Real Science Radio: Plate Tectonics. Not.

doloresistere

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How would the asthenosphere possibly get thinner, otherwise?

By changing the zone of ductility. This is dependent upon temperature. Isostatic forces cause changes in the depths that certain temperatures are found in the mantle. The lithosphere changes into asthenosphere at about 1700 C. The depth of this temperature does not stay the same.
 

Daedalean's_Sun

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By changing the zone of ductility. This is dependent upon temperature. Isostatic forces cause changes in the depths that certain temperatures are found in the mantle. The lithosphere changes into asthenosphere at about 1700 C. The depth of this temperature does not stay the same.

And what causes the change of temperatures in the mantle?
 

Yorzhik

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The seafloor does contain magnetic particles, we call it iron. The seafloor is composed of iron-rich silicate. The iron aligns itself to the magnetic field of the earth when it is still in a molten state, and can move relatively freely. Once solidified, the iron particulates can no longer move freely.
The rest of what you said makes no sense. You should try reading what I said with what you just said above. Then my claim would be obviously correct.

Just to explain how truly asinine your claim is if there were particles in the seafloor that were capable of attracting and repelling magnetic materials around them, then each particle would have both a positive and negative pole and so you would never get say 6 miles of the uniform polarity. If you still don't believe me I have an experiment for you, try this, take a magnet and break it in half. What happens? Then break each half into two more halves. What happens? Now break those halves each into two more halves? What do you have now? Do you see where I'm going with this? You're not going to have 6 mile bands of uniform polarity unless you have a solid magnet at least 12 miles wide.

If you find a 12 mile wide solid magnet on the seafloor, you let us know.
Here's a hint; The pen in a doctor's pocket has a much larger gravitational influence on a newborn baby than all the stars (sans the sun) in the universe combined.
 

Daedalean's_Sun

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The rest of what you said makes no sense. You should try reading what I said with what you just said above. Then my claim would be obviously correct.

Your claim isn't "obviously correct" which is why experts on this matter virtually all disagree with you. I'm absolutely astounded that you are still trying to defend this risible claim.

Lodestones are naturally forming magnets, they have a North and South pole, and they generate a magnetic field around them, to which magnetic materials (like iron) respond. Lodestones are quite rare in nature. I'm not aware of any significant source of lodestones on the seafloor. Your assertion is that within the bands themselves there is an attractive and repelling force, and thus it dictates the orientation of adjacent bands. This is simply not true.

But lets for the sake of argument say the seafloor was littered with lodestone granules (it's not). Firstly they would not orientate into neat parallel bands, assuming the lodestones are round, they would clump together radially. Secondly, the clumping would be twice as wide as the granules themselves. You wouldn't get several kilometers of uniform polarity, NNNNNNNNN, or SSSSSSSS, instead you'd get something like NSNSNSNS. Thirdly, you only get the striping or banding because of the cooling magma of seafloor spreading.

sea%20floor%20spreading2.gif



The iron particles can only orientate themselves when the rock is molten and the particles relatively free to move. Once the rock cools they can no longer move. Any sort of magnet or lodestone subject to this process would melt losing it's properties to attract and repel.
 

Yorzhik

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Your claim isn't "obviously correct" which is why experts on this matter virtually all disagree with you. I'm absolutely astounded that you are still trying to defend this risible claim.

Lodestones are naturally forming magnets, they have a North and South pole, and they generate a magnetic field around them, to which magnetic materials (like iron) respond. Lodestones are quite rare in nature. I'm not aware of any significant source of lodestones on the seafloor. Your assertion is that within the bands themselves there is an attractive and repelling force, and thus it dictates the orientation of adjacent bands. This is simply not true.

But lets for the sake of argument say the seafloor was littered with lodestone granules (it's not). Firstly they would not orientate into neat parallel bands, assuming the lodestones are round, they would clump together radially. Secondly, the clumping would be twice as wide as the granules themselves. You wouldn't get several kilometers of uniform polarity, NNNNNNNNN, or SSSSSSSS, instead you'd get something like NSNSNSNS. Thirdly, you only get the striping or banding because of the cooling magma of seafloor spreading.

sea%20floor%20spreading2.gif



The iron particles can only orientate themselves when the rock is molten and the particles relatively free to move. Once the rock cools they can no longer move. Any sort of magnet or lodestone subject to this process would melt losing it's properties to attract and repel.
Somehow it seems like you are continuing to talk about the sea floor in general.

Sure, the sea floor and what was indigenous on the sea floor is where the event took place, but it has little to do with the explanation of the bands in question.

I keep talking about the bands in question. Why do you keep talking about the sea floor in general?
 

DavisBJ

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The poles they are closest to are the poles of the preceding band. The alternating strips are stronger than earth's magnetic field. They would by necessity line up in alternating strips because one strip will dictate the direction of the next, either north or south.

Yorzhik, I need some clarification. Assume there is a bar magnet, and next to it is a bar of molten magnetic material. Are you saying that when the molten material hardens, that it will have about the same strength and reversed polarity from the original magnet?
 

gcthomas

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Yorzhik, I need some clarification. Assume there is a bar magnet, and next to it is a bar of molten magnetic material. Are you saying that when the molten material hardens, that it will have about the same strength and reversed polarity from the original magnet?

He doesn't know, since he seems to think that a band of slightly magnetised minerals can affect the magnetisation of other minerals 100s of km away when the magnetic effect of the Earth's field is many orders of magnitude stronger. :dizzy:

But he plays a good distraction game, asking questions to spoil the line of attack. His responses are often no better than this guy.
 

