Robert's Gospel According to the Apostle Paul

john w

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If you are "In Christ" you are without sin, Romans 8:1. If you are subject to the law or practice law keeping you are under the curse, Galatians 3:10.

You appear to be under the curse.
1. Pate: I am without sin, but I am a sinner.

2.Pate: The law needs to not exist, or you are condemned by it, and the Lord Jesus Christ did not die for our sin debt.

3.If the law exists, you are subject to it; that is why I am subject to the laws of others countries.

=Pate's dementia
 

john w

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If you are "In Christ" you are without sin, Romans 8:1..

True, but we are in Christ, not having our sins charged to our account, because Christ died for our sin debt, for breaking, transgressing, an existing law; you, on the other hand, reject that, on record, asserting that we are not condemned, because there is no law to condemn us=Christ died for nothing,as you assert that He died not for our sins.

=satanic
 

john w

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Hall of Fame
And then when Paul says, Wherefore the law is holy and the commandment holy and just and good" Romans 7:12. He seems to think that cancels out all of the scripture that says that the law has been abolished for Christians.

No scripture asserts that "the law has been abolished for Christians"-your satanic interpretation says that, and you delete/cancel all of scripture, that testifies that it will last forever; and only a dementia filled demon, would slur this "logic:" The law is abolished for some, but "un-abolished" for others.


Why do you delete this, Pate?:

Romans 3:31 KJV Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
 
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Right Divider

Body part
True, but we are in Christ, not having our sins charged to our account, because Christ died for our sin debt, for breaking, transgressing, an existing law; you, on the other hand, reject that, on record, asserting that we are not condemned, because there is no law to condemn us=Christ died for nothing,as you assert that He died not for our sins.

=satanic
1Co 15:3 KJV For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Tell all of TOL, Pate,as I, countless other members of the boc have been asking you, for years, with not a peep from you,why murder, sodomy, theft, covetousness,................ are wrong, a sin, a transgression, if there is no objective standard, law, marking it, defining them, as such.
 

john w

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Hall of Fame
You are saying things that I did not say, nor do I believe. This is very typical of a religious reprobate. All that they can do is make false accusations because they don't have the truth.

Liar-again:
There is no condemnation because there is no law, it has been abolished,

Pate: We are not condemned, because Christ died for our sin debt, as there is no law, to define said sin debt; He died to destroy the law, so that there is no sin debt.
 
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john w

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John W. thinks that the Bible contradicts itself. There is no contradiction.

"Knowing this, that the law is not made for the righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murders of fathers and mothers, for manslayers, 1 Timothy 1:9.

And then when Paul says, Wherefore the law is holy and the commandment holy and just and good" Romans 7:12. He seems to think that cancels out all of the scripture that says that the law has been abolished for Christians.

The law is holy just and good because it reveals the nature and the character of God and it keeps sinners in check. We need laws for the ungodly and sinners, but not for Christians that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit.

John W. does not have any understanding of the scriptures because he is spiritually blind and is more than likely a religious reprobate.

Where there is law there is judgment and condemnation. Thank God that there is no condemnation for those that are "In Christ" Romans 8:1. There is no condemnation because there is no law, it has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15.

And, since you have claimed, on record, that you commit sins, everyday, tell us how that is possible, if there is no objective standard, law, marking what you say are sins, defining them, as such.


Not a peep from you, for years.

And tell us, Pate, who gives you the authority, to flip the bird at Paul, accuse him of lying, as you delete, ON RECORD, these scriptures:

Ephesians 6 KJV

2 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. 2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise

Exodus 20 KJV
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.

Deuteronomy 5 KJV


16 Honour thy father and thy mother, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.


And explain, why you, ON RECORD, assert, argue that the U.S. is the only country, that has laws, as if other countries have laws, we are automatically under their jurisdiction, their authority, and judged/condemned by them. That is your twisted, insane "logic," which you have stated, on record.

Explain that lunacy to all of TOL.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
1Co 15:3 KJV For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Pate-anity:1Co 15:3 KJV For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died to destroy the law,according to Pate-anity, so that there is no sin debt incurred...


There is no condemnation because there is no law, it has been abolished,

Pate: We are not condemned, because Christ died for our sin debt, as there is no law, to define said sin debt; He died to destroy the law, so that there is no sin debt.
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
1. Pate: I am without sin, but I am a sinner.

2.Pate: The law needs to not exist, or you are condemned by it, and the Lord Jesus Christ did not die for our sin debt.

3.If the law exists, you are subject to it; that is why I am subject to the laws of others countries.

=Pate's dementia


You and the Pharisees have a lot incommon. You both hate Paul and his Gospel.

In the Gospel Jesus fulfills the law, Matthew 5:18 and then abolishes it, Colossians 2:14.

The Jews followed Paul everywhere that he went and persecuted him because he taught that the law had been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. You would be right there with them, persecuting him.

