REPORT: Nicer Than God - By Bob Enyart
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
PKevman
New member
There is a thread in ECT related to this called "Is satan an idiot"? HOW could he not be an idiot - in fact a complete plank - to think that he could take on a deity who could crush him in a millionth of a nanosecond if he chose to? If satan knew that God was all powerful as you say then what on EARTH would posess a being to be insane enough to attempt to rebel??!! This is why it just does not make sense, by this logic how can there be such a thing as eternal security because what is to stop man from suddenly becoming insanely rebellious? if satan was created as a perfect being then WHAT caused HIM to stumble?
And you can hardly equate being physically in the presence of God which if Satan was a litreral being obviously was - to being born in this world where people aren't, not everyone who is an atheist or agnostic or searching is doing so intentionally trying to deny God....
He wasn't condmened for doubting though was he?
Jesus taught love as the fulfillment of the law, not phariseeical legalism....
i've yet to see that, even if he is I see more important things to focus on.....
Um, peoples sexual lives ARE their private matters unless they bring them into the public domain, I'm not interested in the sexual life of a person when I meet them whether they're straight or gay, man or woman, like it or not you'll have met gay people without realising it and i fail to see how it should be at the forefront of a person, it's not exactly one of my opening questions to someone "oh, what is your sexual orientation?"......
And there ARE more pressing matters, if a half of the time devoted on here towards homosexuality was chanelled into combatting poverty, suffering, misery, stress etc etc then at least that would be something......
Nineveh
Merely Christian
Same thing that causes many of us to stumble: pride. Let's use dave for an example again, what makes dave think he can change God's Law? After all, God is smarter and much more powerful. Dave believes if a homo goes through a "commitment ceremony" created by some guy, that God Himself will change His view of those in their sin. It makes dave "feel good" that he can convince someone they can be "cleansed" while still unrepentant. In other words, dave is "more loving" than God. That is pride.
Yet that's what folks do on a daily basis.
Now, mind answering my question? What is satan? Or is this like many other esoteric "metaphorical" "understandings"? Meaningless and as vague as they need to be to be acceptable for your purpose at any given time, which usually revolves around trying to unsay something God has clearly stated.
He stopped doubting and accepted Christ had risen from the dead. Thomas could have continued his rejection, just as many others did. But on another point, Thomas doubted Christ when He was right there in his face, yet you say it would be impossible for someone to do such a thing.
Right, He corrected them, He didn't offer something new. The Law is Loving God first and your neighbor as yourself. Not making things up as you go along, such as a pharisee did.
I doubt he would deny it, and it points out you are in error, so I'm sure there *is* more important things to focus on than you being wrong. "Oh come off it, no-one here has condoned sexual immorality -"
Like homos.
Homos make the issue "out of the closet and in your face". That is a really lame excuse to evade your calling as a Christ follower and preach acceptance over repentance.
Poverty, suffering, misery and stress are not sins. Christ did not come preaching the gospel of comfort but of repentance.
Oh come on! pride?! Pride makes someone turn into the ultimate masochistic imbecile? WHERE did pride come from if Satan was created as a perfect being? How does pride not recognise that it really is a bit of a bad idea to rebel against a being that could destroy you without any effort -at all? A God that you would KNOW would be invincible and that any effort AT ALL you made to rebel would be completely and utterly CRUSHED!!!! You are talking abou t a being who if on a literal translation must have known God was undefeatable.....it does not make sense......
Because we're human beings and God knows that, perhaps you should do the same and realise that not all those who don't believe do so because they want to reject the idea that there is a God there who loves them
Yes, I think satan and the fallen angels are metaphor, metaphors for our own shortcomings, it makes more sense than believing in some idiotic being who knows he can't win and yet is given free reign and power over human beings for some reason......
Thomas doubted UNTIL he saw the proof he needed, and he had been a disciple - yet Jesus didn't condemn him for his unbelief
Love fulfills the law, the pharisees had very little of that in evidence and placed legalism above everything else....
I would certainly hope there are more important things to focus on even if I AM wrong! Dave can speak for himself the same as anyone else....
Like ANYONE.... :doh:
.