Yorzhik

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Yorzhik, I need some clarification. Assume there is a bar magnet, and next to it is a bar of molten magnetic material. Are you saying that when the molten material hardens, that it will have about the same strength and reversed polarity from the original magnet?
Finally, a good question. That's what I'm saying.

Here's a little test. If chips are broken off a strong magnet, they don't stick back in place because they want to reverse. A lot of chips, if they are the right shape and confined to the right place, will line up and make a bar of reverse polarity stuck on the original bar. If they harden together in place making a new bar, the next new bar to be made may or may not line up reversed depending the on the strengths of the bars preceding them.

One more thing to note, the final strength of the bar after it has solidified is not entirely dependent on the bar proceeding it but of the materials it's made of and the time it takes to solidify.
 

Yorzhik

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He doesn't know, since he seems to think that a band of slightly magnetised minerals can affect the magnetisation of other minerals 100s of km away when the magnetic effect of the Earth's field is many orders of magnitude stronger. :dizzy:
How far away was the proceeding band?
 

gcthomas

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So when you said "100s of km away" you were either lying or stupid. Which were you doing? Lying or being stupid?

Oooh, let me think...:think:

I know! YOU are the idiot! Look here - how big do you think the bands are?

ridgeAnomalies-400.gif


Look at the scale, Yorz!

Some of the stripes are half a degree of longitude across.

OK. A simple question: how strong is the magnetic field around the magnetic mineral particles, and how far away do you have to get before the Earth's field is dominant?

(Cue another juvenile insult a 10-year-old would be embarrassed to utter in front of adults ...
Give up the ad homs, Yorz, even if that is all your argument consists of most of the time when you are out of your depth.)
 

Yorzhik

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Oooh, let me think...:think:

I know! YOU are the idiot!

(Cue another juvenile insult a 10-year-old would be embarrassed to utter in front of adults ...
Give up the ad homs, Yorz, even if that is all your argument consists of most of the time when you are out of your depth.)
M%20Morello%20RRC.jpg

You started it.
 

gcthomas

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You started it.

What a great response! :chuckle:

You must be proud of the quality of your retorts. ;)

It saves you actually dealing with the arguments, though, but your usual tactic is to respond to questions or challenges by asking questions you already know the answers to, so I suppose juvenility is a step up. :up:
 

Yorzhik

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It saves you actually dealing with the arguments
I've been dealing with the arguments steadily this whole thread. Your uncivil behavior has been simply responded to in kind. Don't worry, if you can stand to be civil we'll get to your dynamo theory and we'll see if you are as affable and forthcoming as I have been.

The question of the field strengths is currently where we are now in the discussion. That isn't something I've been able to come up with at my fingertips. However, would you agree that if the field strength of the band was relatively greater than the field strength of the earth at the wall of the band, then the following band would align based on the previous band?
 

gcthomas

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That isn't something I've been able to come up with at my fingertips. However, would you agree that if the field strength of the band was relatively greater than the field strength of the earth at the wall of the band, then the following band would align based on the previous band?

Are we talking about molten rock that erupting ang cooling episodically, or progressively centimetre by centimetre to allow progressive alignment, or solid rock?

How do you explain the pattern in magnetic anomaly stripes repeats around the world if it is a local effect?

z-download.cgi
 

DavisBJ

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Finally, a good question.
Good, I suspect both of us could benefit from a careful look at the issues, and that we can do it without some of the rancor that so often characterizes these threads.
Here's a little test. If chips are broken off a strong magnet, they don't stick back in place because they want to reverse. A lot of chips, if they are the right shape and confined to the right place, will line up and make a bar of reverse polarity stuck on the original bar. If they harden together in place making a new bar, the next new bar to be made may or may not line up reversed depending the on the strengths of the bars preceding them.
I agree with that, but I don’t see that as a close analogy to the sea-floor case. If the premise is correct that the seafloor is slowly spreading is correct, the new molten material is not initially magnetized fragments of the original magnetized band, but simply molten basalt that can be magnetized. Since a YEC view would not allow the millions of years mainstream science claims for the seafloor spreading, I would need to know what the YEC explanation is that would yield such a pattern.
One more thing to note, the final strength of the bar after it has solidified is not entirely dependent on the bar proceeding it but of the materials it's made of and the time it takes to solidify.
Good points. In mainstream science’s old-earth case, I am not aware that variations in the chemical composition of the basaltic magma is credited with playing a big role in the magnetic stripes on the seafloor. That would be something that would be easy to check, and I suspect it has been looked at, long since.

I suspect the cooling rate is, by geological standards, relatively fast (a few centuries?), since this is the upper part of the lithosphere that we are discussing (with relatively cool ocean water just above it.) The temperature of the water coming out of the “black smokers” (highly mineralized hot water vents seen in conjunction with seafloor spreading) can be as hot as 400 centigrade. Magnetization is sometimes destroyed by elevated temperatures, but hot magnetizable materials can also be magnetized more readily. It is a question of whether a magnetic field is impressed on the material as it cools down to the temperatures below which the magnetism is pretty well locked into the material.
 
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Yorzhik

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Are we talking about molten rock that erupting ang cooling episodically, or progressively centimetre by centimetre to allow progressive alignment, or solid rock?

How do you explain the pattern in magnetic anomaly stripes repeats around the world if it is a local effect?

z-download.cgi
It wasn't a local effect. It was a worldwide effect based on the magnetic field of the earth's core on the first band.
 
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