The law is a big part of your religion. Without the law there is a big void in your doctrine and in your religion. This is very common with religious reprobates such as yourself. They make the law their Jesus. Without the law their religion falls apart.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
You and the Pharisees have a lot incommon. You both hate Paul and his Gospel.

In the Gospel Jesus fulfills the law, Matthew 5:18 and then abolishes it, Colossians 2:14.


Spam. And no, you hate the gospel of Christ, perverting Paul's gospel, asserting that the Lord Jesus Christ did not die for our sins, and instead spamming, satanically, that he died to destroty,make void the law, so that there is no dsin debt incurred, since there is no law. And no, devil child, Colossians 2:14 KJV, you wicked deceiver, says no such thing, as I, other Christians(which excludes you, have showed you, demon.


No scripture say that God's perfect law was abolished, destroyed, eliminated, made void,deceiver, despite your spam, posting verses in isolation, deleting 3/4 of the bible, including, where it says:



Matthew 5:17 KJV Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Psalms 111 KJV

7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure.

8 They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.

....to "prove" his doctrine of demons."

He corrupts, perverts both Ephesians 2:15 KJV, Colossians 2:14 KJV, to prop up his satanic assertion that the perfect, holy, just, good, not void law of God, which reflects His character, is no longer in existence.


Thus, Pate, on record, asserts that Christ died in vain, there was no reason to die, as He did not need to die to pay our IOU/sin debt, as all the LORD God had to do, was destroy/abolish/make void/eliminate the law, so there would not be a sin debt/IOU. Thus, he then,like the devil attempts to satanically delete "the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV, replacing it with "law/ordinances," thus perverting, corrupting the scriptures, making it look like Paul says that Christ blotted out, made void, the law/ordinances, making it look like Paul is saying that the law/ordinances are contrary/against us, not for our benefit, instead of Paul saying that the sin debt/IOU/"bond indenture" was blotted out, as that is what is contrary to us, against us, as Paul asserts that the law is perfect, good, holy, just, spiritual, not void, in Romans 11, and the problem is with man, and the sin debt/IOU for breaking a good, holy, spiritual law, not the law itself.



Pate says the opposite, asserting that the problem is with the law, as it is not prefect/good/holy/spiritual,as he asserts that it causes us to sin, as it is sin, and the problem is not with man/him, and he asserts that the solution is to assert that Christ came to destroy/abolish/blot out the law, not to die for man's breaking the good, holy, spiritual, law of God.


He keeps satanically spamming this made up slop, that Col. 2:13-14 KJV has God's holy laws in view, being nailed to the cross. I, and others, have corrected you on it, over, and over, and yet you keep asserting this satanic "doctrine." One more time, to protect the sheep/babes, from your lies:

What was nailed to the cross is described as “the handwriting of requirements"-that was against us, which was contrary to us.” Because “ordinances” sounds like “law,” some, like sloppy Pate, twist the meaning of “nailed it to the cross” into Paul saying the force of the law of God ended at the death of the Lord Jesus Christ.




The writ of charges...
In using the words “handwriting of requirements … contrary to us … nailed it to the cross,” Paul was describing the record of our sins, the indictment that required the penalty of death.

No, the indictments against believers, the charges against believers, the legal indebtedness against believers – was what was dropped, and nailed to the cross at the Lord Jesus Christ's death, rather than the law itself, which is consistently characterized in Scripture as eternal, and good...To wit:


Romans 7 KJV

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

“handwriting,”=a memorandum of debt, "a writing by hand" used in public and private contracts.


The wages of our sins—our debt—is death (Romans 6:23 KJV). The Lord Jesus Christ was willing to pay that debt by dying in our place, thus blotting out the record of our debt and pardoning our sins.

Survey the "death warrant" against us, because of our sin/sins is the sign that Pilate had nailed to the cross upon which the Lord Jesus Christ was crucified. John 19:19-22 KJV-It was customary to publish a writ of charges against the condemned, and the board above the Lord Jesus Christ's head was inscribed with the charges for which the Jewish authorities demanded His death. Thus, it was a Roman custom, to write the name of the condemned person and his crime on a plaque to be placed above his head at the execution. Survey Mark 15:26 KJV-"superscription of his accusation."

26 And the superscription of his accusation was written over, The King Of The Jews.




The charges removed-the meaning, then, of Colossians 2:13-14 KJV, based upon the immediate and the broader context is: You gentile believers had a death sentence against you due to your sin/sins-here are the charges............... But through the dbr, everything that one time could have been held against you has been removed.

The law against believers? No, it wasn’t God’s law that was against believers; it was the sins that they committed, as defined by that same holy, good law!. "the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,"= anything written by hand, but can more specifically apply to a legal document, bond or note of debt, was against us!!!!

Paul is relaying that the LORD God has "wiped out," removed, "nailed to the cross," through the body of Christ ,representing mankind's guilt, the instrument for the remembrance of sin. The legal basis of this instrument was the "binding statutes," Col. 2:14 KJV, but what the LORD God destroyed on the cross was not the legal ground, the law, for our entanglement into sin, but the written record of our sins. By destroying the record of sins, the LORD God removed the possibility of a charge ever being made again against those who have been forgiven-a dead man is not under jurisdiction to the law.

" Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,"


The above-a handwritten acknowledgement or note of debt, something like an I.O.U. When the debt was paid in full, the handwriting was invalidated by piercing it with something sharp like a nail.

This "handwriting" was also used in the case of the crucifixion or punishment of a criminal. All the charges of which the person had been found guilty, were written on a piece of parchment, and nailed to the cross on which the person convicted of those crimes would be crucified. Everyone could then see why he was hanging there and what he had done to deserve such a cruel punishment.This written indictment/charge/accusation are seen in John 19:19-20: accusations that were hung on the cross, on which the Lord Jesus Christ hung:

19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was Jesus Of Nazareth The King Of The Jews.

20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.

The "accusing witness," so to speak, against the sinner, the record book of his sins, the certificate of debt, or book of debt, was removed/nailed. The Lord Jesus Christ has "erased" it, removed it out of the court, out of the witness chair of the accuser. Not only is this record of our sins removed, but it is also "nailed to the cross" in the sense that the Lord Jesus Christ took our sins upon himself, and paid the penalty for them...Survey 2 Cor. 5:21 KJV.


When we talk about "nailing it to his cross", that is not the law itself, but the curse of the law, or the penalties for disobeying the Law. It was the penalty of the broken law which He rendered inoperative, not the law itself.

In that time period when a man was charged with a crime the charges against him were written down on papyrus. If he was found not guilty the papyrus was then washed down with water, removing or blotting out those charges against him, to confirm his acquittal. This abolished the written charges against the man. This is the what is referred to in "blotting out of ordinances against us" that were nailed to the Stake, not the Law itself.

The law is still God's standard of righteousness and all the requirements for the broken law remain unchanged, apart from Him.



Again-the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty.


The certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the cross.



Moreover, pardoning someone for committing a capital crime, doesn’t do away with the law that was broken. If anything, it shows that the law carries force, for without the pardon, the criminal would die!

In the same way, the law of God carries force since breaking it (committing sin) requires the death penalty. The law is that powerful, that important. It is holy. People aren’t saved from that which was against them (the death penalty) by doing away with the law. What saves people from death is the death of the Lord Jesus Christ in the place of those who trust 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.

In fact, the wording Paul employed Colossians 2:13-14 KJV showed that the law of God continues to carry great force. By saying the penalty demanded under the law of God was nailed to the instrument that killed the Lord Jesus Christ, Paul was showing that the law of God was still in force, still requiring death for sin.

By contrast, if the law had been brought to an abrupt end by the death of the Lord Jesus Christ, from that point on, nothing would be “against the law”-duh! Nothing could be called “sin.” Of course, we know that is not true. Sin exists, which means the law that calls it “sin” also exists!

The Lord Jesus Christ nailed to the cross what was contrary to him...

Ephesians 2:15 KJV "the law of commandments contained in ordinances;"
Colossians 2:14 KJV "the handwriting of ordinances"
Hebrews 7:16 KJV "the law of a carnal commandment"
Hebrews 9:10 KJV "carnal ordinances;"

What the Lord Jesus Christ abolished was carnal/fleshly commandments and ordinances, and hand written ordinances=that is the context..= the decrees of exclusion established by men, which were rooted in enmity between Jew & Gentile,such as “touch not, taste not, handle not”(survey Colossians 2:21 KJV), man-made social class/caste system set in place by Oral Torah, and Jewish leaders, attempting to keep a social and religious difference between Jews and Gentiles. Ordinances/decrees were laws that were man-made. Paul was referring to man-made orders, in this verse through the term “ordinance”. These “ordinances” were, yes, indeed hostile/”hate”/”enmity”, as they restrained anyone other than “Jews” worshiping God. These ordinances made a clear separation between Jew and Gentile, by elevating one above the other, to an “elite status,” to the extent where gentiles were looked down upon, scorned, and disassociated, by Jews everywhere………..



The Jews followed Paul everywhere that he went and persecuted him because he taught that the law had been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. You would be right there with them, persecuting him.

The law is a big part of your religion. Without the law there is a big void in your doctrine and in your religion. This is very common with religious reprobates such as yourself. They make the law their Jesus. Without the law their religion falls apart.[/QUOTE]
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Pate-anity:1Co 15:3 KJV For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died to destroy the law,according to Pate-anity, so that there is no sin debt incurred...


There is no condemnation because there is no law, it has been abolished,

Pate: We are not condemned, because Christ died for our sin debt, as there is no law, to define said sin debt; He died to destroy the law, so that there is no sin debt.
 

Rosenritter

New member
Exactly. And Checkmate. As He ceased His work of creation of this world and on the seventh day He rested...and was refreshed...didn’t need to but as an example to for to follow and reminder/memorial to all that He is creator of all...and to be with Him is to rest with Him...live His way...as He made for us...that is what awaits us as Isaiah wrote Sabbath to Sabbath everyone will worship...

