Scripture. What is considered Scripture?

[Jacob]

Should we start with the Torah? Were these the first writings or the first writings accepted? When was it given this name? What other names have these writings gone by? When were these names given? What about the rest of the TaNaK? The same kind of questions may, or should, be answered.

 

[glorydaz]

So that the witnesses would remember key points, the voice that day may have delivered a dissertation from the cloud, continually repeating certain things, like certain Psalms do, that day when the Lord's face shown like the sun; it looked like the sun was His face, that day on the mountain. Maybe we only have 5-10 percent of what the voice said, but these were the main points He kept returning to, between other triumphant proclamations, that the witnesses chose to omit, under the influence of the Holy Spirit later on.

We can only know they each wrote what the Holy Spirit prompted them to write.

 

[Nihilo]

We can only know they each wrote what the Holy Spirit prompted them to write.

And because of this, we can know that what they wrote is a reliable facsimile of what the voice from the cloud actually said. If the voice said statements A, B, C, and D, then there's no error or discrepancy in one witness saying, "A, B, and C," and another saying, "A, C, and D." They're both true, they're both accurate and reliable, and they're both perfect and inerrant. Neither said, "Here is what the voice said, and He said none other!"

 

[glorydaz]

And because of this, we can know that what they wrote is a reliable facsimile of what the voice from the cloud actually said. If the voice said statements A, B, C, and D, then there's no error or discrepancy in one witness saying, "A, B, and C," and another saying, "A, C, and D." They're both true, they're both accurate and reliable, and they're both perfect and inerrant. Neither said, "Here is what the voice said, and He said none other!"

Yep, pretty simple unless there is an ulterior motive to besmirch God's word.

 

[2003cobra]

I do not know if what you are telling me is true. Neither do I know what to do with the information.

This book is helpful:

https://www.amazon.com/Canon-New-Testament-Development-Significance/dp/0198269544

 

[2003cobra]

I don't suppose someone's mentioned that none of the accounts are themselves complete? That they each recorded something that was said, but not everything that was said?

That makes none of them the complete or perfect.

 

[2003cobra]

Good on you, Jacob. Question everything like a good Berean (those who studied).
When you see it in those bible books, it always means "holy books."
He is correct that it means "to write" when not found in those books, unless those other sources are talking about these scriptures. :up:

He is trying to say, in so many words, that there is no such thing as anything 'considered scriptures.' He denies the term other than as it relates to books written about God. He doesn't see them as God's words, just words 'about' Him

Part of what you write is true and part of you write is false.

These are considered sacred scriptures.

They are, in their entirety, not God’s words. They never claim to be. In fact, many specifically claim to be written by people.

 

[2003cobra]

No point in discussing scripture with someone who barely sees the surface of God's Holy Word.

The genealogies contain a wealth of information, but, alas, you are not able to bear it. Just like so many Corinthians.

1 Corinthians 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.​

Yes, I was sure you could not explain the error. The strange thing is that you again attribute the error to God. It is very clear that Matthew miscounted and left out several generations. That was not God misrepresenting history.

 

[Lon]

Should we start with the Torah? Were these the first writings or the first writings accepted? When was it given this name? What other names have these writings gone by? When were these names given? What about the rest of the TaNaK? The same kind of questions may, or should, be answered.

Okay, the first 5 books are called the "Law." They are considered sacred scripture because God appointed Moses His prophet. See Exodus 34:27

Some of this was in the links I gave you too, Jacob.

Joshua not only finished Moses' books, but penned the book by his name as well. Through out Judges - Malachi, are God's instructions to 'write this down." And continues through to the Lord Jesus Christ and the disciples and apostles: Exodus 17:14 Isaiah 8:1 Jeremiah 30:2 Habakkuk 2:2 1 Corinthians 14:37 Hebrews 8:10 Revelation 1:19

 

[glorydaz]

No point in discussing scripture with someone who barely sees the surface of God's Holy Word.

The genealogies contain a wealth of information, but, alas, you are not able to bear it. Just like so many Corinthians.

1 Corinthians 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.​

Yes, I was sure you could not explain the error. The strange thing is that you again attribute the error to God. It is very clear that Matthew miscounted and left out several generations. That was not God misrepresenting history.

Ah, you're not only a fraud but a bald-faced LIAR. :nono:

 

[2003cobra]

Is there an error in the counting of the generations in Matthew chapter 1?

Angel4truth, you copied and pasted an error. If you look at the Bible yourself you will see. I posted the relevant passages.

Your erroneous quote said:
In the listing of Jesus' forefathers, there is a name missing.

There are four names missing. I listed them.

 

[2003cobra]

Angel4truth, look below at the many names missing:

Matthew wrote that there were 14 generations from David to the deportation. He listed the generations. He skips three generations, putting Uzziah in the place of Ahaziah, Joash, Amaziah, and Azariah.

So either Matthew has an error in counting the generations or 1 Chronicles 3 has an error in listing the generations.

