Religious Zealotry

[Right Divider]

The one getting emotional here is you.

Another of your many false claims.

How can a five year old be a murderer at all RD?

By the same criteria as anyone.

How are they in any way old enough to be aware of their actions at such an age, to act with full malice aforethought etc?

Again, this requires an evaluation... just like it does with anyone else.

Of course I've argued contrary with obvious counters based in logic and common sense.

No, you have not.

I effectively agree with Clete and if you think my argument is mere assertion then counter it. A five year old's brain isn't developed enough to understand matters the same as a fully compos mentis adult. If you disagree then provide an counter argument. Show me the criteria in the Bible that stipulates that minors are to be held as accountable for their actions as an adult.

Only if you will show me an age exemption with regard to this specific Biblical law.

 

[ok doser]

Murder of James Bulger - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Two 10 year olds that were convicted of murder.

Is there any reason to believe that two 9-year-olds who engaged in the same activities that these two 10-year-olds engaged in, couldn't justifiably be convicted of murder?

How about two 8-year-olds?

How about two 7 year olds?

Is there any reason to believe that the controlling factor here is age?

 

[ok doser]

Only is you will show me an age exemption with regard to this specific Biblical law.

I posted before seeing this. You have nailed it.

 

[PureX]

A five year old child can't be convicted of a capital crime for again - obvious reasons that have been outlined multiple times already. They're not old enough to be cognizant of their actions, to understand what they're doing in relation to ramification/consequence, integral components to their being justifiably accused, tried and convicted of murder.

The problem is that the mitigating factors involved in determining what is "murder" play havoc on the absolutist's fantasy of there being 'right and wrong and nothing else'. When we begin to actually apply that over-simplistic absolutist nonsense to the real world, it falls apart rather quickly. Threatening to bring on an awareness of the world as a very complex and nuanced experience. An awareness that the absolutists will try to avoid facing by any means they can muster; no matter how silly, rude, or dishonest.

 

[Right Divider]

The problem is that the mitigating factors involved in determining what is "murder" play havoc on the absolutist's fantasy of there being 'right and wrong and nothing else'. When we begin to actually apply that over-simplistic absolutist nonsense to the real world, it falls apart rather quickly. Threatening to bring on an awareness of the world as a very complex and nuanced experience. An awareness that the absolutists will try to avoid facing by any means they can muster; no matter how silly, rude, or dishonest.

Though you've probably never noticed it, but you are the biggest hypocrite on TOL.

 

[JudgeRightly]

The one getting emotional here is you.

False.

Of course I've argued contrary with obvious counters based in logic and common sense.

False.

... if you think my argument is mere assertion then counter it.

It's hard to counter an argument that is based on the assertion of a negative, not because such a counter would be incorrect or wrong, but simply because there's nothing to argue against.

A five year old's brain isn't developed enough to understand matters

Statistically speaking, it's not impossible for there to be a five year old who can, let alone one who could then commit a capital crime.

the same as a fully compos mentis adult.

English please.

If you disagree then provide an counter argument.

Supra.

Show me the criteria in the Bible that stipulates that minors are to be held as accountable for their actions as an adult.

Already provided.

 

[ok doser]

The problem is that the mitigating factors involved in determining what is "murder"

... are being taken into account by the people that you are denigrating as absolutists

play havoc on the absolutist's fantasy of there being 'right and wrong and nothing else'.

... I'm amused by your inability to recognize that what's being discussed is dependent on an absolute denial of ability based on a specific age, and an absolute fantasy of it being right or wrong based on that age.

What I find hilarious, what I always find hilarious when reading you, is how readily you paint yourself into a hypocritical corner

 

[ok doser]

Though you've probably never noticed it, but you are the biggest hypocrite on TOL.

And again I posted before reading this.

You keep stealing my best lines!

 

[PureX]

The problem is that the mitigating factors involved in determining what is "murder" play havoc on the absolutist's fantasy of there being 'right and wrong and nothing else'. When we begin to actually apply that over-simplistic absolutist nonsense to the real world, it falls apart rather quickly. Threatening to bring on an awareness of the world as a very complex and nuanced experience. An awareness that the absolutists will try to avoid facing by any means they can muster; no matter how silly, rude, or dishonest.

And ... here it is ...

Though you've probably never noticed it, but you are the biggest hypocrite on TOL.

 

[Right Divider]

And ... here it is ...

You're so cute when you cannot defend your calling others out for what you yourself are doing.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Another of your many false claims.

By the same criteria as anyone.

Again, this requires an evaluation... just like it does with anyone else.

