righteousness by faith (rxf)

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Gary K

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I guess I'll start in the OT and work towards the NT.

Genesis 15: 6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Exodus 31: 13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.

Ezekiel 20: 12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them.

Ezekiel 36: 25 ¶Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


Deuteronomy 30: 6 And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

I'm putting this verse from the NT here as it seems the natural place to put it.

Colossians 2: 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Psalm 4: 1 Hear me when I call, O God of my righteousness: thou hast enlarged me when I was in distress; have mercy upon me, and hear my prayer.

Psalm 8:
7 But as for me, I will come into thy house in the multitude of thy mercy: and in thy fear will I worship toward thy holy temple.*n3
8 Lead me, O Lord, in thy righteousness because of mine enemies; make thy way straight before my face.

I think this is enough scripture for the first post.

Here are a couple of quotes from Ellen White on rxf.

The birth of a son to Zacharias, like the birth of the child of
Abraham, and that of Mary, was to teach a great spiritual truth, a
truth that we are slow to learn and ready to forget. In ourselves we
are incapable of doing any good thing; but that which we cannot
do will be wrought by the power of God in every submissive and
believing soul. It was through faith that the child of promise was
given. It is through faith that spiritual life is begotten, and we are
enabled to do the works of righteousness. Desire of Ages p. 98

John was to go forth as Jehovah’s messenger, to bring to men
the light of God. He must give a new direction to their thoughts.
He must impress them with the holiness of God’s requirements, and
their need of His perfect righteousness. Desire of Ages p. 100

God takes men as they are, and educates them for His service,
if they will yield themselves to Him. The Spirit of God, received
into the soul, will quicken all its faculties. Under the guidance of the
Holy Spirit, the mind that is devoted unreservedly to God develops
harmoniously, and is strengthened to comprehend and fulfill the
requirements of God. The weak, vacillating character becomes
changed to one of strength and steadfastness. Continual devotion
establishes so close a relation between Jesus and His disciple that
the Christian becomes like Him in mind and character. Through a
connection with Christ he will have clearer and broader views. His
discernment will be more penetrative, his judgment better balanced.
He who longs to be of service to Christ is so quickened by the life-
giving power of the Sun of Righteousness that he is enabled to bear
much fruit to the glory of God. Desire of Ages p. 251

So those who are the partakers of the grace of Christ will be
ready to make any sacrifice, that others for whom He died may share
the heavenly gift. They will do all they can to make the world better
for their stay in it. This spirit is the sure outgrowth of a soul truly
converted. No sooner does one come to Christ than there is born in
his heart a desire to make known to others what a precious friend he
has found in Jesus; the saving and sanctifying truth cannot be shut
up in his heart. If we are clothed with the righteousness of Christ
and are filled with the joy of His indwelling Spirit, we shall not be
able to hold our peace. If we have tasted and seen that the Lord is
good we shall have something to tell. Steps to Christ p. 78
 
F

fzappa13

Well-known member
Well, that's a pretty big serving of scripture there. I would have to assume that you offered them in order of importance to a point you are trying to make. Having established the idea of our faith being accounted to us as righteousness as a general subject you moved immediately to the ordinance of the weekly sabbath as a more specific subject. Not surprising in that you are SDA and that is a matter of no small concern in SDA circles.

What would eventually become a close friend introduced himself to me by pulling in front of me and stopping as I was trying to make my way thru Kilgore, Texas in the center lane of a 5 lane highway on a recumbent bicycle. Conversation was pretty much inescapable at that point. As an SDA it didn't take him long to broach the subjects near and dear to his heart and not long after ascertaining that I was a Christian aspirant he braced me concerning the Sabbath. After discovering that I acknowledged that Saturday was indeed the Sabbath I guess the hook was set. He used to show me off to some of his fellow SDA the way a rancher might show off a two headed calf in that I was one of those rare folk that came to my conclusions concerning the Sabbath as a result of my own study.

For me, the Sabbath is like all of the rest of God's ordinances in that it is prophetic. It is a symbol of the greater thing to which it points. I would suggest that it points to the rest spoken of by Paul. It points to the thousand year reign of Christ here on earth. A day being as a thousand years and a thousand years being as a day we find ourselves at the threshold of the seventh day as it concerns the biblical account of man's presence on earth. My one overarching concern about moving the Sabbath from the last day of the week to the first is that it robs the Sabbath of its ability to impart this information. That said, I would not like to lose the possible gain of a relationship with someone who didn't understand that simply because we had two different understandings of said subject. Time has a way of working those differences out. I would suggest that the Sabbath is no more and no less important and worthy of our attention than any of God's ordinances and I would not point to it's observance as in anyway more pivotal in our salvation than any other as it concerns the righteousness available to us thru faith.

