Real Science Radio's List of Evidence Against the Big Bang

[Stripe]

The Big Bang is a uniquely atheist position.

Evolutionists love to talk about who believes what instead of engaging over the evidence.

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

Evolutionists love to talk about who believes what instead of engaging over the evidence.

...Collins writes about the fine tuned universe, atheists argue against it.

 

[gcthomas]

Evolutionists love the genetic fallacy.

"Evolutionists love.." comments are themselves genetic fallacies!

Silly Stripe!

 

[6days]

DS, you are passionate about defending your beliefs...Too bad you aren't passionate about logic.
I'm not the only one who has pointed out your use of illogical fallacy arguments. Another example here...

Ahhhh....Very good DS! You are correct. That is what the 'fine tuned' debate is all about.
That explains why when a scientist such as Collins writes about the fine tuned universe, atheists argue against it.

Strange then that the Big Bang was first proposed by a theist, isn't it?

STRAWMAN ( and moving goalposts)
Has anyone said a theist can't believe in the Big Bang? No! (Many do)
I believe its an inconsistent belief with God's Word, however that is a different argument.

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

DS, you are passionate about defending your beliefs...Too bad you aren't passionate about logic.
I'm not the only one who has pointed out your use of illogical fallacy arguments. Another example here...

And yet your and Stripes analysis of what fallacy I'm supposedly committing seems to be all over the place.

Has anyone said a theist can't believe in the Big Bang?

You've implied numerous times that the Big bang is the domain of atheists. The fact that you apparently believe fine-tuning refutes the Big Bang, tells me that you think it a uniquely atheist position.

 

[Stripe]

And yet your and Stripes analysis of what fallacy I'm supposedly committing seems to be all over the place.

You seem to insist on using all of them. :idunno:

You've implied numerous times that the Big bang is the domain of atheists. The fact that you apparently believe fine-tuning refutes the Big Bang, tells me that you think it a uniquely atheist position.

Evolutionists love arguing against what they think their opponent should say.

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

You seem to insist on using all of them. :idunno:

Yes Stripe, that one sentence committed every fallacy or so you will have us believe. What I said was not a genetic fallacy, it was a valid refutation via counter-example of the "Atheist Big Bang" subtext that you and 6days are willing to imply, but unwilling to acknowledge. As seen in the proceeding paragraph. It would have been a genetic fallacy if the original context of the Big Bang theory, had changed to such an extent that theists no longer believe the Big Bang anymore, which is not the case much to your chagrin.

Evolutionists love arguing against what they think their opponent should say.

I'm arguing what has already been said, namely the Fine Tuning argument, which is in no uncertain terms an argument for the existence of God. The subtext here is that the Big Bang is the domain of atheists, and to prove God is to disprove the Big Bang.

 

[6days]

I'm arguing what has already been said, naàmely the Fine Tuning argument, which is in no uncertain terms an argument for the existence of God. The subtext here is that the Big Bang is the domain of atheists, and to prove God is to disprove the Big Bang.

DS...you seem to have no sense of logic. Even when we point out your fallacy strawmans, you persist. You are trying to beat up on an argument that no one has made - other than yourself. So, once again....
YES - The ' fine tuning' of the universe is an argument, or evidence, for the existence of God.
NO - The BB is not the "domain of atheists". Many theists believe that model including most Muslims. However, they also believe that the Creator was involved and designed this planet for humans.

In the beginning, God created

 

[Stripe]

Evolutionists have nothing if they are denied their fallacies.

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

DS...you seem to have no sense of logic.

Or so you keep insisting.

Even when we point out your fallacy strawmans, you persist.

Or rather you are eager to declare them in situations that do not apply. That you are unwilling to acknowledge the implications of your argument does not make mine a strawman.

YES - The ' fine tuning' of the universe is an argument, or evidence, for the existence of God.
NO - The BB is not the "domain of atheists". Many theists believe that model including most Muslims. However, they also believe that the Creator was involved and designed this planet for humans.

If both of these premises were true, then it does not follow that Fine Tuning refutes the Big Bang. So either you actually were insisting that the Big Bang is the position of Atheists, or your previous arguments were erroneous. I await your response.

 

[Stripe]

That you are unwilling to acknowledge the implications of your argument does not make mine a strawman.

Evolutionists love to talk about implications. Anything but a rational discussion of the topic at hand.

If both of these premises were true, then it does not follow that Fine Tuning refutes the Big Bang.

Evolutionists love straw men. They cannot resist.

