Should We Have Women Pastors Today ?

[Rodger]

If you are looking for what people want, then you will get the answer that women Deacons and Pastors are just as good as men so why not.

If on the other hand you want to know what God says then He tell us in 1 Timothy 3:1-3........(KJV)
"This is a true saying, If a "man" desire the office of a bishop, "he" desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, "the husband of one wife," vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous".

There is perhaps no more hotly debated issue in the church today than the issue of women serving as pastors. As a result, it is very important to not see this issue as men versus women so do not think that I am taking sides! There are women who believe women should not serve as pastors and that the Bible places restrictions on the ministry of women, and there are men who believe women can serve as pastors and that there are no restrictions on women in ministry. This is not an issue of chauvinism or discrimination. It is an issue of biblical interpretation.

 

[ok doser]

Nope

 

[Clete]

This is not an issue of chauvinism or discrimination. It is an issue of biblical interpretation.

How would you answer the one who would say that you're making a false dichotomy here; that the bible is chauvinistic and discriminatory?

 

[Rodger]

How would you answer the one who would say that you're making a false dichotomy here; that the bible is chauvinistic and discriminatory?

I would answer with the Word of God............1 Timothy 3:1-2

"This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a [a]bishop, he desires a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach".

Now, what I think does not matter. What God thinks and said is all that I am saying here.

 

[Rodger]

Nope

So then........you are completely rejecting the Word of God because you are a woman?

Are you comfortable with that choice.?????

Now, what if some wanted to remove Scriptures that you do like. Would that be OK as well?

 

[ok doser]

So then........you are completely rejecting the Word of God because you are a woman?

Are you comfortable with that choice.?????

Now, what if some wanted to remove Scriptures that you do like. Would that be OK as well?

 

[Clete]

I would answer with the Word of God............1 Timothy 3:1-2

"This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a [a]bishop, he desires a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach".

Now, what I think does not matter. What God thinks and said is all that I am saying here.

So, you wouldn't respond at all.

Thanks for the stimulating back and forth!

 

[Rodger]

So, you wouldn't respond at all.

Thanks for the stimulating back and forth!

You want me to respond to......................
"How would you answer the one who would say that you're making a false dichotomy here; that the bible is chauvinistic and discriminatory?"

That is your pressing question?

NO! The Bible is Christ centric and has NO discrimination.

Did the Lord Jesus Christ tell Paul what to write? Is Jesus Christ God ?

The Bible records real history and history says that humanity has been male dominated.
Simply stated..... while the Bible defines different roles for each gender, each role is viewed as having equal importance and value.

 

[Rodger]

I guess you think that is cute, but it does not answer the question now does it.

YOU either read, believe and accept the Word of God, or you post comedy responses.

 

[Clete]

You want me to respond to......................
"How would you answer the one who would say that you're making a false dichotomy here; that the bible is chauvinistic and discriminatory?"

That is your pressing question?

Now, who's being hostile?!

No, it isn't "my question". It is, however, the point of the thread!

NO! The Bible is Christ centric and has NO discrimination.

Did the Lord Jesus Christ tell Paul what to write? Is Jesus Christ God ?

The Bible records real history and history says that humanity has been male dominated.
Simply stated..... while the Bible defines different roles for each gender, each role is viewed as having equal importance and value.

Because you say so?

Come on man! Put some effort into it! I'm already in agreement with you and you can't even convince me!

Pretend that some leftist, female pastor of a Disciple of Christ church told you that all you're doing is perpetuating outdated, outmoded patriarchal stereotypes that the world out grew over the last century or so and that no longer have any proper place in today's church.

Could you prove her wrong or is it just your word against hers?

You aren't going to get anywhere with such a person by telling them what the bible says. You will have to get into WHY it says what it says. Do you know why? Do you understand the underlying principles of why God says to do things a certain way? While, "because God said so" is sufficient for our obedience, it isn't the deeper answer that is going to convince anyone who disagrees nor edify anyone who happens to participate in the discussion.

 

[ok doser]

I guess you think that is cute, but it does not answer the question now does it.

My post was in response to the question you asked in your thread title. Go back and reread it in that context.

 

[Tambora]

Nope

So then........you are completely rejecting the Word of God because you are a woman?

Are you comfortable with that choice.?????

Now, what if some wanted to remove Scriptures that you do like. Would that be OK as well?

Perhaps this is a good test to show you that you should not be a pastor of a church assembly since you are so quick to criticize and judge without knowledge.

Ok Doser is not a woman.
And his "nope" response was to the thread title question.

 

[Hoping]

If you are looking for what people want, then you will get the answer that women Deacons and Pastors are just as good as men so why not.

If on the other hand you want to know what God says then He tell us in 1 Timothy 3:1-3........(KJV)
"This is a true saying, If a "man" desire the office of a bishop, "he" desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, "the husband of one wife," vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous".

There is perhaps no more hotly debated issue in the church today than the issue of women serving as pastors. As a result, it is very important to not see this issue as men versus women so do not think that I am taking sides! There are women who believe women should not serve as pastors and that the Bible places restrictions on the ministry of women, and there are men who believe women can serve as pastors and that there are no restrictions on women in ministry. This is not an issue of chauvinism or discrimination. It is an issue of biblical interpretation.

