path to God) Did he condemn him for any of his other sins ? Or was he sinless, besides obstructing the path to God ?

Yes, He did. His pride, for one. And what about the men who brought the woman caught in adultery?

back to your comic books, child

Do you have any idea what art and storytelling are? I read things like The Watchmen and The Punisher...

1Cor.13
[11] When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

What are you calling childish?

 

[julie21]

Lighthouse: post #193 :
4] It would have been unjustified to call a repentant person a name, because there is no reason to point out the sins of one who knows their sins, and that they are in need of a Savior.
5] The only one I know who points out the sins of those who knopw their sisn is the accuser, the adversary, Satan himself.

So with your post # 4 above...how 'justified' are you in pointing out the past sins of one who knows their past sins, has repented and come to Christ because they knew they needed a Savior?

Would you also like to clarify exactly point number 5 from your post quoted above for me please?

See, the way that I interpret what YOU wrote, is this...
There is only one being who points out the sins of those who knows their sin...and that being is the accuser, satan himself.
Is that correct?

And as far as I have determined from my studies, as well as lengthy discussion, satan will point out these sins that have been forgiven by Christ, once we come to repentance through faith and belief that His blood on the cross has washed us clean.
That is why we need the "Helmet of salvation", because satan will point out our past sins as a way to make us think we are not saved, that our 'past' sins still count against us with Christ, that we are sluts or whores, or whatever.

So satan is the ONLY one to do this is he Lighthouse?..
Food for thought there, I think.