Should Taste Death For Every Man

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
This verse says nothing about being "in Him." The verse you are quoting is in regard to Colossians 1:16-17:

"For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together" (Col.1:16-17).​

Now I have answered you it is your time to answer me about these words of the LORD where He gives Paul a commission to preach to the Gentiles:

"...delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom I send thee, to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me" (Acts 26:17-18).​

Here we can see that the LORD sent Paul to the Gentiles so "that they may receive remission of sins."

How could it be possible for those Gentiles to have their sins taken away if you are right and all of men's sins had already been taken away at the Cross?


Nothing is yours until you enter in.

"Therefore if any man be "IN CHRIST", he is a new creation" 2 Corinthians 5:17.

We receive remission of sins when we enter in because we are now "IN CHRIST". God seals us with the Holy Spirit and places us "IN CHRIST".

Did not Christ defeat sin, death and the devil and open the gates of heaven so that... "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Nothing is yours until you enter in.

"Therefore if any man be "IN CHRIST", he is a new creation" 2 Corinthians 5:17.

The verse which you quoted said nothing about anything being "in Christ."

Have you yet not noticed that?

Now I have answered you it is your time to answer me about these words of the LORD where He gives Paul a commission to preach to the Gentiles:

"...delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom I send thee, to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me" (Acts 26:17-18).​

Here we can see that the LORD sent Paul to the Gentiles so "that they may receive remission of sins."

How could it be possible for those Gentiles to have their sins taken away if you are right and all of men's sins had already been taken away at the Cross?
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
We have to realize that the Gospel was not fully or correctly known for some time after the resurrection of Jesus.

Why did you never answer what I said about that comment of yours? Here are my remarks and perhaps this time you will actually address it:

So even though Peter had received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost to guide him in all truth he was in error when he said this?:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:38).​

According to you all men's sins were taken away at the Cross so no one had to believe in order to have their sins taken away!

And I guess that you will say that Paul was in error when he placed the taking away of sins in the future in this passage:

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins" (Ro.11:26-27).​

How can sins be taken away in the future if the sins of all people were expiated at the Cross?

Will you answer that?
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
exactly, Robert. and many other scriptures-

So you are in agreement with Robert when he asserted that Peter was in error when he said this?:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:38).​
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Why did you never answer what I said about that comment of yours? Here are my remarks and perhaps this time you will actually address it:

So even though Peter had received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost to guide him in all truth he was in error when he said this?:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:38).​

According to you all men's sins were taken away at the Cross so no one had to believe in order to have their sins taken away!

And I guess that you will say that Paul was in error when he placed the taking away of sins in the future in this passage:

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins" (Ro.11:26-27).​

How can sins be taken away in the future if the sins of all people were expiated at the Cross?

Will you answer that?


I believe what the Bible says.

The Bible teaches thay Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil, Colossians 2:15.

And that because of that, God has made Jesus both Lord and Christ, Acts 2:36.

When God accepted Jesus into heaven and crowned him as the "KING OF KINGS AND THE LORD OF LORDS" Revelation 19:16. It was because he had defeated sin, death and the devil.

God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ.

"Wherefore God has highly exalted him and has given him a name which is above every name. That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow of things in heaven and things in the earth and things under the earth and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" Philippians 2:9, 10, 11.

Jesus is Lord because he has defeated sin, death and the devil and has reconciled the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Let us look at this verse and the Greek word translated "for":

"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for (hyper) every man" (Heb.2:9).

In this verse the Greek word hyper is translated "for" and one of the meanings of that word is "on behalf of." In Vine's we read the following definition of the Greek word hyper: " 'on behalf of,' is to be distinguished from 'anti,' 'instead of'" (Vine's Expository Dictionary of the New Testament).

That explains the following translation of Hebrews 2:9:

"Jesus was made a little lower than the angels, but we see him crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death. Through God's kindness he died on behalf of everyone" (Heb.2:9; GOD'S WORD Translation).​

In the Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges we read " 'on behalf of' (hyper), not 'as a substitution for' (anti)" (Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges, Commentary at Hebrews 2:9).

So we can understand that Christ tasted death on behalf of every man but not as a substitute for every man. Now let us look at this verse:

"Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for (anti) many" (Mt.20:28).​

One of the meanings of the Greek word anti is "offical substitution, instead of" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

So we can see that Christ tasted death on behalf of every man but He only died as a substitution of many but not all.

He died on behalf of all men but only those who believe in Him will receive the blessings which flow from the Cross.

False Teaching. All for whom Christ died have been sanctified and perfected by His death/offering Heb 10:10-14 !
 

beloved57

Well-known member
I believe what the Bible says.

The Bible teaches thay Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil, Colossians 2:15.

And that because of that, God has made Jesus both Lord and Christ, Acts 2:36.

When God accepted Jesus into heaven and crowned him as the "KING OF KINGS AND THE LORD OF LORDS" Revelation 19:16. It was because he had defeated sin, death and the devil.

