School attacks couldnt happen without guns? Bombs and other means of mass attacks

[Selaphiel]

Nah, those who use guns to murder would find another weapon.

Statistics says: No, they wouldn't. The US murder rates are higher than pretty much every developed country in the world. And the difference is accounted for my murders committed using firearms.

A scarier scenario would be resorting to a bomb or arson. Then who would be to blame? Gas stations? Matchmakers?

I live in a country where guns are quite restricted. Why don't we see a spike in murders by methods like those you describe here? Criminals very rarely use firearms here as well. Shootings are very rare.

Like rexlunae says, criminals aren't necessarily out to kill people. But firearms are weapons where impulsive actions often results in death. Arson and bombs require planning, quite rare events pretty much everywhere. Bombs require some technical expertise as well as components that are quite restricted.

You arm the population, you arm the criminals. That is what the statistics seems to be saying.

Why didnt Australia see that when they restricted their gun laws? All they saw was a drop in their murder rate.

 

[ok doser]

...
Lots of crime is like that, dark strangers and professional hit men is the stuff of movies, but not most crime, its more everyday.

that's racist

and most gun violence is linked to gang activity, which unfortunately in the us, is heavily represented by blacks and hispanics

 

[Rusha]

Why doe so many people always want to assume that the criminal is "hell bent" on killing? A lot of the folks who commit these crimes are too impulsive to jump through a lot of hoops.

And what of those who have the determination to jump through many ... ?

There is no greater equalizer against a home intruder than a firearm.

 

[Angel4Truth]

It works because it makes firearms very hard to get hold of. Criminals generally don't get guns.

A few years ago when London had a gang violence problem, the issue was knives not guns, still not good but a lot lower body count than if guns were in play.

How to work that into a system that currently has 300,000,000 guns would however be challenging.

Weird how crime is a lot worse over there, than it is here, even though our population is much greater :think:

Guess your people have a hard time defending themselves huh.

UK Violent Crime Rate Eight Times Higher Than The US


According to the FBI, there were 1.2 million violent crimes committed in the US during 2011. FBI — Violent Crime

According to the UK government, there were 1.94 million violent crimes in the UK during 2011. www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_296191.pdf

There are almost exactly five times as many people in the US as in the UK – 314 million vs. 63 million. The violent crime rate in the UK is 3,100 per 100,000, and in the US it is 380 per 100,000 population.

Your other concerns in this thread, were answered by me in another thread, no need to be redunant, so here is my response that i gave over there:

To be fair I don't think they consider dead people, they are just stats.

I have never seen a bereaved parent come out pro gun.

I am a bereaved parent of a child who was murdered by being shot to death driving home from work. So yes, you have seen one.

A gun didn't kill him, a criminal did.

64 percent of gun deaths in the US are suicides. I guess no one can kill themselves without a gun :think:

Sadly they include suicides in the violent gun deaths category, and they by far make up most of it.

Then 75 percent of what are left over, happen in only 5 percent of all US adresses. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...kely-to-be-a-victim-of-homicide-10242435.html

Then we have real stats that way more crimes are stopped by guns, than anyone is harmed by them.

https://www.gunowners.org/sk0802htm.htm

Oh and my son was driving through one of the 5 percent neighborhoods, on his way home, sadly the highway goes through there.

And we should be doing something about them, but sadly when we try, the cops are blamed for doing their job and the thugs are celebrated as if they are heros. Empowering it all the more.

You better believe as the parent of a child gunned down, i wanted to know the FACTS. Now tell me mr UK who has no clue about anything in america, what your skin is in the game here? I have some.

 

[Tyrathca]

Weird how crime is a lot worse over there, than it is here, even though our population is much greater :think:

Guess your people have a hard time defending themselves huh.

You do realise that statistically homicide rates and gun availability are associated with each other on a country vs country comparison.

 

[Angel4Truth]

You do realise that statistically homicide rates and gun availability are associated with each other on a country vs country comparison.

You do realize that crimes occur with or without a gun right? And that you have a better chance of escaping being a victim with one?

You have clearly not looked at any data presented.

 

[rexlunae]

And what of those who have the determination to jump through many ... ?

They might succeed.