A pattern established before the fall even...that is the original factory setting default...is why He remains Lord of the Sabbath it authorizes Him as creator

I'm afraid that your specific reasoning doesn't hold up. If God is setting the example for us of what we need to be doing, then we have our example that God does work on the seventh day.

John 5:16-17 KJV
(16) And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
(17) But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

Resting from the act of creation after six days of creation does not create a covenant binding all of creation in rest for every seventh day henceforth. Any such covenant would be part of a covenant, and that covenant which did have such a commandment has been declared obsolete.

Marriage was established around this time too I suppose you think that institution only for Jews too...only for the edenic covenant?

Marriage was declared in Eden, sabbath observances were not. Marriage is confirmed by the apostles in the New Testament, a continuing ordinance of sabbath observances are not.

And continuing that reasoning,

1 Timothy 4:1-3 KJV
(1) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
(2) Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
(3) Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

I have not found any such speech directed against "forbidding to keep sabbaths" or the like. Considering that "sabbaths" would be a far more foreign concept to the Gentiles than "marriage" you would think that it would deserve at least a word or two, at least one clear condemnation against "breaking the sabbath" had such a thing been a concern.

Simply put, it wasn't their concern. That which is said declares that we are not bound by former ordinances, but we are not to judge or be judged by such things as meats, days, sabbaths, and new moons.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame

The law is a big part of your religion. Without the law there is a big void in your doctrine and in your religion. This is very common with religious reprobates such as yourself. They make the law their Jesus. Without the law their religion falls apart.

=if the law exists, you are under it, condemned by it, under its jurisdiction.


This is dementia in action.


Pate: If the laws of foreign countries exist, U S citizens are under it authority, jurisdiction, and are condemned for breaking these foreign laws.

This is dementia in action.


I am a sinner.

Tell us what objective law you broke/break, Pate, since "sin is the transgression of the law," that makes you assert, that you commit sins. Go ahead.
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Spam. And no, you hate the gospel of Christ, perverting Paul's gospel, asserting that the Lord Jesus Christ did not die for our sins, and instead spamming, satanically, that he died to destroty,make void the law, so that there is no dsin debt incurred, since there is no law. And no, devil child, Colossians 2:14 KJV, you wicked deceiver, says no such thing, as I, other Christians(which excludes you, have showed you, demon.


No scripture say that God's perfect law was abolished, destroyed, eliminated, made void,deceiver, despite your spam, posting verses in isolation, deleting 3/4 of the bible, including, where it says:



Matthew 5:17 KJV Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Psalms 111 KJV

7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure.

8 They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.

....to "prove" his doctrine of demons."

He corrupts, perverts both Ephesians 2:15 KJV, Colossians 2:14 KJV, to prop up his satanic assertion that the perfect, holy, just, good, not void law of God, which reflects His character, is no longer in existence.


Thus, Pate, on record, asserts that Christ died in vain, there was no reason to die, as He did not need to die to pay our IOU/sin debt, as all the LORD God had to do, was destroy/abolish/make void/eliminate the law, so there would not be a sin debt/IOU. Thus, he then,like the devil attempts to satanically delete "the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV, replacing it with "law/ordinances," thus perverting, corrupting the scriptures, making it look like Paul says that Christ blotted out, made void, the law/ordinances, making it look like Paul is saying that the law/ordinances are contrary/against us, not for our benefit, instead of Paul saying that the sin debt/IOU/"bond indenture" was blotted out, as that is what is contrary to us, against us, as Paul asserts that the law is perfect, good, holy, just, spiritual, not void, in Romans 11, and the problem is with man, and the sin debt/IOU for breaking a good, holy, spiritual law, not the law itself.



Pate says the opposite, asserting that the problem is with the law, as it is not prefect/good/holy/spiritual,as he asserts that it causes us to sin, as it is sin, and the problem is not with man/him, and he asserts that the solution is to assert that Christ came to destroy/abolish/blot out the law, not to die for man's breaking the good, holy, spiritual, law of God.


He keeps satanically spamming this made up slop, that Col. 2:13-14 KJV has God's holy laws in view, being nailed to the cross. I, and others, have corrected you on it, over, and over, and yet you keep asserting this satanic "doctrine." One more time, to protect the sheep/babes, from your lies:

What was nailed to the cross is described as “the handwriting of requirements"-that was against us, which was contrary to us.” Because “ordinances” sounds like “law,” some, like sloppy Pate, twist the meaning of “nailed it to the cross” into Paul saying the force of the law of God ended at the death of the Lord Jesus Christ.




The writ of charges...
In using the words “handwriting of requirements … contrary to us … nailed it to the cross,” Paul was describing the record of our sins, the indictment that required the penalty of death.

No, the indictments against believers, the charges against believers, the legal indebtedness against believers – was what was dropped, and nailed to the cross at the Lord Jesus Christ's death, rather than the law itself, which is consistently characterized in Scripture as eternal, and good...To wit:


Romans 7 KJV

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

“handwriting,”=a memorandum of debt, "a writing by hand" used in public and private contracts.