God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ.

"Wherefore God has highly exalted him and has given him a name which is above every name. That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow of things in heaven and things in the earth and things under the earth and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" Philippians 2:9, 10, 11.

Jesus is Lord because he has defeated sin, death and the devil and has reconciled the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

You teach that those Christ died for, shall still wind up in hell for their sins in unbelief ! Unbelief gives the devil the victory over Christ in your teaching ! Thats because the devil is the author of unbelief Lk 8:12

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

So you dont believe what you preach !
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I believe what the Bible says.

You do not believe what Peter said here:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:38).​

According to you Peter did not have a full grasp of the gospel so what he said there was completely wrong. According to you he was just ignorant and therefore he made a gigantic blunder.

All I can see from you is the fact that you believe some things in the Bible but you do not believe the verses which contradict your mistaken ideas. Next you will be arguing that the LORD was in error about what he said here when He gives Paul a commission to preach to the Gentiles:

"...delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom I send thee, to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me" (Acts 26:17-18).​

Here we can see that the LORD sent Paul to the Gentiles so "that they may receive remission of sins."

How could it be possible for those Gentiles to have their sins taken away if you are right and all of men's sins had already been taken away at the Cross?

Was the LORD in error when He told Paul that?
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
You do not believe what Peter said here:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:38).​

According to you Peter did not have a full grasp of the gospel so what he said there was completely wrong. According to you he was just ignorant and therefore he made a gigantic blunder.

All I can see from you is the fact that you believe some things in the Bible but you do not believe the verses which contradict your mistaken ideas. Next you will be arguing that the LORD was in error about what he said here when He gives Paul a commission to preach to the Gentiles:

"...delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom I send thee, to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me" (Acts 26:17-18).​

Here we can see that the LORD sent Paul to the Gentiles so "that they may receive remission of sins."

How could it be possible for those Gentiles to have their sins taken away if you are right and all of men's sins had already been taken away at the Cross?

Was the LORD in error when He told Paul that?

anyone that does not believe, will not see salvation no matter their righteous works or unspeakable sins
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
anyone that does not believe, will not see salvation no matter their righteous works or unspeakable sins

I do not see how that has anything at all to do with what I said.

I am still waiting an answer to what I asked you earlier:

So you are in agreement with Robert when he asserted that Peter was in error when he said this?:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:38).​
 

beloved57

Well-known member
You do not believe what Peter said here:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:38).​

According to you Peter did not have a full grasp of the gospel so what he said there was completely wrong. According to you he was just ignorant and therefore he made a gigantic blunder.

All I can see from you is the fact that you believe some things in the Bible but you do not believe the verses which contradict your mistaken ideas. Next you will be arguing that the LORD was in error about what he said here when He gives Paul a commission to preach to the Gentiles:

"...delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom I send thee, to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me" (Acts 26:17-18).​

Here we can see that the LORD sent Paul to the Gentiles so "that they may receive remission of sins."

How could it be possible for those Gentiles to have their sins taken away if you are right and all of men's sins had already been taken away at the Cross?

Was the LORD in error when He told Paul that?

More error, receiving remission of sins is not the same thing as God taking them away ! You are confused !
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
More error, receiving remission of sins is not the same thing as God taking them away ! You are confused !

The primary meaning of the Greek verb translated "remit" is "to send away" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

So the phrase "remission of sins" means "the sending away of sins."

In the Scofield Study Bible we read:

"The Greek word here translated ''remission' is elsewhere rendered 'forgiveness.' It means to 'send off' or 'away.' And this, throughout Scripture, is the one fundamental meaning of forgiveness--to separate the sin from the sinner" (note at Matthew 26:28).​
 

beloved57

Well-known member
The primary meaning of the Greek verb translated "remit" is "to send away" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

So the phrase "remission of sins" means "the sending away of sins."

Receiving remission of sins is different from them being taken away! Christ's Death /Blood took them away! That occurred before they who received it had a being!
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Receiving remission of sins is different from them being taken away!

Of course you think that you know more about the Greek language than do the recognized Greek experts.

Christ's Death /Blood took them away! That occurred before they who received it had a being!

Since the remission of sins happened as a result of a person believing then you cannot possibly be right that it happened before a person comes into existence:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:38).

You and your ideas are divorced from reality.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Of course you think that you know more about the Greek language than do the recognized Greek experts.



If the remission of sins happened as a result of a person believing then you cannot possibly be right that it happened before a person was in existence:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:38).

You and your ideas are divorced from reality.
You don't understand words!
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I can only surmise that Robert Pate had no answer to my points and since he did not want to admit that he just disappeared.

The last we heard from him he said that Peter did not fully understand the gospel for some time after he received it and therefore he was in error when he said this:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:43).​

I just can't believe that Robert can be right, especially when we consider the fact that Peter received the Holy Spirit to guide him in all truth before he preached a gospel.
 
Top