There is no greater equalizer against a home intruder than a firearm.

I don't know why the thinking on this is so binary. It's as if some people think the only two options are the (almost) completely uncontrolled wild-west that we have now, or complete removal of firearms from all people. There is a significant middle-ground. But the very first thing that we really need is to study gun violence and what policies can prevent it. Doesn't that seem like a good thing? Why do you suppose the gun lobby opposes it so vociferously?

 

[Angel4Truth]

I don't know why the thinking on this is so binary.

Its called facts:

* Guns used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year -- or about 6,850 times a day. [1] This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives. [2]

* Of the 2.5 million times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, the overwhelming majority merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers. Less than 8% of the time, a citizen will kill or wound his/her attacker.[3]

* As many as 200,000 women use a gun every year to defend themselves against sexual abuse.[4]

* Even anti-gun Clinton researchers concede that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense. According to the Clinton Justice Department, there are as many as 1.5 million cases of self-defense every year. The National Institute of Justice published this figure in 1997 as part of "Guns in America" -- a study which was authored by noted anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig.[5]

* Armed citizens kill more crooks than do the police. Citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as police do every year (1,527 to 606).[6] And readers of Newsweek learned that "only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. The 'error rate' for the police, however, was 11 percent, more than five times as high."[7]

https://www.gunowners.org/sk0802htm.htm

When seconds count, the police are minutes or even hours away...

 

[rexlunae]

Its called facts:

https://www.gunowners.org/sk0802htm.htm

When seconds count, the police are minutes or even hours away...

That top statistic is discredited and in some cases, impossible.

These sorts of biases, which are inherent in reporting self-defense incidents, can lead to nonsensical results. In several crime categories, for example, gun owners would have to protect themselves more than 100 percent of the time for Kleck and Getz’s estimates to make sense. For example, guns were allegedly used in self-defense in 845,000 burglaries, according to Kleck and Getz. However, from reliable victimization surveys, we know that there were fewer than 1.3 million burglaries where someone was in the home at the time of the crime, and only 33 percent of these had occupants who weren’t sleeping. From surveys on firearm ownership, we also know that 42 percent of U.S. households owned firearms at the time of the survey. Even if burglars only rob houses of gun owners, and those gun owners use their weapons in self-defense every single time they are awake, the 845,000 statistic cited in Kleck and Gertz’s paper is simply mathematically impossible.

http://www.armedwithreason.com/debunking-the-defensive-gun-use-myth/

I don't think either of us are well-equipped to sort out all the evidence, and the contrary conclusions in a web of blogs we can find with Google. But maybe the solution would be to have actual research done in an impartial setting, so that we could have some trustworthy evidence-based policy.

 

[Angel4Truth]

That top statistic is discredited and in some cases, impossible.

These sorts of biases, which are inherent in reporting self-defense incidents, can lead to nonsensical results. In several crime categories, for example, gun owners would have to protect themselves more than 100 percent of the time for Kleck and Getz’s estimates to make sense. For example, guns were allegedly used in self-defense in 845,000 burglaries, according to Kleck and Getz. However, from reliable victimization surveys, we know that there were fewer than 1.3 million burglaries where someone was in the home at the time of the crime, and only 33 percent of these had occupants who weren’t sleeping. From surveys on firearm ownership, we also know that 42 percent of U.S. households owned firearms at the time of the survey. Even if burglars only rob houses of gun owners, and those gun owners use their weapons in self-defense every single time they are awake, the 845,000 statistic cited in Kleck and Gertz’s paper is simply mathematically impossible.

http://www.armedwithreason.com/debunking-the-defensive-gun-use-myth/

I don't think either of us are well-equipped to sort out all the evidence, and the contrary conclusions in a web of blogs we can find with Google. But maybe the solution would be to have actual research done in an impartial setting, so that we could have some trustworthy evidence-based policy.

You better check the facts.

 

[Tyrathca]

You better check the facts.

Uhhhh... They did, that was them telling you that when they checked the facts there were some things wrong with what you quoted. An intelligent response would be for you to say why you still think the original stats are correct.

