Real Science Friday: Best Cell Biology DVD Ever Made!

[Stripe]

RSF: Best Cell Biology DVD Ever Made!

This is the show from Friday, April 27th 2012.

SUMMARY:



* Don Johnson on Real Science Friday: RSF co-host Bob Enyart interviews Dr. Don Johnson who earned Ph.D.s in both Computer & Information Sciences from the University of Minnesota and in Chemistry from Michigan State University and has been a senior scientist in industry and taught at universities in the U.S. and Europe. Dr. Johnson has produced simply the greatest cell biology DVD ever made: Programming of Life!

* How Many Proteins Does It Take To Screw In a Light Bulb? No joke. Actually, the scientific question is: How many proteins does it take to make a protein? The answer: 150. Hopefully that realization will help light a bulb for an evolutionist. For apart from the Creator God, the claim of the materialistic origin of life is hopelessly circular and makes no sense.

For this show, RSF recommends Dr. Don Johnson's Programming of Life DVD!

* Analyzing the Great Works of Literature -- Via Spelling: Debating RSF, atheist AronRa claimed that the study of evolution (to Darwinists, this means, the study of all life) is primarily an investigating into changing frequencies of alleles (which are differing versions of genes). This is as insufficient an approach as it would be to study the great works of literature by focusing on spelling an syntax.

* One Dead Protein: Bob Enyart points out that even if a trillion universes all pulled together to overcome the odds of a protein forming and folding by chance, and natural processes produced the first protein... so what? All you'd have is a single, dead protein.



* Don Explains Where Miller and Urey Went Wrong: To summarize, here's a quote from Bob Enyart's letter to the Colo. Springs Gazette: "One misleading Denver Museum of Natural History exhibit headline, referring to the 1952 Miller/Urey synthesis of amino acids, reads: Replicating Life in the Lab? It’s been sixty years! Don’t they know if they made life yet or not? Their question mark is insufficient to counterbalance this false report, since amino acids are essential to biological life, but they are not life, they are acids."

* NEW: RSF's Dinosaur Soft Tissue Page! By popular demand, Real Science Friday now presents all of our evidence for the existence of dinosaur soft tissue on a since web page titled:

Dinosaur Soft Tissue is Original Biological Material

Today’s Resource: Get the greatest cell biology video ever made! Getting this on DVD:
- helps you to share it with others
- helps keep Real Science Friday on the air, and
- gets you Dr. Don Johnson's book as a bonus!
Information is encoded in every cell in our DNA and in all living things. Learn how the common world view of life's origin, chemical evolution, conflicts with our knowledge of Information Science. Finally, information Science is changing the way millions of people think about all living systems!

Also, have you browsed through our Science Department in the KGOV Store? You just might LOVE IT!!

 

[Frayed Knot]

Oh look, another episode of "Golly Gee Whiz, It Sure Is Complicated, Ergo God."

The funny thing is, actual biologists expect complexity as the result of billions of years of evolution. Life has been going on Earth for about 3.5 billion years at least, and 2.5 to 3 billion of that was just single-celled organisms, or groups of single-celled organisms, quickly reproducing and even sharing genetic material across species. After billions of years getting the cells optimized, the past few hundred million years we've seen building up cells into larger animals, but that has actually been the relatively recent part of evolution.

So yes, we'd expect cells to be complex.

 

[Stripe]

Oh look, another episode of "Golly Gee Whiz, It Sure Is Complicated, Ergo God."

:chuckle:

Lookie! Another atheist ignoring the discussion in favour of a caricature to mock.

The funny thing is, actual biologists expect complexity as the result of billions of years of evolution.

Yeah, I guess they'd have to. :chuckle:

Life has been going on Earth for about 3.5 billion years at least, and 2.5 to 3 billion of that was just single-celled organisms, or groups of single-celled organisms, quickly reproducing and even sharing genetic material across species.

Um, yeah. That's the challenge. How do single cell organisms arise from rocks and water?

