Real Science Radio: Earth & Mercury's Decaying Magnetic Fields

DavisBJ

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Enyart was responding to Stripe who commented on another post about how the term was used. Enyart did not introduce the issue in post 32. You really do hate reading like Stripe says. Your response is nonsense in regards to that topic in this thread. Seriously, read.
Guy, I don’t try to derail threads, and I know that often peripheral ideas get injected into threads. That happened on the use of the word “evolution” in this thread. Enyart replied to my post, and demands on my time have prevented me from composing a meaningful answer to him.

One thing I do not intend to do is to engage you or anyone else in a long debate over who is reading the threads or staying on subject. That kind of exchange is infantile, and I have much better things to do with my time.

If you want dissect each post maybe you can show that Stripe said something that led Enyart to reply, and then my attention was caught by Enyart’s post. So what? Are you so starved for meaningful material that you have to resort to that? Leave me out of the squabbles you all are having in your crib.
 

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If the evolutionists were interested in science, they would ask why the magnetic field is diminishing as per the observations.

Here's a question for you: Why is it that the geomagnetic field's rate of decrease and the current strength are within the normal range of variation as shown by the record of past magnetic fields recorded in rocks?
 

Stripe

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Here's a question for you: Why is it that the geomagnetic field's rate of decrease and the current strength are within the normal range of variation as shown by the record of past magnetic fields recorded in rocks?

How are past magnetic strengths determined?
 

Daedalean's_Sun

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Since the post is gone, I guess I'll repeat. Since you ignored what I said, "tersely refuted" is, I guess, apt in your own mind.

What you said wasn't ignored.


Yorzhik: The bands in question, on the sea floor, have magnetic particles.

DS: The seafloor does contain magnetic particles, we call it iron.

no response...




Yorzhik: Every magnet has a pole.

Jukia: Every magnet has 2 poles.

again, no response...



The only thing being ignored were the glaring holes in your rationalization.
 

Yorzhik

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What you said wasn't ignored.


Yorzhik: The bands in question, on the sea floor, have magnetic particles.



DS: The seafloor does contain magnetic particles, we call it iron.

no response...
You don't follow from what I said. I'm talking about the bands in question and you seem to be talking about the sea floor in general. If you are talking about sea floor in general, please be clear.


Yorzhik: Every magnet has a pole.



Jukia: Every magnet has 2 poles.

again, no response...

The only thing being ignored were the glaring holes in your rationalization.
You implied that the magnets in question did not have poles. They do have a pole, in fact they have 2.
 

Lighthouse

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OK, If you prefer cutesy faces in place of an answer to an honest question, I understand. I was mistaken in thinking you really had something to say.
I used that particular emoticon because your response had zilch to do with the issue I called disingenuous. Stripe was right, you don't like to read what's actually going on in the discussion.
 

Daedalean's_Sun

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You don't follow from what I said. I'm talking about the bands in question and you seem to be talking about the sea floor in general. If you are talking about sea floor in general, please be clear.

The bands are the seafloor.


You implied that the magnets in question did not have poles. They do have a pole, in fact they have 2.

Um...no. I never said this. I said that the bands are not magnets. Either you have a curious case of selective listening, or you are misrepresenting my statements intentionally.
 

DavisBJ

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I used that particular emoticon because your response had zilch to do with the issue I called disingenuous. Stripe was right, you don't like to read what's actually going on in the discussion.
I understand. Sometimes you (and Stripe) enjoy mocking more than meaningful dialogue. I will keep that in mind when I see you respond to a post.
 

Yorzhik

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I'm currently gathering more information on exactly what we measure at the bands, how it's measured, and maybe some maps.
 

DavisBJ

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… the sea floor would more similar to the rock found in continental crust.
My understanding is that the sea floor is almost uniformly basaltic rock, whereas continental crust is a distinctly different type of rock. It is the density difference between the two types of crust (continental and oceanic) that leads to oceanic crust always subducting under continental when they converge. The explanation for many mountain ranges is that two plates of continental crust converged, and for either one of them to subduct under the other would require “low density” continental crust to go deep into higher density rock in the mantle. Instead, the two converging continental plates slowly ram into each other and cause folding and upthrusting of the continental rocks, forming mountains. The Himalayas are one of the more recent mountain ranges so formed, by India pushing into the southern side of Asia.