 

[TomO]

I don't think either of us are well-equipped to sort out all the evidence, and the contrary conclusions in a web of blogs we can find with Google. But maybe the solution would be to have actual research done in an impartial setting, so that we could have some trustworthy evidence-based policy.

Is a CDC study good enough? lain:

Article from Slate magazine:

7. Guns are used for self-defense often and effectively. “Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year … in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008,” says the report

 

[rexlunae]

You better check the facts.

Here are the facts. The United States is by far, by far the most heavily armed nation on Earth (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country). And yet we aren't the safest. We have more guns than countries that are forcefully occupying armed populations. And we aren't safer. And you seem to understand that in your fear about how long it takes the police to arrive. How is it, if guns are so safe, that we feel so threatened and suffer so much violence?

 

[patrick jane]

Uhhhh... They did, that was them telling you that when they checked the facts there were some things wrong with what you quoted. An intelligent response would be for you to say why you still think the original stats are correct.

is your avatar you holding a bowling ball with a light in it ?

 

[rexlunae]

Is a CDC study good enough? lain:

Article from Slate magazine:

As noted in my response to Angel, the one estimate that's often cited suggesting 2.5 million uses per year is impossible. It's unlikely the 3 million estimate, wherever it comes from, is accurate. And surveys of self-reports aren't really very good evidence. This is self-reporting, and I suspect the numbers are drastically inflated.

 

[patrick jane]

As noted in my response to Angel, the one estimate that's often cited suggesting 2.5 million uses per year is impossible. It's unlikely the 3 million estimate, wherever it comes from, is accurate. And surveys of self-reports aren't really very good evidence. This is self-reporting, and I suspect the numbers are drastically inflated.

can we really believe studies - they're always 4 years old

 

[rexlunae]

can we really believe studies - they're always 4 years old

That study is a lot more than 4 years old. It was performed in 1992. But the problem with it is based on self-report, which is known to be pretty unreliable.

 

[Tinark]

This thread was made to examine this conversation in more detail:









I took an hour to research this, and see just how often mass attacks have occured and by what means other than firearms.


Quick list of some more well known bombings and mass attacks in the US (planes heading to the us with bombs on them not included, only those within the US). ( The following by far not a comprehensive or complete list)

You will also see 2 schools there.

Spoiler

1886 - Bomb thrown during labor rally at Haymarket Square kills 7

1905 - Frank Steunenberg, former Idaho governor, killed by bomb

1910 - The Los Angeles Times bombing by union activists kills 21 and injures some 100.

1916: The Preparedness Day Bombing killed ten people and injured 40 in San Francisco.

1917: A bomb exploded in a Milwaukee police station, killing nine officers and a civilian

1919: Atlanta Ga - mail bomb sent to home of senator Thomas Hardwick explodes, injuring a housekeeper and the senator's wife

1919:Anarchist bombings kill a night watchman and a terrorist; additional bombings occurred in Washington, DC, Philadelphia, PA, Paterson, NJ, Cleveland, OH, and two in Pittsburgh, PA

1919: Boston, Massachusetts - Anarchist bombing at the home of a state representative injured one child; a second bombing at the house of a judge

1920 - New York City, New York - Bomb in horse-drawn wagon exploded near Morgan bank in lower Manhattan

1920 - The Wall Street bombing kill 28 and seriously injures 143. *truck detonated with explosives*

1927 - School bombing in Bath, Michigan - explosion of bomb placed in school, followed by suicide bombing

1933 - United Airlines -A Boeing 247 airliner flying from Cleveland to Chicago exploded in mid-air over Chesterton, Indiana. Ten people (7 passengers, 3 crew) were killed in the crash, and the cause was determined to be a nitroglycerin bomb

1940 - New York City, New York - bomb explodes at British Pavilion at the World's Fair, killing 2 police officers and injuring 2

1941 - Pearl Harbor, bombs, and planes used as bombs- 2,403 Americans were killed and 1,178 others were wounded

1951 - NAACP state director Harry Moore and his wife killed in bombing of their house