 

[Frayed Knot]

That's the challenge. How do single cell organisms arise from rocks and water?

OK, but first, you're saying that the natural evolution from single-celled organisms to the variety of life we see today is not "the challenge"? You accept that much?

 

[Stripe]

OK, but first, you're saying that the natural evolution from single-celled organisms to the variety of life we see today is not "the challenge"? You accept that much?

:idunno:

You listened to the show, right?

 

[GuySmiley]

After billions of years getting the cells optimized, the past few hundred million years we've seen building up cells into larger animals, but that has actually been the relatively recent part of evolution.

That would be neat. I only thought we inferred, concluded, or assumed that cells built up into larger animals. Is it on youtube?

 

[Stripe]

That would be neat. I only thought we inferred, concluded, or assumed that cells built up into larger animals. Is it on youtube?

You forget, Guy. The atheist has but his explanations to offer as evidence.

 

[Frayed Knot]

:idunno:

You listened to the show, right?

Only half of it so far.

But I was asking about what you accept, not Don Johnson.

 

[Stripe]

But I was asking about what you accept, not Don Johnson.

The main challenge in the show was for atheists to show how a cell could build itself from rocks and water. Maybe some lightning.

Have you seen 'Short Circuit'? :chuckle:

Of course this does not mean I accept that fish turned into people.

 

[Frayed Knot]

The main challenge in the show was for atheists to show how a cell could build itself from rocks and water. Maybe some lightning.

I think you're saying that the subject of this episode was primarily about the challenge of abiogenesis, how life came about from non-living precursors. I misunderstood your earlier "challenge" statement to be about your own view of evolution and your challenge to it.

Anyway, more of the same... complexity, complexity, complexity, therefore God. Ho-hum.

There was a dishonest point near the end, when Don Johnson quote-mined an article in the journal Science. In it they said "More effectively integrating evolution into the education of preservice biology teachers may also have the indirect effect of encouraging students who cannot accept evolution as a matter of faith to pursue other careers."

Johnson misleadingly interprets this as their saying that evolution is what's a matter of faith, when any rational person can see that they were talking about people who, because of their religious faith, cannot accept evolution, that they should pursue other careers. Of course, this is true. I hear someone being blatantly dishonest like Johnson was doing here, and it makes me wonder whether he really believes his material or he's just making a buck off the yokels.

 

[Stripe]

I think you're saying that the subject of this episode was primarily about the challenge of abiogenesis, how life came about from non-living precursors. I misunderstood your earlier "challenge" statement to be about your own view of evolution and your challenge to it.Anyway, more of the same... complexity, complexity, complexity, therefore God. Ho-hum.There was a dishonest point near the end, when Don Johnson quote-mined an article in the journal Science. In it they said "More effectively integrating evolution into the education of preservice biology teachers may also have the indirect effect of encouraging students who cannot accept evolution as a matter of faith to pursue other careers."Johnson misleadingly interprets this as their saying that evolution is what's a matter of faith, when any rational person can see that they were talking about people who, because of their religious faith, cannot accept evolution, that they should pursue other careers. Of course, this is true. I hear someone being blatantly dishonest like Johnson was doing here, and it makes me wonder whether he really believes his material or he's just making a buck off the yokels.

So - you've nothing of substance to offer then.

Thought not. :wave:

 

[chatmaggot]

I think you're saying that the subject of this episode was primarily about the challenge of abiogenesis, how life came about from non-living precursors. I misunderstood your earlier "challenge" statement to be about your own view of evolution and your challenge to it....

Are you saying that evolution and abiogenesis are not connected in any way? If so, then read here.

Here is a summary:

...Pure and simple, if you take on the question of where did life on earth come from without any answer preloaded, the most logical answer is evolution...

Finally! An honest evolutionist. When Creationist equate the origin of life with evolution...evolutionist state that evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life but rather acts upon life.

Thank you for finally admitting that evolution does deal with the origin of life. Now could you direct me to a resource that explains how evolution created life?