The rest of your scriptural offerings seem to weave in and out of the subject of righteousness and something else that is not yet clear to me. I'm sure you will bring that forth in good time. As it regards Ms. Whites' offerings I think her choice of the term "Sun of righteousness" when referring to Christ a poor one. As I'm sure you know, during the reign of king Constantine the Sabbath observance was moved to "the venerable day of the sun" as one of many efforts to reconcile his pagan and Christian subjects and I would suggest that we should steer clear of the Sun when casting about for an appropriate object for our veneration.
 
G

Gary K

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Banned
I just started in the OT for no particular reason not so I could preach at you as that does no good whatsoever for anyone.

I guess you will think the Bible recommends paganism for she is quoting scripture when she says theSun ofr righteousness.

Malachi 4: 2 ¶But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
 
F

fzappa13

Well-known member
Gary K said:
I just started in the OT for no particular reason not so I could preach at you as that does no good whatsoever for anyone.

I guess you will think the Bible recommends paganism for she is quoting scripture when she says theSun ofr righteousness.

Malachi 4: 2 ¶But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Click to expand...
Well, I stand corrected. Following the definition of "sun" in Malachi we come upon the following:

שֶׁמֶשׁ shemesh, sheh'-mesh; from an unused root meaning to be brilliant; the sun; by implication, the east; figuratively, a ray, i.e. (architectural) a notched battlement:— east side(-ward), sun (rising), west(-ward), window. See also H1053.

This word (8121 in the Strong's) has a much broader application of meaning than the following word in the Strong's which has the same spelling but a singular meaning:
שֶׁמֶשׁ shemesh, sheh'-mesh; (Aramaic) corresponding to H8121; the sun:—sun.

As we all know who the light of the world is and His approach upon His return will be from the East it would appear Ms. White's reference was appropriate.
 
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Gary K

New member
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Our of curious
fzappa13 said:
Well, I stand corrected. Following the definition of "sun" in Malachi we come upon the following:

שֶׁמֶשׁ shemesh, sheh'-mesh; from an unused root meaning to be brilliant; the sun; by implication, the east; figuratively, a ray, i.e. (architectural) a notched battlement:— east side(-ward), sun (rising), west(-ward), window. See also H1053.

This word (8121 in the Strong's) has a much broader application of meaning than the following word in the Strong's which has the same spelling but a singular meaning:
שֶׁמֶשׁ shemesh, sheh'-mesh; (Aramaic) corresponding to H8121; the sun:—sun.

As we all know who the light of the world is and His approach upon His return will be from the East it would appear Ms. White's reference was appropriate.
Click to expand...
Out of curiosity, where do you get the idea Jesus will come back from the east? I don't think I've ever heard that before.
 
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Gary K

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Right Divider said:
Mat 24:27 (KJV) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Click to expand...
This isn't saying Jesus is coming out of the east. It's talking about how far away lightning is seen as the Bible tells us every eye shall see Him.

Revelation 1: 7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
 
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fzappa13

Well-known member
Gary K said:
Our of curious

Out of curiosity, where do you get the idea Jesus will come back from the east? I don't think I've ever heard that before.
Click to expand...
Matthew 2:1Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

Ez 44: 1Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut.
2Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut.
3It is for the prince; the prince, he shall sit in it to eat bread before the LORD; he shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate, and shall go out by the way of the same.

Ez 43 1Afterward he brought me to the gate, even the gate that looketh toward the east:
2And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory.
3And it was according to the appearance of the vision which I saw, even according to the vision that I saw when I came to destroy the city: and the visions were like the vision that I saw by the river Chebar; and I fell upon my face.
4And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.

Isa 41: 1Keep silence before me, O islands; and let the people renew their strength: let them come near; then let them speak: let us come near together to judgment.
2Who raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings? he gave them as the dust to his sword, and as driven stubble to his bow.
3He pursued them, and passed safely; even by the way that he had not gone with his feet.
4Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.
 
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Gary K

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fzappa13 said:
Matthew 2:1Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

Ez 44: 1Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut.
2Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut.
3It is for the prince; the prince, he shall sit in it to eat bread before the LORD; he shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate, and shall go out by the way of the same.

Ez 43 1Afterward he brought me to the gate, even the gate that looketh toward the east:
2And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory.
3And it was according to the appearance of the vision which I saw, even according to the vision that I saw when I came to destroy the city: and the visions were like the vision that I saw by the river Chebar; and I fell upon my face.
4And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.