1954 -1970 Bomb explodes in seat at Radio City Music Hall during a movie showing and lots of other places in New york city - George P. Metesky (November 2, 1903 – May 23, 1994), better known as the Mad Bomber, terrorized New York City for 16 years in the 1940s and 1950s with explosives that he planted in theaters, terminals, libraries, and offices. Bombs were left in phone booths, storage lockers, and restrooms in public buildings, including Grand Central Terminal, Pennsylvania Station, Radio City Music Hall, the New York Public Library, the Port Authority Bus Terminal and the RCA Building, as well as in the New York City Subway. Metesky also bombed movie theaters, where he cut into seat upholstery and slipped his explosive devices inside. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Metesky

1955 - United Air Lines DC-8 (flight 629) exploded and crashed near Longmont, CO, destroyed by bomb planted by John Graham in insurance plot to kill his mother, a passenger - 39 passengers and five crew members on board were killed in the explosion and crash.

1957 - Western Air Lines Flight 39
Western 39 was a multi-stage flight on a route from Minneapolis to Salt Lake City to Cedar City to Las Vegas to Los Angeles. A passenger named Saul Binstock flew from Burbank, California, to Las Vegas and never left the airport terminal prior to boarding the Western Air Lines flight back to Los Angeles. The Convair CV-240 had just taken off carrying 16 people (13 passengers, 3 crew) when Binstock locked himself in the aft lavatory and set off a dynamite bomb. Though he was killed and the blast created a 6 x 7 ft (1.8 x 2.1 m) hole in the fuselage, the plane managed to land safely with no further injuries.

1959 - Suicide bombing at Poe elementary school in Houston - Six people, including the perpetrator and his own son, were killed.

1960 - Boliva, North Carolina - National Airlines flight bombed in insurance plot

1962 - Continental Airlines Flight 11
dynamite bomb hidden in a towel container under the washbasin in the right rear lavatory detonated. The blast caused the plane's tail to break away and the aircraft went out of control, crashing near Unionville, Missouri, and taking the lives of 45 people (37 passengers, 8 crew)

1963 - 16th Street Baptist Church bombing in Birmingham, Alabama, committed by the Ku Klux Klan. Four African-American girls are killed on Sunday morning.

1967 -An American Airlines Boeing 727 had departed Chicago when a small explosion occurred one hour and 42 minutes after takeoff. The blast was caused by a crude homemade bomb located in the aft baggage hold. None of the 78 passengers and crew were injured and the plane landed safely.

1968 - Continental Airlines Boeing 707 carrying 70 people was preparing to land at Denver when an explosion occurred in one of the lavatories. Though the blast started a small fire, the pilots were able to make an emergency landing with no injuries. A passenger seen leaving the lavatory just before the explosion was arrested by the FBI.

1970 - The first mass aircraft hijackings occurred in 1970, the so-called Dawson's Field hijackings, when the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine seized control of two American planes and one Swiss airliner, all bound from Europe to the United States, to punish the United States for supporting Israel. The Pan Am, TWA and Swissair planes were blown up on the ground in Jordan and Egypt.

1975 - The Puerto Rican nationalist FALN bombs Fraunces Tavern in New York City on January 24, killing four and injuring more than 50.

1976 -An unoccupied Eastern Airlines L-188 Electra parked at Boston Logan Airport was destroyed by a bomb planted in the landing gear compartment. No one was injured.

1978-1995 - Three people die and 23 others are wounded after a string of mail bombings carried out by Ted Kaczynski

1979 - American Airlines Flight 444
American 444 was a Boeing 727 carrying 78 people (72 passengers, 6 crew) and headed from Chicago to Washington DC. Thirty minutes into flight, a mail bomb hidden in a wooden box in the cargo hold ignited. The device produced large amounts of smoke but failed to detonate, though investigators found only a faulty timer prevented the bomb from obliterating the plane. The pilot made a successful emergency landing at Washington-Dulles but several passengers had to be treated for smoke inhalation. The bomb was built by Ted Kaczynski, better known as the Unabomber.

1980 - United Airlines
Passengers were disembarking a Boeing 727 in Sacramento, California, when a small cardboard box in the cargo hold detonated. The explosion injured two cargo handlers but none of the 44 passengers and crew were harmed.

1983 - November 7 - The Armed Resistance Unit, a militant leftist group, bombs the U.S. Capitol in response to the U.S. invasion of Grenada.