But you bring to mind a question I have not entertained, and would be interested in seeing if anyone has an answer for. All of the oceanic crust under the Atlantic is dated at 200 million years or so or less. And I presume, at some time much father back, the seafloor of the Pacific was similarly formed by seafloor spreading. Then wouldn’t essentially each segment of the Pacific Ocean floor also show magnetic polarization for the same reason the Atlantic does?
 

Daedalean's_Sun

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In the context of this discussion, the bands are igneous rock formed from the lava under the crust, while the sea floor would more similar to the rock found in continental crust.

Are you saying there are sections of the seafloor, that don't exhibit paleomagnetic banding? As far as I am aware, this magnetic banding is a consistent character of the seafloor as a whole.


TLEGHS2.png
 

Yorzhik

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My understanding is that the sea floor is almost uniformly basaltic rock, whereas continental crust is a distinctly different type of rock.
Yep, I was reading about the difference in the rock from the sea floor away from the Mid Atlantic ridge relative to the rock at the Mid Atlantic ridge, and the differences are so small that one can call me wrong for saying they are different.

It's looking like the theory of alternating bands based on the previous band is busted unless I can come up with data consistent with the idea

It is the density difference between the two types of crust (continental and oceanic) that leads to oceanic crust always subducting under continental when they converge. The explanation for many mountain ranges is that two plates of continental crust converged, and for either one of them to subduct under the other would require “low density” continental crust to go deep into higher density rock in the mantle. Instead, the two converging continental plates slowly ram into each other and cause folding and upthrusting of the continental rocks, forming mountains. The Himalayas are one of the more recent mountain ranges so formed, by India pushing into the southern side of Asia.
This is the reason for looking for a different explanation. The energy required to push the oceanic crust under continental crust (to say nothing of continental crust under continental crust) is just too great for the mechanism of plate tectonics to do it. The only real way to get what we see today is for the crust to get up some momentum.

And there's more. The sea floor away from the bands doesn't follow a particular magnetic direction as it should. And even more damning, the direction of the field inside the bands themselves, deeper down, should be relatively even, but it's not.

Does that prove the hydroplate theory? No, but we have to find something that can actually account for the facts we see today. Plate tectonics isn't it.

But you bring to mind a question I have not entertained, and would be interested in seeing if anyone has an answer for. All of the oceanic crust under the Atlantic is dated at 200 million years or so or less. And I presume, at some time much father back, the seafloor of the Pacific was similarly formed by seafloor spreading. Then wouldn’t essentially each segment of the Pacific Ocean floor also show magnetic polarization for the same reason the Atlantic does?
That's just one of the many anomalies that shows plate tectonics is wrong. Something else happened.

And further, the more I look into the idea that magnetic field of one band drives the magnetic field of the next is looking less and less likely as DS has poked some holes in the theory that I can't answer so far.

Problem is, the facts simply don't support a reversing dipole. We have one fact, the bands in the Atlantic, that is supposed to support a reversing field, but there is something else that has to be going on. It wasn't reversals.
 

Yorzhik

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The bands are the seafloor.
You are correct. I'm wrong. The differences I was imagining are small enough not to count.

Um...no. I never said this. I said that the bands are not magnets. Either you have a curious case of selective listening, or you are misrepresenting my statements intentionally.
The bands are magnets, which is how we detect their magnetic field.

However, you are correct that the field does not seem strong enough to affect the band next to it.
 

Yorzhik

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Are you saying there are sections of the seafloor, that don't exhibit paleomagnetic banding? As far as I am aware, this magnetic banding is a consistent character of the seafloor as a whole.


TLEGHS2.png
It does have that characteristic, but there are so many spots that don't follow the direction as it should (some even go in the wrong direction) that reversals are normally not followed far from the Mid Atlantic ridge.
 
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