The wages of our sins—our debt—is death (Romans 6:23 KJV). The Lord Jesus Christ was willing to pay that debt by dying in our place, thus blotting out the record of our debt and pardoning our sins.

Survey the "death warrant" against us, because of our sin/sins is the sign that Pilate had nailed to the cross upon which the Lord Jesus Christ was crucified. John 19:19-22 KJV-It was customary to publish a writ of charges against the condemned, and the board above the Lord Jesus Christ's head was inscribed with the charges for which the Jewish authorities demanded His death. Thus, it was a Roman custom, to write the name of the condemned person and his crime on a plaque to be placed above his head at the execution. Survey Mark 15:26 KJV-"superscription of his accusation."

26 And the superscription of his accusation was written over, The King Of The Jews.




The charges removed-the meaning, then, of Colossians 2:13-14 KJV, based upon the immediate and the broader context is: You gentile believers had a death sentence against you due to your sin/sins-here are the charges............... But through the dbr, everything that one time could have been held against you has been removed.

The law against believers? No, it wasn’t God’s law that was against believers; it was the sins that they committed, as defined by that same holy, good law!. "the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,"= anything written by hand, but can more specifically apply to a legal document, bond or note of debt, was against us!!!!

Paul is relaying that the LORD God has "wiped out," removed, "nailed to the cross," through the body of Christ ,representing mankind's guilt, the instrument for the remembrance of sin. The legal basis of this instrument was the "binding statutes," Col. 2:14 KJV, but what the LORD God destroyed on the cross was not the legal ground, the law, for our entanglement into sin, but the written record of our sins. By destroying the record of sins, the LORD God removed the possibility of a charge ever being made again against those who have been forgiven-a dead man is not under jurisdiction to the law.

" Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,"


The above-a handwritten acknowledgement or note of debt, something like an I.O.U. When the debt was paid in full, the handwriting was invalidated by piercing it with something sharp like a nail.

This "handwriting" was also used in the case of the crucifixion or punishment of a criminal. All the charges of which the person had been found guilty, were written on a piece of parchment, and nailed to the cross on which the person convicted of those crimes would be crucified. Everyone could then see why he was hanging there and what he had done to deserve such a cruel punishment.This written indictment/charge/accusation are seen in John 19:19-20: accusations that were hung on the cross, on which the Lord Jesus Christ hung:

19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was Jesus Of Nazareth The King Of The Jews.

20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.

The "accusing witness," so to speak, against the sinner, the record book of his sins, the certificate of debt, or book of debt, was removed/nailed. The Lord Jesus Christ has "erased" it, removed it out of the court, out of the witness chair of the accuser. Not only is this record of our sins removed, but it is also "nailed to the cross" in the sense that the Lord Jesus Christ took our sins upon himself, and paid the penalty for them...Survey 2 Cor. 5:21 KJV.


When we talk about "nailing it to his cross", that is not the law itself, but the curse of the law, or the penalties for disobeying the Law. It was the penalty of the broken law which He rendered inoperative, not the law itself.

In that time period when a man was charged with a crime the charges against him were written down on papyrus. If he was found not guilty the papyrus was then washed down with water, removing or blotting out those charges against him, to confirm his acquittal. This abolished the written charges against the man. This is the what is referred to in "blotting out of ordinances against us" that were nailed to the Stake, not the Law itself.

The law is still God's standard of righteousness and all the requirements for the broken law remain unchanged, apart from Him.



Again-the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty.


The certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the cross.



Moreover, pardoning someone for committing a capital crime, doesn’t do away with the law that was broken. If anything, it shows that the law carries force, for without the pardon, the criminal would die!

In the same way, the law of God carries force since breaking it (committing sin) requires the death penalty. The law is that powerful, that important. It is holy. People aren’t saved from that which was against them (the death penalty) by doing away with the law. What saves people from death is the death of the Lord Jesus Christ in the place of those who trust 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.

In fact, the wording Paul employed Colossians 2:13-14 KJV showed that the law of God continues to carry great force. By saying the penalty demanded under the law of God was nailed to the instrument that killed the Lord Jesus Christ, Paul was showing that the law of God was still in force, still requiring death for sin.

By contrast, if the law had been brought to an abrupt end by the death of the Lord Jesus Christ, from that point on, nothing would be “against the law”-duh! Nothing could be called “sin.” Of course, we know that is not true. Sin exists, which means the law that calls it “sin” also exists!

The Lord Jesus Christ nailed to the cross what was contrary to him...