Isa 41: 1Keep silence before me, O islands; and let the people renew their strength: let them come near; then let them speak: let us come near together to judgment.
2Who raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings? he gave them as the dust to his sword, and as driven stubble to his bow.
3He pursued them, and passed safely; even by the way that he had not gone with his feet.
4Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.
Click to expand...
Very interesting. You know your Bible well. I had never gotten that before. You're scriptures have convinced me to change my mind.
 
F

fzappa13

Well-known member
Gary K said:
Very interesting. You know your Bible well. I had never gotten that before. You're scriptures have convinced me to change my mind.
Click to expand...
Well, that's why I'm here. To share what I've found while looking around to see if others came across something I missed. As an exercise in logic, imagine the earth spinning and the direction of it's rotation; anything approaching the earth from the equatorial plane would appear to be going from East to West.
 
Nick M

Nick M

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Gary K said:
I guess I'll start in the OT and work towards the NT.

Genesis 15: 6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
Click to expand...
That is the correct method. I'll read your post.
 
Nick M

Nick M

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With foreshadowing, you often do have to go back and forth. Be prepared to show the plot twist, or detractors will point out the obvious contradictions.
 
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Gary K

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I'll just move on to more scripture.

John 17: 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1John 2: 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Matthew 25:16 ¶Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Now I'll give another couple of quotes from Ellen White.

This comes from her book the Desire of Ages p. 668.

All true obedience comes from the heart. It was heart work with
Christ. And if we consent, He will so identify Himself with our
thoughts and aims, so blend our hearts and minds into conformity to
His will, that when obeying Him we shall be but carrying out our
own impulses. The will, refined and sanctified, will find its highest
delight in doing His service. When we know God as it is our privilege
to know Him, our life will be a life of continual obedience. Through
an appreciation of the character of Christ, through communion with
God, sin will become hateful to us.
As Christ lived the law in humanity, so we may do if we will
take hold of the Strong for strength. But we are not to place the
responsibility of our duty upon others, and wait for them to tell us
what to do. We cannot depend for counsel upon humanity. The Lord
will teach us our duty just as willingly as He will teach somebody
else. If we come to Him in faith, He will speak His mysteries to us
personally. Our hearts will often burn within us as One draws nigh
to commune with us as He did with Enoch. Those who decide to
do nothing in any line that will displease God, will know, after pre-
senting their case before Him, just what course to pursue. And they
will receive not only wisdom, but strength. Power for obedience, for
service, will be imparted to them, as Christ has promised. Whatever
was given to Christ—the “all things” to supply the need of fallen
men—was given to Him as the head and representative of humanity.
And “whatsoever we ask, we receive of Him, because we keep His
commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.”
1 John 3:22.

This comes from Steps to Christ pp. 47 48.

Many are inquiring, “How am I to make the surrender of myself
to God?” You desire to give yourself to Him, but you are weak in
moral power, in slavery to doubt, and controlled by the habits of your
life of sin. Your promises and resolutions are like ropes of sand. You
cannot control your thoughts, your impulses, your affections. The
knowledge of your broken promises and forfeited pledges weakens
your confidence in your own sincerity, and causes you to feel that
God cannot accept you; but you need not despair. What you need to
understand is the true force of the will. This is the governing power
in the nature of man, the power of decision, or of choice. Everything
depends on the right action of the will. The power of choice God
has given to men; it is theirs to exercise. You cannot change your
heart, you cannot of yourself give to God its affections; but you can
choose to serve Him. You can give Him your will; He will then
work in you to will and to do according to His good pleasure. Thus
your whole nature will be brought under the control of the Spirit of
Christ; your affections will be centered upon Him, your thoughts
will be in harmony with Him.
Desires for goodness and holiness are right as far as they go; but
if you stop here, they will avail nothing. Many will be lost while
hoping and desiring to be Christians. They do not come to the point
of yielding the will to God. They do not now choose to be Christians.
Through the right exercise of the will, an entire change may
be made in your life. By yielding up your will to Christ, you ally
yourself with the power that is above all principalities and powers.
You will have strength from above to hold you steadfast, and thus
through constant surrender to God you will be enabled to live the
new life, even the life of faith.
 
Last edited:
JudgeRightly

JudgeRightly

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Gary K said:
I'll just move on to more scripture.

John 17: 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1John 2: 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Matthew 25:16 ¶Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Now I'll give another couple of quotes from Ellen White.

This comes from her book the Desire of Ages p. 668.