1985 - American Airlines
A bomb hidden in a vinyl tote bag exploded aboard a Boeing 727. The blast occurred in the forward baggage hold while being unloaded and there were no fatalities.

1993 - February 26 - World Trade Center bombing, 6 killed, 1,042 injured.

1995 - April 19 - Oklahoma City bombing, 168 killed, over 800 injured.

1996 - July 27 - Centennial Olympic Park bombing: during the Atlanta Olympics: 1 killed 111 injured.

2001 - September 11, 2001 attacks, 2,997 killed by Islamic fundamentalists using planes as bombs

2010 - Cargo Bombing Attempt
On 29 October 2010, officials discovered two packages addressed to Jewish organizations in Chicago that contained explosive material. The sophisticated bombs contained approximately one pound of the explosive PETN and were found aboard cargo planes, although each had also been carried on passenger flights before their discovery. The first was found on a UPS plane in the United Kingdom while the second was discovered aboard a FedEx aircraft at Dubai. Each bomb was packaged within a printer toner cartridge and "the explosives discovered were of a sophisticated nature whereby they could not be detected by X-ray screening or trained sniffer dogs." The devices were to be triggered by cell phone alarms set to detonate while the planes were estimated to be over the Atlantic Ocean. Investigators believe the bombs were intended to destroy planes in flight, although it is unclear whether the perpetrators could have known whether they would be carried aboard passenger or freight aircraft. Both packages originated in Yemen and the organization al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula is believed responsible.

2013 - Twin bomb blasts explode near the finish line of the Boston Marathon, killing three and wounding at least 264.

Quick facts all taken from various wikipedia articles as well as http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0283.shtml and
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/18/us/u-s-terrorist-attacks-fast-facts/

By far this is not a comprehensive list, just those i could scrape up in the last hour.

This doesn't include all the car bombs, pipe bombs, mail bombs and loads of others and where cars and trucks are used to mow down numbers of people or used to crash into buildings to harm people.

This would make that quick tons longer if i kept going and adding to it. You can see a couple schools are included in the bombings as well and if you notice before guns were widely available, bombings happened all the time instead. Mass murders and attacks have ALWAYS happened. The only thing that has changed is the means.

At any rate, i think it makes the overall point - if someone is hell bent on mass murder, they will find a way do it, even if there were no guns at all, and then loads more would potentially be killed because they would not have the means to defend themselves.

*Fact, more guns save lives each year than take them*

Is it your contention that American children and college students are just more murderous than the rest of the world? If not, what explains the fact that US schools, even when adjusted for size of population, have far more school mass shootings than any other country in the world, by a long shot?

If it is your contention that American children and college students are more murderous than the rest of the world, what explains that?

 

[rougueone]

This thread was made to examine this conversation in more detail:









I took an hour to research this, and see just how often mass attacks have occured and by what means other than firearms.


Quick list of some more well known bombings and mass attacks in the US (planes heading to the us with bombs on them not included, only those within the US). ( The following by far not a comprehensive or complete list)

You will also see 2 schools there.

Spoiler

1886 - Bomb thrown during labor rally at Haymarket Square kills 7

1905 - Frank Steunenberg, former Idaho governor, killed by bomb

1910 - The Los Angeles Times bombing by union activists kills 21 and injures some 100.

1916: The Preparedness Day Bombing killed ten people and injured 40 in San Francisco.

1917: A bomb exploded in a Milwaukee police station, killing nine officers and a civilian

1919: Atlanta Ga - mail bomb sent to home of senator Thomas Hardwick explodes, injuring a housekeeper and the senator's wife

1919:Anarchist bombings kill a night watchman and a terrorist; additional bombings occurred in Washington, DC, Philadelphia, PA, Paterson, NJ, Cleveland, OH, and two in Pittsburgh, PA

1919: Boston, Massachusetts - Anarchist bombing at the home of a state representative injured one child; a second bombing at the house of a judge

1920 - New York City, New York - Bomb in horse-drawn wagon exploded near Morgan bank in lower Manhattan

1920 - The Wall Street bombing kill 28 and seriously injures 143. *truck detonated with explosives*

1927 - School bombing in Bath, Michigan - explosion of bomb placed in school, followed by suicide bombing