Ephesians 2:15 KJV "the law of commandments contained in ordinances;"
Colossians 2:14 KJV "the handwriting of ordinances"
Hebrews 7:16 KJV "the law of a carnal commandment"
Hebrews 9:10 KJV "carnal ordinances;"

What the Lord Jesus Christ abolished was carnal/fleshly commandments and ordinances, and hand written ordinances=that is the context..= the decrees of exclusion established by men, which were rooted in enmity between Jew & Gentile,such as “touch not, taste not, handle not”(survey Colossians 2:21 KJV), man-made social class/caste system set in place by Oral Torah, and Jewish leaders, attempting to keep a social and religious difference between Jews and Gentiles. Ordinances/decrees were laws that were man-made. Paul was referring to man-made orders, in this verse through the term “ordinance”. These “ordinances” were, yes, indeed hostile/”hate”/”enmity”, as they restrained anyone other than “Jews” worshiping God. These ordinances made a clear separation between Jew and Gentile, by elevating one above the other, to an “elite status,” to the extent where gentiles were looked down upon, scorned, and disassociated, by Jews everywhere………..



The Jews followed Paul everywhere that he went and persecuted him because he taught that the law had been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. You would be right there with them, persecuting him.

The law is a big part of your religion. Without the law there is a big void in your doctrine and in your religion. This is very common with religious reprobates such as yourself. They make the law their Jesus. Without the law their religion falls apart.
[/QUOTE]


Amazing, you even quote scriptures that refute you, Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14. Why didn't you quote 1 Timothy 1:9, Where Paul said that the law is not made for a righteous man?

What did Jesus mean when he said, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but to fulfill" Matthew 5:17.

This appears to be a contradiction, but is it? Jesus took the law of Moses and spiritualized it. What Jesus taught was far more superior than the law of Moses. Not only did he spiritualized it, he elevated it also. His purpose was not to destroy the law, his purpose was to fulfill it. Having fulfilled it there was nothing left to do but to abolish it. This is why the scripture says, "For Christ is the END OF THE LAW for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Spoiler
add to that the fact that the idea the cross changed the customs of Moses was false witness and jewish slander against Stephen and Paul...Paul was innocent of those charges at his trials...is why he continued with Sabbath and festivals Peter even kosher


and fulfillment of the law is abolishing it yes? think NOT He taught...most of us dont claim a recipe is abolished when its instructions are fulfilled...heaven and earth remain so no jot or tittle have passed



as already noted the Sabbath commandment was the only one of the 10 which included non natives...other laws included them and ONE law for native and non native is repeated throughout as many non natives left with them into the wilderness...

It was NOT for anything israel did to earn salvation but for the promise made to their father...and STILL many left who where NOT blood sons of abraham...and they too were saved...

Saved and THEN given the law...faith first then obedience

yup...but Paul is clear the wall of seperation between jew and gentile was destroyed IN HIM...now there is no longer jew or gentile but ONE NEW CREATURE...and citizen of Israel...grafted in...adopted...but in its jurisdiction...my House a house of prayer for ALL NATION...from month to month (New moon to new moon) Sabbath to Sabbath all will come worship Isaiah added...



new as in new signers new problems fixed...yet the same old terms apply...signed by His blood and sealed by His death that new covenant a last will and testament of Yahushua can NOT be changed...He modelled how those wishing its promise should live...

yup finding fault with the PEOPLE and NOT the terms He then writes the terms in their hearts and minds instead of stone...





You did note the present tense of the text though? They ARE STILL a shadow...


Here is a good study on this:

https://www.cogwriter.com/news/chur...sons-more-do-not-keep-the-biblical-holy-days/


Spoiler
there is Law and then there are ordinances...like there are traffic laws and then specific tickets for breaking them fines directly at you like a military ordnance...and when that handwritten ordinance speeding ticket is blotted out the traffic laws still remain yes?



nope alas there is nothing there about the Sabbath...the days at issue were for days of fasting...no way sabbath days were a doubtful thing verse 1...but dont lose the kingdom over food verse 17

again not a small matter as it is part of their identity and history and Law...

Commandments were a description as to what life is like “where I am”...and what it was in the original plan before the detour of sin...and what it will be in the new world to come so “no stealing no killing no lying no adultery” you know the rest right?



Just remember the seventh day is Holy...and keep IT Holy...we dont make it holy and technically we dont keep it, the Sabbath keeps us...close to Him His ways...

I would also remind christians that they follow a ROMAN calendar...a tradition of man and not the calendar of Yah found in scripture...

Sadly christians now rather celebrate “the Treason to His seasons”...


“Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF Yahushua” can’t make it any simpler...does as He did...walk His faith walk...the faith OF Yahushua included Sabbath keeping...is why it remains Heb 4:9 for us to remain obedient to receive our final promise land rest



that the church we worship with now should look like that early church...the consistency is clear...same God same calendar same lifestyle same repentance same obedience same joy same promise same reward



the judiazers were insisting that goy believers HAD TO/MUST be circumcised to not only fellowship with them but be saved...that was never taught in the OT...circumcision NEVER saved as how can something done to an infant save it? Abraham was saved and then circumcised Moses was chosen then circumcised...it is always faith first and only which SAVES...after which comes obedience...

Only if the non natives wished to celebrate the Passover were they to be circumcised...but if not they still were saved from egypt...only if they now WANTED to enter the promise land because they were saved well...