I'm surprised you didn't include 2 Tim 2:12..."But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

 

[Rodger]

Now, who's being hostile?!

No, it isn't "my question". It is, however, the point of the thread!


Because you say so?

Come on man! Put some effort into it! I'm already in agreement with you and you can't even convince me!

Pretend that some leftist, female pastor of a Disciple of Christ church told you that all you're doing is perpetuating outdated, outmoded patriarchal stereotypes that the world out grew over the last century or so and that no longer have any proper place in today's church.

Could you prove her wrong or is it just your word against hers?

You aren't going to get anywhere with such a person by telling them what the bible says. You will have to get into WHY it says what it says. Do you know why? Do you understand the underlying principles of why God says to do things a certain way? While, "because God said so" is sufficient for our obedience, it isn't the deeper answer that is going to convince anyone who disagrees nor edify anyone who happens to participate in the discussion.

You did not ask me WHY God said it now did you?

Now that you have asked I will be glad to respond.

In 1 Timothy 2:12-14 we read one of the reasons...........
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.”

Paul says that women are forbidden to teach or exercise authority over men in the church. It’s important to understand that Paul does not prohibit women from teaching in all contexts, only from teaching the Bible to men in the church.

Notice that Paul prohibits women from doing two distinct things.

First, women may not teach the Bible to men in the church.

Second, women may not exercise authority over men in the church.

Teaching and exercising authority in the church are the two primary responsibilities of elders, pastors, or bishops. Thus, women are not to hold the office of pastor, but neither are they to perform these particular functions of a pastor over men in the church.

So then to respond to YOU......WHY is that the case????

#1.
The creation order is the first reason Paul gives for prohibiting women from teaching or exercising authority in the church.
Paul doesn’t ground his command in cultural considerations or a particular problem with the women in the Ephesian church. Rather, he grounds his command in creation. He says that the reason women are not to teach or exercise authority over men in the church is that, “Adam was formed first, then Eve”. Paul means that God established Adam as the head and authority of his wife, Eve. God designed men to lead. That equals Federal Headship or Authority.

#2. The nature of women is the second reason Paul gives for prohibiting them from teaching or exercising authority in the church.
Paul says, “Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor” (1 Tim 2:14).
Paul is saying something about the natural constitution of men and women, that men as a class are naturally more fitted to teach and have authority in the church, but women are not. Wayne Grudem says, “This is by far the most common viewpoint in the history of the interpretation of this passage”.
Source: (Evangelical Feminism & Biblical Truth 70).

But why are women naturally more likely to be deceived than men? It’s true that not all women are more likely to be deceived than all men. And it’s true that some men are more likely to be deceived than some women. But most interpreters in the history of the church have understood this passage to teach that, in general, women are more likely to be deceived than men.

Does that answer your question?

 

[Rodger]

I'm surprised you didn't include 2 Tim 2:12..."But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

I was hoping that someone would do what you just did!

Thanks!

 

[Rodger]

Perhaps this is a good test to show you that you should not be a pastor of a church assembly since you are so quick to criticize and judge without knowledge.

Ok Doser is not a woman.
And his "nope" response was to the thread title question.

Then I guess he should not use the moniker of "Granny" then.

So then, my responce to "NOPE" would in fact be the same. Who or what he is does not alter what was said. Right???

 

[Rodger]

My post was in response to the question you asked in your thread title. Go back and reread it in that context.

I only saw the picture you use as your call. It is of the Granny from TV show so I thought you were a woman.

As for your answer,.........NOPE would mean that you think women should be Pastors and the Bible says NO so my responce would be the same.

 

[Tambora]

Then I guess he should not use the moniker of "Granny" then.

Your logic is flawed.
If one uses a pic of their favorite dog then you shouldn't assume they are a dog.

So then, my responce to "NOPE" would in fact be the same. Who or what he is does not alter what was said. Right???

He said "nope" to the thread title question which is: Should We Have Women Pastors Today?
And you falsely accused him of rejecting the word of God and wanting to remove scripture.
And now you just want to make excuses for jumping to conclusions without knowledge.

 

[ok doser]

Your logic is flawed.
If one uses a pic of their favorite dog then you shouldn't assume they are a dog.

For quite a while I was using this one or something like it. I don't think anybody was dimwitted enough to believe that I was really a big purple dinosaur.

He said "nope" to the thread title question which is: Should We Have Women Pastors Today?
And you falsely accused him of rejecting the word of God and wanting to remove scripture.
And now you just want to make excuses for jumping to conclusions without knowledge.

Not sure Rodger is playing with a full deck.

 

[Rodger]

Your logic is flawed.
If one uses a pic of their favorite dog then you shouldn't assume they are a dog.



He said "nope" to the thread title question which is: Should We Have Women Pastors Today?
And you falsely accused him of rejecting the word of God and wanting to remove scripture.
And now you just want to make excuses for jumping to conclusions without knowledge.

OK.
I admitt it was a mistake. Thank you for pointing it out to me.

The answer of NOPE in responce to "SHould women be pastors" which is 100% in difference to the Scriptures posted, is NOT in any way a false accusation. It was a fact.

Thanks for your opinion.

Can we move on from your critique and on to the question asked in the thread. Do YOU have an opinion?