All true obedience comes from the heart. It was heart work with
Christ. And if we consent, He will so identify Himself with our
thoughts and aims, so blend our hearts and minds into conformity to
His will, that when obeying Him we shall be but carrying out our
own impulses. The will, refined and sanctified, will find its highest
delight in doing His service. When we know God as it is our privilege
to know Him, our life will be a life of continual obedience. Through
an appreciation of the character of Christ, through communion with
God, sin will become hateful to us.
As Christ lived the law in humanity, so we may do if we will
take hold of the Strong for strength. But we are not to place the
responsibility of our duty upon others, and wait for them to tell us
what to do. We cannot depend for counsel upon humanity. The Lord
will teach us our duty just as willingly as He will teach somebody
else. If we come to Him in faith, He will speak His mysteries to us
personally. Our hearts will often burn within us as One draws nigh
to commune with us as He did with Enoch. Those who decide to
do nothing in any line that will displease God, will know, after pre-
senting their case before Him, just what course to pursue. And they
will receive not only wisdom, but strength. Power for obedience, for
service, will be imparted to them, as Christ has promised. Whatever
was given to Christ—the “all things” to supply the need of fallen
men—was given to Him as the head and representative of humanity.
And “whatsoever we ask, we receive of Him, because we keep His
commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.”
1 John 3:22.

This comes from Steps to Christ pp. 47 48.

Many are inquiring, “How am I to make the surrender of myself
to God?” You desire to give yourself to Him, but you are weak in
moral power, in slavery to doubt, and controlled by the habits of your
life of sin. Your promises and resolutions are like ropes of sand. You
cannot control your thoughts, your impulses, your affections. The
knowledge of your broken promises and forfeited pledges weakens
your confidence in your own sincerity, and causes you to feel that
God cannot accept you; but you need not despair. What you need to
understand is the true force of the will. This is the governing power
in the nature of man, the power of decision, or of choice. Everything
depends on the right action of the will. The power of choice God
has given to men; it is theirs to exercise. You cannot change your
heart, you cannot of yourself give to God its affections; but you can
choose to serve Him. You can give Him your will; He will then
work in you to will and to do according to His good pleasure. Thus
your whole nature will be brought under the control of the Spirit of
Christ; your affections will be centered upon Him, your thoughts
will be in harmony with Him.
Desires for goodness and holiness are right as far as they go; but
if you stop here, they will avail nothing. Many will be lost while
hoping and desiring to be Christians. They do not come to the point
of yielding the will to God. They do not now choose to be Christians.
Through the right exercise of the will, an entire change may
be made in your life. By yielding up your will to Christ, you ally
yourself with the power that is above all principalities and powers.
You will have strength from above to hold you steadfast, and thus
through constant surrender to God you will be enabled to live the
new life, even the life of faith.
Click to expand...

Reminder that posting in all bold text is against the rules. Please edit your post so that it's not all bolded.
 
G

Gary K

New member
Banned
I would add one more scriptural passage to my last post on Ellen White's writings.

2Peter 2: 2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
 
G

Gary K

New member
Banned
Here is more from scripture and Ellen White showing the agreement between them. There is a lot on righteousness by faith in her writings as it was her favorite subject.

Ezekiel 36: 25 ¶ Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

The Sign of a New Heart—[Ezekiel 36:26
quoted.] ... The youth especially stumble over this phrase, “a new
heart.” They do not know what it means. They look for a special
change to take place in their feelings. This they term conversion.
Over this error thousands have stumbled to ruin, not understanding
the expression, “Ye must be born again.”
Satan leads people to think that because they have felt a rapture
of feeling, they are converted. But their experience does not change.
Their actions are the same as before. Their lives show no good
fruit. They pray often and long, and are constantly referring to the
feelings they had at such and such a time. But they do not live the
new life. They are deceived. Their experience goes no deeper than
feeling. They build upon the sand, and when adverse winds come,
their house is swept away....
When Jesus speaks of the new heart, He means the mind, the
life, the whole being. To have a change of heart is to withdraw the
affections from the world, and fasten them upon Christ. To have a
new heart is to have a new mind, new purposes, new motives. What
is the sign of a new heart?—a changed life. There is a daily, hourly
dying to selfishness and pride (The Youth’s Instructor, September
26, 1901).

26 (Psalm 51:10). How the New Heart Is Kept—One of the
most earnest prayers recorded in the Word of God is that of David
when he plead, “Create in me a clean heart, O God.” God’s response
to such a prayer is, A new heart will I give you. This is a work that
no finite man can do. Men and women are to begin at the beginning,
seeking God most earnestly for a true Christian experience. They
are to feel the creative power of the Holy Spirit. They are to receive
the new heart, that is kept soft and tender by the grace of heaven.
The selfish spirit is to be cleansed from the soul. They are to labor
earnestly and with humility of heart, each one looking to Jesus
for guidance and encouragement. Then the building, fitly framed
together, will grow into a holy temple in the Lord (Letter 224, 1907).
 
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