No, you have not.

Only if you will show me an age exemption with regard to this specific Biblical law.

Well, if it is a false claim then it's equally false when you do it in relation to me.

Well no, it's not the same criteria as anyone as reflected in law. Adults are held to a different standard than children because they're fully developed whereas obviously children are not. If you disagree then explain how and why.

Either do or don't. Does the Bible need to stipulate what should be obvious in absolute black and white?

 

[Arthur Brain]

False.



False.



It's hard to counter an argument that is based on the assertion of a negative, not because such a counter would be incorrect or wrong, but simply because there's nothing to argue against.



Statistically speaking, it's not impossible for there to be a five year old who can, let alone one who could then commit a capital crime.



English please.



Supra.



Already provided.

Of course a counter argument has been provided to you. I don't particularly expect you to listen to me but you should at least listen to Clete who has countered it all ends up and whom I'm in agreement with on this score. That being said you've had the obvious pointed out to you prior whether you care to acknowledge it or not. How would a five year old be capable of fulfilling the criteria whereby it could be prosecuted, tried and convicted of a capital crime? Exponentially advanced in terms of mental development? Oh, the "English Please" bit I'm presuming is in relation to the latin Compos Mentis? Sorry, thought you'd be familiar with that phrase:

Definition of COMPOS MENTIS

of sound mind, memory, and understanding… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[Right Divider]

Well, if it is a false claim then it's equally false when you do it in relation to me.

Well no, it's not the same criteria as anyone as reflected in law. Adults are held to a different standard than children because they're fully developed whereas obviously children are not. If you disagree then explain how and why.

Either do or don't. Does the Bible need to stipulate what should be obvious in absolute black and white?

Yes, you need to show the Biblical law from the Bible. Murder is pretty important, so YES, it needs to be CLEAR (i.e., black and white).

 

[Arthur Brain]

Yes, you need to show the Biblical law from the Bible. Murder is pretty important, so YES, it needs to be CLEAR (i.e., black and white).

The Bible is clear on the score where it comes to murder. It's pretty clear that five year old kids can't be culpable of it.

 

[Right Divider]

The Bible is clear on the score where it comes to murder. It's pretty clear that five year old kids can't be culpable of it.

Why won't you SHOW the Bible (i.e., scripture) where it's "pretty clear that five year old kids can't be culpable of it"?

You make claims about what the Bible says, and yet you will not support your claim.

 

[JudgeRightly]

It's pretty clear that five year old kids can't be culpable of it.

Book, chapter, verse.

Please.

 

[ok doser]

Statistically speaking, it's not impossible for there to be a five year old who can, let alone one who could then commit a capital crime.

Statistically speaking ...

Is it possible for there to be a 5-year-old who can perform Mozart beautifully?

Is it possible for there to be a 5-year-old who can speak seven different languages fluently?

Is it possible for there to be a 5-year-old who could solve complex advanced mathematical problems involving higher order algebra and calculus?

It is.

It is possible for there to be some vanishingly small number of 5-year-olds who have the ability to do these things.

Is it likely?

Not at all.

But they do exist.

Is it possible for there to be a 5-year-old with the cognitive development to understand the consequences of their actions and to meet all of the elements of a capital crime? Statistically speaking, yes of course it is possible. The likelihood is vanishingly small, but it is a non-zero number.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Why won't you SHOW the Bible (i.e., scripture) where it's "pretty clear that five year old kids can't be culpable of it"?

You make claims about what the Bible says, and yet you will not support your claim.

Well, the Bible doesn't expressly state that two year olds can't be culpable of murder but why should it? Use some common sense.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Book, chapter, verse.

Please.

See above.

 

[marke]

No, because under law no five year old child can be accused of such. Do you think a five year old can possibly fulfil the criteria where he/she can rightfully be charged with murder? If so, how?

Five years old is pretty young but not too young to commit crimes. However, if we take a 5-year-old sinner, and teach him about homosex, it is possible to turn the 5-year-old sinner into an 11-year-old convicted rapist.

Boy aged ELEVEN is Britain's youngest rapist after being found guilty of a string of sex assaults

A BOY of 11 has admitted raping a nine-year old-lad – making him the youngest male on male rapist in the country. The defendant raped the youngest boy 15 times and was only caught when the vi…

www.thesun.co.uk

A BOY of 11 has admitted raping a nine-year old-lad - making him the youngest male on male rapist in the country.

The defendant raped the youngest boy 15 times and was only caught when the victim’s step-mum heard suspicious whispering on the baby monitor in her step-son’s bedroom.