My question to you is if submitting to the rite of water baptism at Acts 2:38 was necessary for salvation?
No.
My question to you is if submitting to the rite of water baptism at Acts 2:38 was necessary for salvation?
Those from the Neo-MAD camp teach that the rite of water baptism mentioned at Acts 2:38 was necessary for salvation for the Jews who lived under the law.
I have always said that submitting to the rite of water baptism saved no one.
What do you think?
not at the same time JerrySo are you saying that Abraham was justified before God apart from works but at the same time he couldn't be justified before God unless he did works?
Is that your argument?
not at the same time Jerry
Abram moved from a covenant of grace
to
Abraham with a covenant of works
Jerry do you have an impairment we should be aware of?
See, you keep saying they lived under the law but then claim they didn't need to keep law.
Abram moved from a covenant of grace
to
Abraham with a covenant of works
However, you cannot seem to understand the Lord Jesus' simple words there because you continue to insist that those Jews could not be saved unless they believed and did works.
As they say, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. I have lead you to the truth about how the Jews who lived under the law were saved but I cannot make you believe that truth.
Your unbelief belongs to you and to no one else.
I said that keeping the law had nothing to do with their salvation. After all, they were saved by grace through faith:
"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).
Are you not aware that if takes works then it cannot be said to be of grace?:
"Now to him that worketh is the retard not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:4).
Even though you have been shown Romans 4:16 numerous times you continue to insist that those who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works!
Not only that, but the Lord Jesus told the Jews who lived under the law that if they just "believe" then they will be saved:
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).
However, you cannot seem to understand the Lord Jesus' simple words there because you continue to insist that those Jews could not be saved unless they believed and did works.
As they say, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. I have lead you to the truth about how the Jews who lived under the law were saved but I cannot make you believe that truth.
Your unbelief belongs to you and to no one else.
If someone lives under the law, then they are under the law no matter what you say.
You have claimed I insist on many things but you haven't even begun to hear what I've said.
You assume I have said everything you claim I've said, but you still don't listen to what I've said. Not once have you correctly related my beliefs....
what if one says that once you believed Jesus when He spoke or Paul's gospel you are no longer under the law/circumcision ?
there it is again - belief or unbelief
James was never saying that Abraham was justified by works before God.
In fact, in the prior chapter James tells us exactly how a person is born of God and therefore saved:
"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (Jas.1:18).
That certainly eliminates the idea that Abraham was under a covenant of works.
your always wrongIn chapter two James was speaking about what a man can know about another man's faith:
"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my work" (Jas.2:18).
As far as other men are concerned if a man says that he has faith but has no works to show to others then as far as those other men are concerned his faith does not realy exist so it can be described as being dead.
I am curious to hear what interpretation of the meaning you would put on James 1:18.
nothing we say to Jerry gets through his cult like filterActually, Jerry, I haven't insisted any such thing. I'm certainly leaning in that direction thanks to your feeble attempts at proving otherwise. If someone lives under the law, then they are under the law no matter what you say.
You have claimed I insist on many things but you haven't even begun to hear what I've said. You assume I have said everything you claim I've said, but you still don't listen to what I've said. Not once have you correctly related my beliefs....even those things I have said I didn't know, you have twisted around to say I'm claiming something I haven't. It's like trying to communicate with someone from a foreign country who thinks he understands how to speak the language. I think I need another break from your pig headedness. Yeah.....that's probably just exactly what I need. :surf:
can you read the following verses and see circumcision is a
necessary work
your always wrong
why is that ?
you know Jesus was not born yet when these words were given rightNot necessary for salvation. The Lord Jesus told those of the circumcision that if they believed then they were saved:
you know Jesus was not born yet when these words were given right
why do you keep backdating changes to how people were saved
Jews inherited salvation up until Jesus started his ministryDid you forget the subject of this thread which is the rite of water baptism of Acts 2:38? You do know that the Lord Jesus had said the following words to the Jews who lived under the law prior to that baptism, don't you?:
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).
Why should anyone believe that those Jews had to submit to the rite of baptism to be saved since the Savior Himselfsaid that if they "believed" they were saved?
Here is how Paul says that David was saved and anyone in their right mind can understand that being circumcised played no part in his salvation:
"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin" (Ro.4:5-8).
Jews inherited salvation up until Jesus started his ministry
You are clueless! And of course I never expected you to believe what the Lord Jesus said at John 5:24. All you are doing is trying to prove what He said there is in error.
It is impossible to have an intelligent discussion with someone who will just deny the words of the Lord Jesus there.