Matthew 1 And David was the father of Solomon by the wife of Uriah, 7 and Solomon the father of Rehoboam, and Rehoboam the father of Abijah, and Abijah the father of Asaph, and Asaph the father of Jehoshaphat, and Jehoshaphat the father of Joram, and Joram the father of Uzziah, 9and Uzziah the father of Jotham, and Jotham the father of Ahaz, and Ahaz the father of Hezekiah...So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David to the deportation to Babylon, fourteen generations; and from the deportation to Babylon to the Messiah, fourteen generations.

1 Chronicles 3 The descendants of Solomon: Rehoboam, Abijah his son, Asa his son, Jehoshaphat his son, 11 Joram his son, Ahaziah his son, Joash his son, 12 Amaziah his son, Azariah his son, Jotham his son, 13 Ahaz his son, Hezekiah his son,


1 Chronicles 3.....Matthew
Solomon............ Solomom
Rehoboam...........Rehoboam
Abijah.............Abijah
Asa................Asaph
Jehoshaphat........Jehoshaphat
Joram..............Joram
Ahaziah............missing from Matthew
Joash..............missing from Matthew
Missing from 1 Chronicles......Uzziah
Amaziah............missing from Matthew
Azariah............missing from Matthew
Jotham.............Jotham
Ahaz...............Ahaz
Hezekiah...........Hezekiah

Minor differences in the names aren’t errors. Claiming there were 14 generations when there were 17 generations is an error. Actually, Matthew also skips Jehoiakim, so his miscount is off by 4. But I don’t want to pile on right now.

This is another error which disproves the man-made doctrine of inerrancy. It is an insignificant and minor error from the perspective of the validity and credibility of scriptures. It is another proof that the doctrine of inerrancy is false.

Whoever attempted to explain the error had a major fail.

 

[Nihilo]

That makes none of them the complete or perfect.

If words that were not uttered are recorded, then and only then is it not perfect/inerrant.

 

[2003cobra]

Ah, you're not only a fraud but a bald-faced LIAR. :nono:

You do attribute the error to God. You know there are errors. You know Matthew miscounted the generations. Yet you attribute the words in error to,the Holy Spirit.

 

[Jacob]

Okay, the first 5 books are called the "Law." They are considered sacred scripture because God appointed Moses His prophet. See Exodus 34:27

Some of this was in the links I gave you too, Jacob.

Joshua not only finished Moses' books, but penned the book by his name as well. Through out Judges - Malachi, are God's instructions to 'write this down." And continues through to the Lord Jesus Christ and the disciples and apostles: Exodus 17:14 Isaiah 8:1 Jeremiah 30:2 Habakkuk 2:2 1 Corinthians 14:37 Hebrews 8:10 Revelation 1:19

I do not know you to be correct.

 

[Lon]

Part of what you write is true and part of you write is false.

Um, Nope. Nice try 'nobody that anybody even knows nor cares what he thinks.' I wasn't talking to you. Talk to Jacob if you like. I'm done with you. Sorry, you are a complete waste of time. There is nothing you can do on TOL worth anybody's time. You simply don't have the wherewithal.

These are considered sacred scriptures.

:think: Not really answering Jacob's question so just a waste of space and 'your' agenda. This is Jacob's thread. Hijacking threads is against TOL rules. You can get an infraction for it. You agreed to rules when you came to TOL. Like most other things, you probably didn't read them BUT you STILL agreed to abide by them.

They are, in their entirety, not God’s words. They never claim to be. In fact, many specifically claim to be written by people.

:dizzy: Thus you've answered. How many different ways are you going to say it? Jacob believes they are inspired, you don't. He isn't ASKING about that and you've given him your answer, no move along. Don't address me, I've nothing but contempt for your posts, well, a little sympathy for being so old and stuck in your ways, but don't push it. Now move along.

 

[2003cobra]

Lon, you seem to have just given up trying to explain the errors.

You certainly haven’t tried to explain the miscount in Matthew.

I am certain you can’t. At least Angel4truth tried.

I have more errors to discuss, but you seem to have become paralyzed on the last few — pretending insults substitute for explanations. I am a little embarrassed for you. After all the bluster, you just fizzled out.

 

[glorydaz]

You do attribute the error to God.

LIAR

You know there are errors.

LIAR

You know Matthew miscounted the generations.

LIAR

Yet you attribute the words in error to,the Holy Spirit.

LIAR

 

[Lon]

I do not know you to be correct.

Hence, I gave you scriptures and links to look them up, Jacob. Read them. If you do, you don't have to believe me. I simply summarized them.

Again, I'm giving you links on purpose so that you can look them up yourself or have a friend do it for or with you, Jacob. Study well. -Lon

 

[Jacob]

Hence, I gave you scriptures and links to look them up, Jacob. Read them. If you do, you don't have to believe me. I simply summarized them.

Again, I'm giving you links on purpose so that you can look them up yourself or have a friend do it for or with you, Jacob. Study well. -Lon

I believe that you gave me a link. If you are referring me to your words I can understand your wanting me to respond to them.