See, this is a sweeping generalisation that I'm not interested in anymore, like I've said you'll have met plenty of 'homos' in your time without even realising it, yet you CHOOSE to use the camp stereotype as reflective of them in general, if you wish to start askingprobing questions into the sexual lives of people you've just met then it's your perogative, i'm only interested in the person themself when I meet them to begin with and not their private life - sexually or otherwise........i fail to see what is wrong with that....
Ya, no-one said that they were sins did they? Merely that they should be focussed on and don't try and tell me that Jesus didn't put emphasis on looking after people the same as the story of the good samaritan......clothing those, feeding the hungry etc etc etc??
Ecumenicist
New member
Nice to know you're thinking of me
Dave believes that promiscuity is the real enemy, as described by Christ and Paul,
and supported by the reality of diseases like AIDS. All this hate directed against
people who have gender identities which don't match their physical attributes is a
waste of time and energy, and has nothing to do with God's laws.
have a nice day
PKevman
New member
Nice to know you're thinking of me
Dave believes that promiscuity is the real enemy, as described by Christ and Paul,
and supported by the reality of diseases like AIDS. All this hate directed against
people who have gender identities which don't match their physical attributes is a
waste of time and energy, and has nothing to do with God's laws.
have a nice day
Disgusting. People don't have wrong "Gender identities". Men are men and women are women. Little boys are little boys, and little girls are little girls. It's not any more complicated than that.
Well, lets start with 1 Corinthians 13 then.....
Nineveh
Merely Christian
Ok, then what did your "metaphorical" satan do to "fall"?
Check out a "pride parade".
He was created as a freewill being, just like us.
You mean like.... in the Lake of Fire? Why not ask Balder?
I'm still waiting for your "metaphorical" "enlightenment". When are you going to offer it?
But some do.
I already pointed out God did not have to wax "metaphorical" when pointing out evil does indeed reside within us. Got something that makes more sense?
Then do also you also believe the majority of humanity is merely a "metaphor"?
Because he stopped doubting. You evaded the second part though, didn't you? Christ was right there in his face and he was doubting, according to you, that can't happen.
Depends on W/who's idea of love you wanna go with. God's or the pharisees who like to make things up that bound people to their sin and kept them away from God.
You brought it up, and dave admitted it:
See? Dave supports homos. He makes up his excuses... out of pride, because he knows better than God.
I know you fail to see. It's because you put on your blinders of "red knows better than God", just like dave does. Hello? That's pride talking. How could you be such an "idiotic being"? Sexual immorality is a sin. That Law has never been repealed, no matter your rationalization. Yours is no better than dave's.
Jesus called folks away from sin that includes sexual immorality. He did not change the Law. Why is this so hard for you to grasp? Could it be.... pride?
For satan to be such an "idiotic being" he sure has snookered you and dave on the issue of sexual immorality.
Right, basically you think that satan was born a freewill being which means that he isn't actually the originator of sin, he was insane enough to believe he could defeat an all powerful God which really should have earned him a rehabilitation centre for his obvious and complete insanity, you have yet to make any explantion for why this should make any kind of sense, satan i believe to be a metaphor for the weaknesses of men, the number of the beast is the same as that of man, and yes, I don't believe in a literal 'beast' either, oh - and doubting Thomas only stopped doubting when he saw and felt the nail wounds if i recall correctly and he still wasn't condemned for it, at least I suppose you seem to admit that most peope who don't believe do so out of a hatred of God, carry on believeing we still live under mosaic law as you will, I won't and am tired of the lenghts people will go to to justify their fixation on the sex lives of other people......
Nineveh
Merely Christian
I take God at His Word, and can see this "insanity" you speak of infects men on a global scale. Now as for you esoteric metaphorical meaning. Describing men with it doesn't hold water. And what does "it's" "fall" imply?
What doesn't make sense is why God would use a metaphor for an angelic being when we read right away men are capable of evil in their own right. Are all angels metaphorical or just the one that you can't make sense of because he gives your wold view grief?
What else is a metaphor? Well, besides the Lake? Is Jesus? How much of Genesis? About the only book in the Bible dave takes literally are the poems. Is it the same for you?
Because he stopped doubting. Hello? He could have just told Jesus He was just a metaphor. Jesus then goes on to say that those who don't see yet still believe are blessed. Jesus tells us He stands at the door and knocks. Not just a few folks, but everyone. It's up to each individual to answer that call, or make an excuse why they won't.