But NEVER were non native believers FORCED into circumcision

Ans NEVER was it taught they had to do this in order to be saved...they already were

Faith first remember?

Besides as Yahushua taught all this was to teach “MERCY RATHER THAN SACRIFICE”...

Hebrews 10 admits this system did not could not do away with sin...and so it was necessary for HIM...which jews still reject

All of it ARE a shadow pointing to HIM...still


you do realize these four requirements were ALREADY in the OT for those that came out of Egypt yes?

And please don’t argue that if you kill a swine appropriately and drain its blood it is now made clean to eat...of course the gentiles could not bring swine into Sabbath potlucks...of course they did NOT WANT to after hearing of One Resurrected and Moses being read to them every Sabbath...



Paul was clear...if they wanted to hear more they were to return the next Sabbath...and the next sabbath nearly the whole city did...no where did Paul instruct gentiles to come on Sunday on “our new day of worship” or wed nite meetings



fixed it for you...we are now no longer foreigners but citizens of israel says Paul...

yup the new covenant in which there is NEITHER JEW NOR GENTILE...but we are citizens of Israel...HIS PEOPLE...by faith...adoption

yup...but again same terms written in our hearts and minds...ONE LAW there is not TWO ways into the kingdom


Here are they that keep ALL the commandments of Yah and the faith OF Yahushua...the same faith as the Lord of the Sabbath...

Think NOT He abolished the Law ok?

So, this is the latest Seven Day Adventist offshoot, huh?
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame


Amazing, you even quote scriptures that refute you, Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14.

Yes, I cited them, expounding on their meaning, and picking apart your satanic interpretation, and showing you, chapter, verse, from scores of other scriptures,that testify that the law was not destroyed, made void, as you satanically assert. It is only your dementia induced "Pate-anity" that argues this satanism.


Why didn't you quote 1 Timothy 1:9, Where Paul said that the law is not made for a righteous man?

1. I've quoted it often, you habitual liar, and I never said the law was made, in the sense of "rule of life," for the righteous man/woman, you vile deceiver,steeped in dementia, as you spam a devilish false dichotomy, asserting that if the law exists, it is made, is the"rule of life," for the saved person.

No, you devil child-the law still exists, for the purposes Paul states, but you, in your demonic drunkeness, as you butcher the meaning of words, assert, on record, with dementia "logic," that the law EXISTS FOR SOME PEOPLE, IS "UN-ABOLISHED," BUT DOES NOT EXIST, IS ABOLISHED, FOR OTHERS.


That is a symptom of dementia.

2. And I proved, from your own words, that you are under the law, as 1 Timothy 1:9 KJV asserts that the law was made for sinners, of which you admit that you are:

I am a sinner. All Christians are sinners.

1 Timothy 1:9 KJV knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

That is a symptom of dementia.

2. And I proved, from your own words, that you are under the law, as 1 Timothy 1:9 KJV asserts that the law was made for sinners, of which you admit that you are:

What did Jesus mean when he said, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but to fulfill" Matthew 5:17.

Pate-anity butchering, corrupting the above:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but to abolish"


Pate: "Abolish" means fulfilled.


Pate-anity:


Think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am come to abolish and destroy the law.




This appears to be a contradiction, but is it? Jesus took the law of Moses and spiritualized it.

False dichotomy-that does not mean he destroyed his own holy, good, spiritual law, made it void, as you satanically assert, demon.


What Jesus taught was far more superior than the law of Moses. Not only did he spiritualized it, he elevated it also.

Irrelevant, and a false dichotomy-that does not mean he destroyed his own holy, good, spiritual law, made it void, as you satanically assert, demon.

His purpose was not to destroy the law, his purpose was to fulfill it.

He lies, contradicts himself, more than he blinks.

Jesus came to abolish the law, so that we are not condemned....Jesus came to abolish the law because we cannot do it.

Having fulfilled it there was nothing left to do but to abolish it.

You just made that up, with your demonic "logic." Tell TOL why, Pate.


This is why the scripture says, "For Christ is the END OF THE LAW for righteousness to everyone that believes" Romans 10:4.



And you satanically change:

Romans 10:4 KJV For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.


To:For Christ ended the lawn for righteousness to every one that believeth.

...and satanically "interpreting it." Deceiver.

No, Romans 10:4 is making its conclusion, since the very design of the law, is to to bring men/women, to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, for justification and salvation, as He alone gives that forgiveness/pardon, and resurrected life which the law shows the want of, but cannot provide. The Lord Jesus Christ is the "end game," so to speak, the culmination of God's holy law, in the sense that it has pointed to him, as the school master, and has been finalized/realized in him. God's holy law has not ceased to have a necessary function, nor has it ceased to have any value, nor is it void. Survey Romans 7.......

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

The Lord Jesus Christ has not abolished/destroyed the law....

Matthew 5 KJV
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

......but the LORD God, through His Christ, has replaced it as the standard for righteousness, with His Christ. In this sense he has culminated the law as the "end game"/focal point of the purpose of God's holy law-Christ is the end game of the law.