1933 - United Airlines -A Boeing 247 airliner flying from Cleveland to Chicago exploded in mid-air over Chesterton, Indiana. Ten people (7 passengers, 3 crew) were killed in the crash, and the cause was determined to be a nitroglycerin bomb

1940 - New York City, New York - bomb explodes at British Pavilion at the World's Fair, killing 2 police officers and injuring 2

1941 - Pearl Harbor, bombs, and planes used as bombs- 2,403 Americans were killed and 1,178 others were wounded

1951 - NAACP state director Harry Moore and his wife killed in bombing of their house

1954 -1970 Bomb explodes in seat at Radio City Music Hall during a movie showing and lots of other places in New york city - George P. Metesky (November 2, 1903 – May 23, 1994), better known as the Mad Bomber, terrorized New York City for 16 years in the 1940s and 1950s with explosives that he planted in theaters, terminals, libraries, and offices. Bombs were left in phone booths, storage lockers, and restrooms in public buildings, including Grand Central Terminal, Pennsylvania Station, Radio City Music Hall, the New York Public Library, the Port Authority Bus Terminal and the RCA Building, as well as in the New York City Subway. Metesky also bombed movie theaters, where he cut into seat upholstery and slipped his explosive devices inside. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Metesky

1955 - United Air Lines DC-8 (flight 629) exploded and crashed near Longmont, CO, destroyed by bomb planted by John Graham in insurance plot to kill his mother, a passenger - 39 passengers and five crew members on board were killed in the explosion and crash.

1957 - Western Air Lines Flight 39
Western 39 was a multi-stage flight on a route from Minneapolis to Salt Lake City to Cedar City to Las Vegas to Los Angeles. A passenger named Saul Binstock flew from Burbank, California, to Las Vegas and never left the airport terminal prior to boarding the Western Air Lines flight back to Los Angeles. The Convair CV-240 had just taken off carrying 16 people (13 passengers, 3 crew) when Binstock locked himself in the aft lavatory and set off a dynamite bomb. Though he was killed and the blast created a 6 x 7 ft (1.8 x 2.1 m) hole in the fuselage, the plane managed to land safely with no further injuries.

1959 - Suicide bombing at Poe elementary school in Houston - Six people, including the perpetrator and his own son, were killed.

1960 - Boliva, North Carolina - National Airlines flight bombed in insurance plot

1962 - Continental Airlines Flight 11
dynamite bomb hidden in a towel container under the washbasin in the right rear lavatory detonated. The blast caused the plane's tail to break away and the aircraft went out of control, crashing near Unionville, Missouri, and taking the lives of 45 people (37 passengers, 8 crew)

1963 - 16th Street Baptist Church bombing in Birmingham, Alabama, committed by the Ku Klux Klan. Four African-American girls are killed on Sunday morning.

1967 -An American Airlines Boeing 727 had departed Chicago when a small explosion occurred one hour and 42 minutes after takeoff. The blast was caused by a crude homemade bomb located in the aft baggage hold. None of the 78 passengers and crew were injured and the plane landed safely.

1968 - Continental Airlines Boeing 707 carrying 70 people was preparing to land at Denver when an explosion occurred in one of the lavatories. Though the blast started a small fire, the pilots were able to make an emergency landing with no injuries. A passenger seen leaving the lavatory just before the explosion was arrested by the FBI.

1970 - The first mass aircraft hijackings occurred in 1970, the so-called Dawson's Field hijackings, when the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine seized control of two American planes and one Swiss airliner, all bound from Europe to the United States, to punish the United States for supporting Israel. The Pan Am, TWA and Swissair planes were blown up on the ground in Jordan and Egypt.

1975 - The Puerto Rican nationalist FALN bombs Fraunces Tavern in New York City on January 24, killing four and injuring more than 50.

1976 -An unoccupied Eastern Airlines L-188 Electra parked at Boston Logan Airport was destroyed by a bomb planted in the landing gear compartment. No one was injured.

