Reconciled to God while enemies !

[marke]

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Those whom Christ by His Death alone, reconciled to God, even while unbelieving enemies, much more, they whom are so reconciled as enemies, shall be saved by His Life, their eternal salvation is secured.

These also whom are reconciled to God while enemies/unbelievers, Christ not only died for them as such, but rose again and is in heaven making intercession for them, even while unbelieving enemies. Rom 8:34

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

So we know by this that Christs death has limited effects, and wasn't for all men, those who are never saved !

If God had not first made it possible for sinners to be saved by reconciling the world unto Himself then no sinner could have been saved. But now the free gift of salvation has come upon all men by the reconciliatory death of Jesus so all sinners must do to be saved is to come to Jesus for forgiveness of their sins to be individually born again and reconciled to God.

2 Corinthians 5:20
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

 

[beloved57]

If God had not first made it possible for sinners to be saved by reconciling the world unto Himself then no sinner could have been saved. But now the free gift of salvation has come upon all men by the reconciliatory death of Jesus so all sinners must do to be saved is to come to Jesus for forgiveness of their sins to be individually born again and reconciled to God.

2 Corinthians 5:20
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Did you understand the post ? What are the points I articulated, lets discuss them.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Those whom Christ by His Death alone, reconciled to God, even while unbelieving enemies, much more, they whom are so reconciled as enemies, shall be saved by His Life, their eternal salvation is secured.

Nope.

The ones who "shall be saved by His life" are the "we" Paul just referred to... in other words, "us in Him."

One has to be "in Him" to be "saved by His life."

The condition God to save a person (which puts them "in Him") is if they have faith, which they can have after being preached to.

These also whom are reconciled to God while enemies/unbelievers, Christ not only died for them as such, but rose again and is in heaven making intercession for them, even while unbelieving enemies. Rom 8:34

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

So we know by this that Christs death has limited effects, and wasn't for all men, those who are never saved !

Christ's death was never effectively applied (nor was it meant to be, but is certainly capable of being so) to all men. It was FOR all men, should they choose to accept His free gift by faith.

Mans religion

Aka, Anything opposed to your particular beliefs...

oppose this truth of Christs reconciling death and saving life, and teach to the contrary, that many for whom Christ died, shall not be saved by His Life, and perish in their unbelief and sins ! Thats in direct opposition to the word of truth in Rom 5:10 !

No, it's just in direct opposition to your interpretation of scripture.

Scripture itself says no such thing.

 

[marke]

Did you understand the post ? What are the points I articulated, lets discuss them.

You said that you have concluded that since Christians are reconciled to God through Jesus's death then God must have had no love for the lost and no intention of ever offering them any escape from the hell He has prepared for His enemies. I do not agree with that ridiculous conclusion from that verse.

 

[beloved57]

Nope.

The ones who "shall be saved by His life" are the "we" Paul just referred to... in other words, "us in Him."

One has to be "in Him" to be "saved by His life."

The condition God to save a person (which puts them "in Him") is if they have faith, which they can have after being preached to.



Christ's death was never effectively applied (nor was it meant to be, but is certainly capable of being so) to all men. It was FOR all men, should they choose to accept His free gift by faith.



Aka, Anything opposed to your particular beliefs...



No, it's just in direct opposition to your interpretation of scripture.

Scripture itself says no such thing.

You totally dis what Rom 5:10 said.

 

[beloved57]

You said that you have concluded that since Christians are reconciled to God through Jesus's death then God must have had no love for the lost and no intention of ever offering them any escape from the hell He has prepared for His enemies. I do not agree with that ridiculous conclusion from that verse.

You came way out of left field !

 

[JudgeRightly]

You totally dis what Rom 5:10 said.

Here's what Romans 5:6-11 says:

For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die.But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation. - Romans 5:6-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans5:6-11&version=NKJV

Paul says Christ died for the ungodly.