But the book, in no way, asserts that God's holy law is destroyed/does not exist, or is "abolished."

The Lord Jesus Christ, being the "it is finished," is the holy law's goal, its climax, its inevitable outcome. Coming to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and what He did, is thus the resultant "end", the goal, with Him being the consummation to whom the holy law of God points.

Again, Paul does not say, or even imply, that the Lord Jesus Christ abolished/terminated the validity, function, and relevance of God's holy law. The purpose of this law, and most of "the volume of the book,"is to point us to our innate human need for a Savior, to "get us out" of our dire predicament, and realize that the law is now no longer our slave driver, as we came to Christ, and we are no longer under its jurisdiction, as pertaining to the penalty of sin(salvation), or the power of sin(sanctification), nor is it our "source for our "walk"-he is our "end."

Romans 3 KJV

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


Pate: The law has been made void!!!!


=satanism
 
Last edited:

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Yes, I cited them, expounding on their meaning, and picking apart your satanic interpretation, and showing you, chapter, verse, from scores of other scriptures,that testify that the law was not destroyed, made void, as you satanically assert. It is only your dementia induced "Pate-anity" that argues this satanism.t




1. I've quoted it often, you habitual liar, and I never said it was, you vile deceiver,steeped in dementia; as you spam a devilish false dichotomy, asserting that if the law exists, it is made, is the"rule of life," for the saved person.

No, you devil child-the law still exists, for the purposes Paul states, but you, in your demonic drunkeness, as you butcher the meaning of words, assert, on record, with dementia "logic," that the law EXISTS FOR SOME PEOPLE, IS "UN-ABOLISHED," BUT DOES NOT EXIST, IS ABOLISHED, FOR OTHERS.

That is a symptom of dementia.

2. And I proved, from your own words, that you are under the law, as 1 Timothy 1:9 KJV asserts that the law was made for sinners, of which you admit that you are:



1 Timothy 1:9 KJV knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

That is a symptom of dementia.

2. And I proved, from your own words, that you are under the law, as 1 Timothy 1:9 KJV asserts that the law was made for sinners, of which you admit that you are:



Pate-anity butchering, corrupting the above:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but to abolish"


Pate: "Abolish" means fulfilled.


Pate-anity:


Think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am come to abolish and destroy the law.





False dichotomy-that does not mean he destroyed his own holy, good, spiritual law, made it void, as you satanically assert, demon.



Irrelevant, and a false dichotomy-that does not mean he destroyed his own holy, good, spiritual law, made it void, as you satanically assert, demon.



He lies, contradicts himself, more than he blinks.





You just made that up, with your demonic "logic." Tell TOL why, Pate.






And you satanically change:

Romans 10:4 KJV For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.


To:For Christ ended the lawn for righteousness to every one that believeth.

...and satanically "interpreting it." Deceiver.

No, Romans 10:4 is making its conclusion, since the very design of the law, is to to bring men/women, to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, for justification and salvation, as He alone gives that forgiveness/pardon, and resurrected life which the law shows the want of, but cannot provide. The Lord Jesus Christ is the "end game," so to speak, the culmination of God's holy law, in the sense that it has pointed to him, as the school master, and has been finalized/realized in him. God's holy law has not ceased to have a necessary function, nor has it ceased to have any value, nor is it void. Survey Romans 7.......

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

The Lord Jesus Christ has not abolished/destroyed the law....

Matthew 5 KJV
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

......but the LORD God, through His Christ, has replaced it as the standard for righteousness, with His Christ. In this sense he has culminated the law as the "end game"/focal point of the purpose of God's holy law-Christ is the end game of the law.

But the book, in no way, asserts that God's holy law is destroyed/does not exist, or is "abolished."

The Lord Jesus Christ, being the "it is finished," is the holy law's goal, its climax, its inevitable outcome. Coming to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and what He did, is thus the resultant "end", the goal, with Him being the consummation to whom the holy law of God points.

Again, Paul does not say, or even imply, that the Lord Jesus Christ abolished/terminated the validity, function, and relevance of God's holy law. The purpose of this law, and most of "the volume of the book,"is to point us to our innate human need for a Savior, to "get us out" of our dire predicament, and realize that the law is now no longer our slave driver, as we came to Christ, and we are no longer under its jurisdiction, as pertaining to the penalty of sin(salvation), or the power of sin(sanctification), nor is it our "source for our "walk"-he is our "end."

Romans 3 KJV

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


Pate: The law has been made void!!!!


=satanism


You are the chief of all Pharisees.

Romans 7:1-6 is biblical proof that the law has been abolished. The last scripture Romans 7:6 is the death blow to your phony doctrine.

"But now we are DELIVERED FROM THE LAW, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of the spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter" Romans 7:6.

Jesus abolished the law because the law causes us to sin, Romans 7:9,10. The religious reprobate cannot see this because he is spiritually blind.
 
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