C
cattyfan
Guest
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PureX
Well-known member
The problem is that we don't all agree on what we should be ashamed of. Berta, here, thinks it's good that people are not humiliated for their race, but that they should be humiliated for their sexual orientation if it disagrees with her own. But Berta's opinions aren't the yardstick by which all humanity is judged, and thank God for that!
The truth is that, like it or not, WE have to decide FOR OURSELVES what we should be ashamed of, and what not to be. And we can't do that well unless we're taught what all the choices are and what are the real consequences of those choices. The only solution is better education. Forced religion and social humiliation is not going to work. It never worked, and it never will work. This imaginary 50s TV sitcom view of the world is nothing but a fantasy. It never existed and it's never going to exist. If Christians really want to help bring about the kingdom, they need to start doing the exact opposite of what they have always been inclined to do. They need to stop trying to control and manipulate other people and begin offering them positive and realistic choices instead, and then they need to LET THEM CHOOSE FOR THEMSELVES. Almost everyone will make good decisions in life once they can finally see what they are. If you have to resort to shaming and humiliating and manipulating other people, you're just as lost as those you purport to save.
The truth is that, like it or not, WE have to decide FOR OURSELVES what we should be ashamed of, and what not to be. And we can't do that well unless we're taught what all the choices are and what are the real consequences of those choices. The only solution is better education. Forced religion and social humiliation is not going to work. It never worked, and it never will work. This imaginary 50s TV sitcom view of the world is nothing but a fantasy. It never existed and it's never going to exist. If Christians really want to help bring about the kingdom, they need to start doing the exact opposite of what they have always been inclined to do. They need to stop trying to control and manipulate other people and begin offering them positive and realistic choices instead, and then they need to LET THEM CHOOSE FOR THEMSELVES. Almost everyone will make good decisions in life once they can finally see what they are. If you have to resort to shaming and humiliating and manipulating other people, you're just as lost as those you purport to save.
wickwoman
New member
It seems the author of this article is a proponent of negative reinforcement and my argument is that it never has worked. Though she sees the society of the past as some idyllic existence where people accepted blame, and thinks the ill now is that we do not.
The problem is with thinking blame is a solution to troubles. It only makes things worse. We don't need to blame anyone when our son dies in a car accident. We should accept the tragedy of his death, morn him, and move on. Sure, if there was a perpetrator who committed a wrong and will do so in the future, he should be prevented from doing so. But, the idea that we should sue the driver who accidentally killed him so that we can receive money is disgusting. And this is what we've come to with the blame game, money rights wrongs. It never has. It never will.
So, when things happen, like the 911 tragedy, it was clear who committed the wrong. But, also Mr. Falwell, or whoever it was, thought that also someone should speak to the issue of whether americans deserved to have such a thing happen to them. His answer was yes, because of moral decline, feminists, pagans and gays. That is equally disgusting. The perpetrators should be caught, brought to justice and prevented from doing so in the future. But this dicussion of who deserved to be wrong this way or not is a slap in the face.
So, in actuality, the authors mindset is what gives rise to the problems she is complaining of. She is not ready to be done with blame, accept the world as it is, and move on. She wants to find someone to blame. And, her idea is we should blame ourselves. How about blame nobody? How about accepting that things have changed and find a way to make it better?
I would argue that the decline in America's morality and responsibility for actions is not due to a lack of blame. It is due to the results of blame, a low self esteem, a disconnection from the Source within us. An idea, that we are bad and must be redeemed. It's the self fulfilling prophecy idea.
And, the idea that race is an acceptable protected class but homosexuals are not, is just another way of blaming someone who has nothing to do with anything. Homosexuality has nothing to do with the decline in America's morality, other than the very stark fact that it brings out the very lowest and worst of many Christians and other moralists who wish to force their morality on the rest of the world.
If you want to see the world as a better place, the best place to start is to begin being more mindful of your own life. If you want peace, are you a peaceable person? If you want love, are you loving? And we all need to slow down a bit. The cell phones need to be off during dinner. And the TV needs to be off for a few hours too. We need to sit in the quiet and get to know this being we call me. And we will discover that nobody needs to accept blame. We need to give up blame forever.
