Sexual Orientation is not a Choice

[Arthur Brain]

You believe in immutable "orientations." There's no reason to believe in that nonsense. When I say it is destructive for a person to define himself by his physical desires, I am denouncing heterosexuality and homosexuality. Orientations are an accidental deception. This concept of building your identity around taste in partners didn't even exist before the late 1800's.

Well, sorry to burst your bubble here but some of us do have immutable orientations or put another label on that if you like. There is absolutely no way on this earth that I could "choose" to start finding blokes attractive on an intimate level on any sort whatsoever. De nada, zilch, zero etc. I did not "choose" to be exclusively attracted to the opposite sex.

I'm not particularly a one for labels but when one fits I've no problem with it. On a romantic/sexual level then "straight"/"heterosexual" etc works for me because that encapsulates that side of myself. It doesn't define anybody as a person overall is more than that.

 

[glassjester]

Well, sorry to burst your bubble here but some of us do have immutable orientations

Not according to the American Psychiatric Association.

Sexual orientation is a relatively new concept. In fact, although same sex behavior has always existed, the idea of a homosexual identity or a homosexual person is only about 100 years old.

The concept of sexual orientation refers to more than sexual behavior. It includes feelings as well as identity. Some individuals may identify themselves as gay lesbian or bisexual without engaging in any sexual activity. Some people believe that sexual orientation is innate and fixed; however, sexual orientation develops across a person’s lifetime.

Of course, you know better than them... don't you?



This is getting repetitive. lain:

 

[glassjester]

Well, sorry to burst your bubble here but some of us do have immutable orientations

The APA specifically says "orientations" are not innate and fixed (immutable).


On what grounds do you base your statement to the contrary?

This is a question worth thinking about. Don't let your pop-culture-based assumptions go unquestioned.

 

[CabinetMaker]

I read your whole post.
Your objection to homosexual behavior was very specifically targeted to Christian behavior.

Based on the post you claim to have read, why did I say what I did?

 

[genuineoriginal]

No. Next...

Then why do you believe a man is born with homosexual?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Based on the post you claim to have read, why did I say what I did?

You said it because you don't unable understand that having a "homosexual lifestyle" is a barrier to knowing Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

 

[CabinetMaker]

You said it because you don't unable understand that having a "homosexual lifestyle" is a barrier to knowing Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

If you read my post, and it does not look like you did, you failed to understand what I said.

 

[PureX]

The APA specifically says "orientations" are not innate and fixed (immutable).

The issue is far more complex and variable then that statement acknowledges. The APA "says" a great many things, none of which are intended to be taken as a singular absolute, and many of which will likely contradict each other relative to context. If you really don't already know this, you should. And if you do, then you're being disingenuous.

 

[TracerBullet]

Not according to the American Psychiatric Association.



Of course, you know better than them... don't you?



This is getting repetitive. lain:

quote mining.


here is the full quote from the APA:

"The concept of sexual orientation refers to more than sexual behavior. It includes feelings as well as identity. Some individuals may identify themselves as gay lesbian or bisexual without engaging in any sexual activity. Some people believe that sexual orientation is innate and fixed; however, sexual orientation develops across a person’s lifetime. Individuals maybe become aware at different points in their lives that they are heterosexual, gay, lesbian, or bisexual."

 

[TracerBullet]

The APA specifically says "orientations" are not innate and fixed (immutable).

no, the APA does not say that

 

[Arthur Brain]

Not according to the American Psychiatric Association.



Of course, you know better than them... don't you?



This is getting repetitive. lain:

The APA specifically says "orientations" are not innate and fixed (immutable).


On what grounds do you base your statement to the contrary?

This is a question worth thinking about. Don't let your pop-culture-based assumptions go unquestioned.

The same APA that once held homosexuality to be a mental illness and then changed their mind? Do you accept everything they say as verbatim?

Also, if you looked at what I said I said that for some of us it's immutable. I strongly suspect it's that way for most but possibly not for all. I've already explained to you why but you simply won't listen. So has Rusha and others. Here goes one more time. I am exclusively attracted to the opposite sex. I had/have no choice in that, no say in it whatsoever. There is zero possibility of my even being able to entertain the notion of romantic/sexual relations with another man, de nada, squat, nil, nought, '0' etc. Now is that now clear enough?

There's no 'pop psychology' about it.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Then why do you believe a man is born with homosexual?

Because there's an obvious difference between women marrying Ferris wheels and the like and being born with an inherent orientation.

 

[genuineoriginal]

If you read my post, and it does not look like you did, you failed to understand what I said.

I read your post.
You just do not seem to understand the implications of your words.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Because there's an obvious difference between women marrying Ferris wheels and the like and being born with an inherent orientation.

There is no difference.

 

[glassjester]

quote mining.


here is the full quote from the APA:

"The concept of sexual orientation refers to more than sexual behavior. It includes feelings as well as identity. Some individuals may identify themselves as gay lesbian or bisexual without engaging in any sexual activity. Some people believe that sexual orientation is innate and fixed; however, sexual orientation develops across a person’s lifetime. Individuals may become aware at different points in their lives that they are heterosexual, gay, lesbian, or bisexual."

You understand the word "however," yes?

Let's talk more about this: Individuals may become aware at different points in their lives that they are heterosexual, gay, lesbian, or bisexual.

This means a person could think their innate, immutable orientation is heterosexual at one time, and later become aware that their innate, immutable orientation is actually homosexual. Right?

 

[glassjester]

I strongly suspect it's that way for most but possibly not for all.

So it's possible that some people can change their innate, immutable orientation. Okie dokie.

 

[Arthur Brain]

There is no difference.

Of course there is but I realize you're rather whacko on subjects like this.

 

[Arthur Brain]

So it's possible that some people can change their innate, immutable orientation. Okie dokie.

That isn't what I said in the slightest if you go back and read. No, it isn't possible if you have an innate, immutable orientation to "choose" to change it. That's why I identify as heterosexual as it's only women I am and are capable of being attracted to.

There may be some people who don't have a hardwired, innate immutable orientation which is not saying the same thing as you're suggesting I said at all.

 

[glassjester]

That isn't what I said in the slightest if you go back and read. No, it isn't possible if you have an innate, immutable orientation to "choose" to change it. That's why I identify as heterosexual as it's only women I am and are capable of being attracted to.

There may be some people who don't have a hardwired, innate immutable orientation which is not saying the same thing as you're suggesting I said at all.

Ok. So we assume it's "hardwired" for anyone that doesn't ever change their orientation.

And when people do change their orientation, then it's only them for whom orientation is not "hardwired." Had they not changed, we would still assume it was "hardwired."

In other words, you have a belief - namely, that orientation is innate and does not change. When evidence contradicts your belief, rather than admit your belief was wrong, you simply claim those people are the exception to your infallible belief.

How many exceptions must their be for the rule to be wrong?



Based on your knowledge of the topic:
What percentage of people with a homosexual orientation have it "hardwired"?
Is it possible that, of the non-hardwired variety of homosexual, some decide not to change it? In this case, how would you ever know it wasn't "hardwired"?

 

[gcthomas]

So it's possible that some people can change their innate, immutable orientation. Okie dokie.

The stuff you've quoted makes no reference to homosexuality being under any sort of conscious influence or control.

So, unless I've missed something you are claiming that since sexuality develops over time then it is a choice. Is that what you're saying?

If it is, then you will need to provide at least a tiny bit of evidence to support your position. Because at the moment you have given none.