1978-1995 - Three people die and 23 others are wounded after a string of mail bombings carried out by Ted Kaczynski

1979 - American Airlines Flight 444
American 444 was a Boeing 727 carrying 78 people (72 passengers, 6 crew) and headed from Chicago to Washington DC. Thirty minutes into flight, a mail bomb hidden in a wooden box in the cargo hold ignited. The device produced large amounts of smoke but failed to detonate, though investigators found only a faulty timer prevented the bomb from obliterating the plane. The pilot made a successful emergency landing at Washington-Dulles but several passengers had to be treated for smoke inhalation. The bomb was built by Ted Kaczynski, better known as the Unabomber.

1980 - United Airlines
Passengers were disembarking a Boeing 727 in Sacramento, California, when a small cardboard box in the cargo hold detonated. The explosion injured two cargo handlers but none of the 44 passengers and crew were harmed.

1983 - November 7 - The Armed Resistance Unit, a militant leftist group, bombs the U.S. Capitol in response to the U.S. invasion of Grenada.

1985 - American Airlines
A bomb hidden in a vinyl tote bag exploded aboard a Boeing 727. The blast occurred in the forward baggage hold while being unloaded and there were no fatalities.

1993 - February 26 - World Trade Center bombing, 6 killed, 1,042 injured.

1995 - April 19 - Oklahoma City bombing, 168 killed, over 800 injured.

1996 - July 27 - Centennial Olympic Park bombing: during the Atlanta Olympics: 1 killed 111 injured.

2001 - September 11, 2001 attacks, 2,997 killed by Islamic fundamentalists using planes as bombs

2010 - Cargo Bombing Attempt
On 29 October 2010, officials discovered two packages addressed to Jewish organizations in Chicago that contained explosive material. The sophisticated bombs contained approximately one pound of the explosive PETN and were found aboard cargo planes, although each had also been carried on passenger flights before their discovery. The first was found on a UPS plane in the United Kingdom while the second was discovered aboard a FedEx aircraft at Dubai. Each bomb was packaged within a printer toner cartridge and "the explosives discovered were of a sophisticated nature whereby they could not be detected by X-ray screening or trained sniffer dogs." The devices were to be triggered by cell phone alarms set to detonate while the planes were estimated to be over the Atlantic Ocean. Investigators believe the bombs were intended to destroy planes in flight, although it is unclear whether the perpetrators could have known whether they would be carried aboard passenger or freight aircraft. Both packages originated in Yemen and the organization al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula is believed responsible.

2013 - Twin bomb blasts explode near the finish line of the Boston Marathon, killing three and wounding at least 264.

Quick facts all taken from various wikipedia articles as well as http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0283.shtml and
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/18/us/u-s-terrorist-attacks-fast-facts/

By far this is not a comprehensive list, just those i could scrape up in the last hour.

This doesn't include all the car bombs, pipe bombs, mail bombs and loads of others and where cars and trucks are used to mow down numbers of people or used to crash into buildings to harm people.

This would make that quick tons longer if i kept going and adding to it. You can see a couple schools are included in the bombings as well and if you notice before guns were widely available, bombings happened all the time instead. Mass murders and attacks have ALWAYS happened. The only thing that has changed is the means.

At any rate, i think it makes the overall point - if someone is hell bent on mass murder, they will find a way do it, even if there were no guns at all, and then loads more would potentially be killed because they would not have the means to defend themselves.

*Fact, more guns save lives each year than take them*

I agree entirely A4T. When someone is determined to kill others they will. If every gun was taken tomorrow these people will result to more devious means to achieve their agenda. And the carnage as you have shown will be worse then if by gun fire. Good post. Very common sense approach A4T.

 

[Tyrathca]

I agree entirely A4T. When someone is determined to kill others they will. If every gun was taken tomorrow these people will result to more devious means to achieve their agenda. And the carnage as you have shown will be worse then if by gun fire. Good post. Very common sense approach A4T.

But most people who kill aren't "determined to kill others", it's often impulsive and poorly planned. Plus your own argument invalidates the argument for guns protecting people, since if the world is filled with people "determined to kill others" then they would factor in gun ownership and kill with methods which make guns useless in defence (sniper, bombs, poisons, etc).

Fortunately the world isn't filed with many such dangerous people, unfortunately it is filed with dumb aggressive impulsive people who when given a tool for killing people sometimes actually use it.