Paul says that there's no need to die for someone who's righteous, or to phrase it so a calvinist will understand it, there's no reason to die for someone if God, before the foundation of the world, decided that they would be saved regardless of any of their own decisions.

Paul says that God showed His love for us by dying for sinners, showing us that He truly is "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

Paul says that those who have been justified by His blood shall be saved from wrath through Him...

How is one justified? By being called (Romans 8:30). How is one called? By having the gospel preached to him (2 Thessalonians 2:13-14). The calling (preaching of the gospel) enables whoever hears it to respond to the preaching of the gospel, for one cannot believe unless he hears the gospel, just like one cannot grab a life preserver if one isn't thrown to him, but once it has been, he can either grab onto it, or continue to sink into the water and eventually drown. By hearing the call to come to Christ through the gospel, a man can (because he has been drawn) come to Christ (John 6:44) and believe, which leads to calling upon the name of Christ, and whoever calls on the name of Christ shall be saved (Romans 10:13) because Romans 10:9-10!

​

Paul says that God reconciled even His enemies through the death of His Son, and having been reconciled, they can be saved by His life, if they believe and confess. Those who believe and confess shall be saved by His life.

Paul says that those who have received the reconciliation can rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ!

So no, I don't "dis" (your spelling needs to be worked on, it's "diss," not "dis," because you're using it as a verb) Romans 5:10 at all. I simply allow it to say what it says naturally.

 

[beloved57]

Here's what Romans 5:6-11 says:

For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die.But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation. - Romans 5:6-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans5:6-11&version=NKJV

Paul says Christ died for the ungodly.

Paul says that there's no need to die for someone who's righteous, or to phrase it so a calvinist will understand it, there's no reason to die for someone if God, before the foundation of the world, decided that they would be saved regardless of any of their own decisions.

Paul says that God showed His love for us by dying for sinners, showing us that He truly is "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

Paul says that those who have been justified by His blood shall be saved from wrath through Him...

How is one justified?

​

​ By being called (Romans 8:30).​ ​ How is one called? By having the gospel preached to him (2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).​ ​ The calling (preaching of the gospel) enables whoever hears it to respond to the preaching of the gospel, for one cannot believe unless he hears the gospel, just like one cannot grab a life preserver if one isn't thrown to him, but once it has been, he can either grab onto it, or continue to sink into the water and eventually drown.​ ​ By hearing the call to come to Christ through the gospel, a man can (because he has been drawn) come to Christ (John 6:44) and believe, which leads to calling upon the name of Christ, and whoever calls on the name of Christ shall be saved (Romans 10:13) because Romans 10:9-10!​

​

Paul says that God reconciled even His enemies through the death of His Son, and having been reconciled, they can be saved by His life, if they believe and confess. Those who believe and confess shall be saved by His life.

Paul says that those who have received the reconciliation can rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ!

So no, I don't "dis" (your spelling needs to be worked on, it's "diss," not "dis," because you're using it as a verb) Romans 5:10 at all. I simply allow it to say what it says naturally.

I already know what it says. Those who had been reconciled to God by Christs death, shall be saved by His Life, its pretty plain sir ! Read it Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

jr misquote

Paul says that God reconciled even His enemies through the death of His Son, and having been reconciled, they can be saved by His life,

It doesnt say can by saved by His Life, it says SHALL be saved by His Life. Do you know and understand the difference between can be and shall be ?

 

[JudgeRightly]

jr misquote[/B] ... It doesn't say can by saved by His Life, it says SHALL be saved by His Life. Do you know and understand the difference between can be and shall be?

I wasn't quoting the verse there. So no misquote at all.

Read what I said again.

 

[beloved57]

I wasn't quoting the verse there. So no misquote at all.

Read what I said again.

So if it wasnt a misquote, it was deliberate, and not founded on scripture. What does Rom 5:10 say about those who were reconciled to God by Christs death while being enemies, they shall what ? Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[JudgeRightly]

So if it wasn't a misquote, it was deliberate, and not founded on scripture.