The problem is with thinking blame is a solution to troubles. It only makes things worse. We don't need to blame anyone when our son dies in a car accident. We should accept the tragedy of his death, morn him, and move on. Sure, if there was a perpetrator who committed a wrong and will do so in the future, he should be prevented from doing so. But, the idea that we should sue the driver who accidentally killed him so that we can receive money is disgusting. And this is what we've come to with the blame game, money rights wrongs. It never has. It never will.
So, when things happen, like the 911 tragedy, it was clear who committed the wrong. But, also Mr. Falwell, or whoever it was, thought that also someone should speak to the issue of whether americans deserved to have such a thing happen to them. His answer was yes, because of moral decline, feminists, pagans and gays. That is equally disgusting. The perpetrators should be caught, brought to justice and prevented from doing so in the future. But this dicussion of who deserved to be wrong this way or not is a slap in the face.
So, in actuality, the authors mindset is what gives rise to the problems she is complaining of. She is not ready to be done with blame, accept the world as it is, and move on. She wants to find someone to blame. And, her idea is we should blame ourselves. How about blame nobody? How about accepting that things have changed and find a way to make it better?
I would argue that the decline in America's morality and responsibility for actions is not due to a lack of blame. It is due to the results of blame, a low self esteem, a disconnection from the Source within us. An idea, that we are bad and must be redeemed. It's the self fulfilling prophecy idea.
And, the idea that race is an acceptable protected class but homosexuals are not, is just another way of blaming someone who has nothing to do with anything. Homosexuality has nothing to do with the decline in America's morality, other than the very stark fact that it brings out the very lowest and worst of many Christians and other moralists who wish to force their morality on the rest of the world.
If you want to see the world as a better place, the best place to start is to begin being more mindful of your own life. If you want peace, are you a peaceable person? If you want love, are you loving? And we all need to slow down a bit. The cell phones need to be off during dinner. And the TV needs to be off for a few hours too. We need to sit in the quiet and get to know this being we call me. And we will discover that nobody needs to accept blame. We need to give up blame forever.
wickwoman
New member
Dear Sozo:
Tolerance is just that, tolerance. It is accepting what is. As far as approval goes, that's a different issue. Step #1 is to accept what exists, Step #2 is to look for this issue in your own life and remedy it first, Step #3 is to improve the world. But there are certain things that don't need improving, just accepting.
Tolerance is just that, tolerance. It is accepting what is. As far as approval goes, that's a different issue. Step #1 is to accept what exists, Step #2 is to look for this issue in your own life and remedy it first, Step #3 is to improve the world. But there are certain things that don't need improving, just accepting.
C
cattyfan
Guest
I notice that those who reacted negatively to the article immediately focused on homosexuality.
Ignore that issue for the moment.
I'm wondering how you think people should feel when they do something that is wrong...don't you think they should have the humility to feel embarrassed by their bad behavior?
And blame isn't a solution for a problem, but it is an indicator of where to begin to fix the problem. You need to be able to identify what's wrong and where it comes from if you expect to reverse it.
Ignore that issue for the moment.
I'm wondering how you think people should feel when they do something that is wrong...don't you think they should have the humility to feel embarrassed by their bad behavior?
And blame isn't a solution for a problem, but it is an indicator of where to begin to fix the problem. You need to be able to identify what's wrong and where it comes from if you expect to reverse it.
I don't have a mission. You people do. I take care of myself and love my friends, my family, and my neighbors. Other than that, no skin off my nose.
In any event, other than your mystical "prayers," what have you ever done personally to advance the kingdom of your Lord?
:duh:
PureX
Well-known member
If someone thinks they did something wrong, they will naturally regret it. If they don't regret it, they probably don't really think it was wrong.
I think what's bothering you and Berta is that other people don't regret doing things that YOU feel are wrong. But you have to accept that no one has placed you in charge of what other people should feel is wrong, or what other people should regret having done. Once you finally accept this, it won't bother you so much that other people don't believe that the same things are wrong as you do, and so will not regret doing them.
You're only going to be able to "fix" what's wrong if it's something wrong with you (even then, it might not be possible). All you can do about the wrongs of others is to not blame yourself for them, and then forgive them. That probably isn't going to change them, though, and you'll just have to accept that.