So either you actually were insisting that the Big Bang is the position of Atheists, or your previous arguments were erroneous. I await your response.

6D just got finished clearly declaring that there are theists who hold to the Big Bang and he previously agreed with you that the fine tuning argument was a theological point.

You are nothing but a troll. :troll:

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

6D just got finished clearly declaring that there are theists who hold to the Big Bang and he previously agreed with you that the fine tuning argument was a theological point.

Paul Davies (British astrophysicist) "There is for me powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all....It seems as though somebody has fine-tuned nature’s numbers to make the Universe....The impression of design is overwhelming" From his book "Superforce: The Search for a Grand Unified Theory of Nature" ... Jason Lisle (astrophysicist) "The big bang has many scientific problems. These problems are symptomatic of the underlying incorrect worldview. The big bang erroneously assumes that the universe was not supernaturally created, but that it came about by natural processes billions of years ago. However, reality does not line up with this notion. Biblical creation explains the evidence in a more straightforward way without the ubiquitous speculations prevalent in secular models. But ultimately, the best reason to reject the big bang is that it goes against what the Creator of the universe himself has taught: “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth” (Genesis 1:1) ...evidence that the universe has not evolved from the Big Bang. Evolutionists generally reject all evidence that we live in a designed universe. (See 'fine tuned', above)

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

This backpedaling would probably be more successful if there wasn't a record of everything that was said.

 

[6days]

This backpedaling would probably be more successful if there wasn't a record of everything that was said.

As said before....you have a problem with logic... I think you have even lost track of what point you are trying to make?

So once again.....
The fine tuned evidence is evidence of the Creator.
There are some theists who believe in the big bang, but still believe we live in a fine tuned universe.
There are some theists who don't agree with the Big Bang.

In the beginning, God created.

 

[Daedalean's_Sun]

The fine tuned argument* is evidence of the Creator.
There are some theists who believe in the big bang, but still believe we live in a fine tuned universe.
There are some theists who don't agree with the Big Bang.

Which again, if this were true then it does not follow that fine tuning refutes the Big Bang. So either you actually were insisting that the Big Bang is the position of Atheists, or your previous arguments were erroneous.

 

[Stripe]

Which again, if this were true then it does not follow that fine tuning refutes the Big Bang. So either you actually were insisting that the Big Bang is the position of Atheists, or your previous arguments were erroneous.

The fine tuning argument is directed at atheists.

Evolutionists will argue about anything to avoid a coherent discussion about the topic at hand.

From Google Nexus and the TOL app!

 

[Jukia]

you can look at the universe and it may seem fine tuned. But since it is the only one we have I dont see that as evidence for your Biblical deity. It is simply the universe we have.

 

[6days]

The fine tuned argument* is evidence of the Creator.
There are some theists who believe in the big bang, but still believe we live in a fine tuned universe.
There are some theists who don't agree with the Big Bang.

Which again, if this were true then it does not follow that fine tuning refutes the Big Bang. So either you actually were insisting that the Big Bang is the position of Atheists, or your previous arguments were erroneous.

You are going from strawman arguments to outright dishonesty.
I'm unaware of anyone saying 'fine tuning' refutes the Big Bang. You are so anxious to protect your beliefs, that evidence and truth don't matter to you.
Jefferson did say that fine tuning is one of many evidences against the Big Bang. I have said theists believe 'fine tuning' is evidence of our Creator.

Are you able to look at the evidence of find tuning and entertain the idea that a "super intellect" may be responsible? Are you willing to follow the evidence to the Creator God of the Bible?

 

[Jukia]

You are going from strawman arguments to outright dishonesty.
I'm unaware of anyone saying 'fine tuning' refutes the Big Bang. You are so anxious to protect your beliefs, that evidence and truth don't matter to you.
Jefferson did say that fine tuning is one of many evidences against the Big Bang. I have said theists believe 'fine tuning' is evidence of our Creator.

Are you able to look at the evidence of find tuning and entertain the idea that a "super intellect" may be responsible? Are you willing to follow the evidence to the Creator God of the Bible?

clearly the fine tuned universe is the result of the FSM

 

[6days]

you can look at the universe and it may seem fine tuned. But since it is the only one we have I dont see that as evidence for your Biblical deity. It is simply the universe we have.

Fortunately most scientists are curious about WHY things are a certain way. If our universe appears designed...maybe it was designed.

Our fine tuned universe is but one of many evidences for the "Biblical Diety".