What I said was a corollary of the verse, and thus, by definition, founded on scripture.

What does Rom 5:10 say about those who were reconciled to God by Christs death while being enemies, they shall what ? Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

"We."

When WE were enemies, WE were reconciled, and WE shall be saved.

Who is the WE Paul is speaking of?

"Us in Him."

NOT

"Those who were unilaterally chosen by God for an unknown reason before the foundation of the earth."

 

[beloved57]

What I said was a corollary of the verse, and thus, by definition, founded on scripture.



"We."

When WE were enemies, WE were reconciled, and WE shall be saved.

Who is the WE Paul is speaking of?

"Us in Him."

NOT

"Those who were unilaterally chosen by God for an unknown reason before the foundation of the earth."

I showed what Rom 5:10 said. According to Rom 5:10 those who were reconciled to God by the death of Christ, while they were enemies, whats the promise concerning them :

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I showed what Rom 5:10 said. According to Rom 5:10 those who were reconciled to God by the death of Christ, while they were enemies, whats the promise concerning them :

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

I know what Romans 5:10 says.

I'm telling you that the verse is specifically talking about those who are "in Him," the same "us in Him" as in Ephesians 1:4. It has nothing to do with anyone other than the "us in Him" group.

 

[beloved57]

I know what Romans 5:10 says.

I'm telling you that the verse is specifically talking about those who are "in Him," the same "us in Him" as in Ephesians 1:4. It has nothing to do with anyone other than the "us in Him" group.

What does it say then ? Whats the promise ?

 

[JudgeRightly]

What does it say then ? Whats the promise ?

It says that those "in Him" shall be saved.

Which does not conflict with what I've been saying this entire time.

 

[beloved57]

It says that those "in Him" shall be saved.

Which does not conflict with what I've been saying this entire time.

No Rom 5:10 says nothing about in Him, its talking about people who Christ died for. Lets break it down Rom 5:10

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

How were the we [believers] reconciled to God while they were enemies ?

 

[JudgeRightly]

No Rom 5:10 says nothing about in Him,

Yes it does. Paul just doesn't use the term "us in Him" or "in Him."

What he DOES use is "we."

He's including himself in what's he's saying.

He's one of those "in Him."

its talking about people who Christ died for.

Wrong. Paul is talking about believers, those who have faith.

Lets break it down Rom 5:10

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

How were the we [believers]

I'm glad you agree with what I said above.

reconciled to God while they were enemies

We were reconciled through the death of His Son, and shall be saved by His life.

But this is still missing the point I'm trying to make to you, which is that you're arbitrarily excluding the possibility that someone who has not yet believed can believe when the gospel is preached to him, and therefore join the group "in Him" through the death of His Son, and be saved by His life.

You keep lumping the "reconciled" and "saved" parts together as if they're one entity. They're not. They are two very different things.

Reconciled means to restore friendly relations between two or more parties. It doesn't mean to save them. It just means that where before there was a huge empty chasm between God and unbelievers, namely the world, now there is a bridge made with Christ's blood on the cross that spans the gap, so that, by His mercy, should they choose to believe, they will be saved.

Christ's death reconciled the world to God.

But not all the world will be saved, because they refuse to believe. Only those who believe will be saved.

It's so simple it's mind boggling how you can completely miss it, no, completely screw it up!

 

[beloved57]

jr

We were reconciled through the death of His Son, and shall be saved by His life.

Okay the we are believers, now what were they when reconciled to God by the death of His Son according to Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[beloved57]

To be reconciled to God by the Death of His Son, entails two things for them He died for,

Forgiveness/Justification and non imputation of sin and imputation of righteousness which again is Justification, and this while being enemies.

 

[marke]

To be reconciled to God by the Death of His Son, entails two things for them He died for,

Forgiveness/Justification and non imputation of sin and imputation of righteousness which again is Justification, and this while being enemies.

God will not forgive a sinner that does not humble himself at the preaching of the Gospel and seek forgiveness on the basis of Jesus' shed blood.