Paul disagrees with you. "...for the law is our tutor to bring us to Christ". Once we have accepted Christ we are dead to the Law. Those who reject the Savior are not only still under the Law, they will be judged and condemned by it. Or is the Law a metaphor too?
Even a pagan like Balder can look honestly at the Creator God's Words, why can't you?
PKevman
New member
I wonder how much of the Bible Red does take literally. Who gets to determine what is and isn't a metaphor using that method of interpretation? How would anyone know if anything said is literal or metaphor? Jesus? Could He be a symbol of what is right? Maybe doubting Thomas was a metaphor to teach everyone that Universalists are right?
How wacked out do you have to be to believe this kind of garbage? Why not just take God at His Word, submit to Him, and stop trying to create theological systems that make you "feel good".
How wacked out do you have to be to believe this kind of garbage? Why not just take God at His Word, submit to Him, and stop trying to create theological systems that make you "feel good".
Oh ok pastor, then why don't you just submit to Tim 4:10 instead of trying to make some feeble argument about how one should interpret a verse that is crystal clear in it's own right? HARDLY the same thing as a passage from revelation about death and hell being tossed into a lake of fire from a chapter which is written in signifiers.... :doh:
Just how 'whacked out' do you have to be to believe that A God who is love would have the majority of the planets population writhing in pointless agony for all eternity? :dizzy:
But you can't answer me as to how this is suppposed to make sense can you? A literal being who has full knowledge tries to take on a creator who could destroy him and he KNOWS that? That is beyond insanity....
Thats what makes more sense though! Man doesn't need a literal satan to commit evil, if anything it's a copout to blame some other being for our own shortcomings, why not just accept responsibilty? And why do you think that to think of this as metaphorical gives my view any grief?
Oh, come off it, plenty of those who even believe in ET think the lake is metaphor, remember the chapter in which it appears? The one that is actually written in signifiers? Knight and PK have differing interpretations on it as well as a load of other people so it's hardly 'straightforward'
as for genesis I happen to take it metaphorically as well, so what? So do many others....
Hello? He stopped doubting once he'd had the proof that he required, he was not condemned for this and you dodge around the point that he didnt believe until he had had the proof....
Um, yeah, and look at what is required to fulfill the law, love.....
PKevman
New member
I have no problem whatsoever with 1 Timothy 4:10. Your problem is that you have set yourself up as the standard for which verses you want to take literally and which verses you don't take literally. Why do you accept that one literally and reject so many others and say they aren't literal?
My view is that this verse along with the others should all be understood literally. This is what is known as a literal or normative hermeneutic. But you don't care about that. You don't care about knowing God or His Word more deeply. All you care about is finding ways to dogmatically defend your humanistic doctrines, and get little pats on the back from your atheist and pagan buddies. You're lost and headed to hell, and unless you repent you will face the consequences of being God's enemy.
Isaiah 59:1-2 bears this out well for us:
1 Behold, the LORD’s hand is not shortened,
That it cannot save;
Nor His ear heavy,
That it cannot hear.
2 But your iniquities have separated you from your God;
And your sins have hidden His face from you,
So that He will not hear.
The Scriptures- 1
Red77- 0
Oh yes you DO have a problem with it, if you didn't you'd happily be able to read it for what it literally says instead of trying to twist it to mean 'only', the scriptures that you would read as literal are often from revelation which is a book in signifiers and hardly literal imagery, other parts of the bible are open to metaphorical interpretation because of the nature of the passages, I don't pretend to be 100% sure about every single verse and whether it's literal or metaphorical but there's plenty of passages that are crystal clear such as this one, you cannot interpret it, it says what it says...
And quite frankly where you have got this fixation that i get pats on the back from 'atheist and pagan' is all in your own head, I write what I think on here regardless of what you may think, I don't pretend that a good many agnostics etc on here make some good points and i'm friendly with some, so what?! i also still respect and am friendly with a great many christians on here from varying stances of belief, give it a rest........
Basically you seem to think that those who don't believe the same theology of you don't have an interest in the word, that is rubbish, sometimes it's exposure to the likes of the horrendous man made doctrines of ET that make you search all the deeper But i doubt you will care about that and will cling to your own dogmatic assertion that pointless torment is the truth despite the mockery it makes of love....