It may not technically be part of the theory of evolution by Darwin, but it is part of the science of evolution. ...

 

[The Barbarian]

How many proteins does it take to make a protein?

None at all. But it does take a number of amino acids. A little phosphoric acid doesn't hurt, either.

The inorganic polymerization of amino acids into proteins through the formation of peptide bonds was thought to occur only at temperatures over 140°C. However, the biochemist Sidney Walter Fox and his co-workers discovered that phosphoric acid acted as a catalyst for this reaction. They were able to form protein-like chains from a mixture of 18 common amino acids at only 70°C in the presence of phosphoric acid, and dubbed these protein-like chains proteinoids. Fox later found proteinoids similar to those he had created in his laboratory in lava and cinders from Hawaiian volcanic vents and determined that the amino acids present polymerized due to the heat of escaping gases and lava. Other catalysts have since been found; one of them, amidinium carbodiimide, is formed in primitive Earth experiments and is effective in dilute aqueous solutions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proteinoid

 

[The Barbarian]

Are you saying that evolution and abiogenesis are not connected in any way?

One doesn't depend on the other. For example, if God just poofed the first living things into existence (as Darwin suggested) it would be all the same to evolutionary theory.

Evolutionary theory doesn't say how life began. It assumes living things and describes how they change.

 

[The Barbarian]

Um, yeah. That's the challenge. How do single cell organisms arise from rocks and water?

That's the key thing. The simplest cell structure is the one that would have had to appear first. The cell membrane is a simple phospholipid bilayer, which spontaneously forms enclosed vesicles.

It's one of the most persuasive arguments for abiogenesis.

 

[Stripe]

None at all. But it does take a number of amino acids. A little phosphoric acid doesn't hurt, either.

The inorganic polymerization of amino acids into proteins through the formation of peptide bonds was thought to occur only at temperatures over 140°C. However, the biochemist Sidney Walter Fox and his co-workers discovered that phosphoric acid acted as a catalyst for this reaction. They were able to form protein-like chains from a mixture of 18 common amino acids at only 70°C in the presence of phosphoric acid, and dubbed these protein-like chains proteinoids. Fox later found proteinoids similar to those he had created in his laboratory in lava and cinders from Hawaiian volcanic vents and determined that the amino acids present polymerized due to the heat of escaping gases and lava. Other catalysts have since been found; one of them, amidinium carbodiimide, is formed in primitive Earth experiments and is effective in dilute aqueous solutions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proteinoid

So you think life was first produced in a laboratory. :AMR:

That's the key thing.

What? What's the "key thing". Your post had nothing to do with what I said.

The simplest cell structure is the one that would have had to appear first. The cell membrane is a simple phospholipid bilayer, which spontaneously forms enclosed vesicles.

In a lab, right?

It's one of the most persuasive arguments for abiogenesis.

:rotfl:

:mock: Abiogenesis.

 

[Flipper]

I'm thinking that Bob and Don Johnson are overstating the case somewhat by insisting that DNA is a digital language/computer program.

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
How many proteins does it take to make a protein?

None at all. But it does take a number of amino acids. A little phosphoric acid doesn't hurt, either.

The inorganic polymerization of amino acids into proteins through the formation of peptide bonds was thought to occur only at temperatures over 140°C. However, the biochemist Sidney Walter Fox and his co-workers discovered that phosphoric acid acted as a catalyst for this reaction. They were able to form protein-like chains from a mixture of 18 common amino acids at only 70°C in the presence of phosphoric acid, and dubbed these protein-like chains proteinoids. Fox later found proteinoids similar to those he had created in his laboratory in lava and cinders from Hawaiian volcanic vents and determined that the amino acids present polymerized due to the heat of escaping gases and lava. Other catalysts have since been found; one of them, amidinium carbodiimide, is formed in primitive Earth experiments and is effective in dilute aqueous solutions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proteinoid

So you think life was first produced in a laboratory.

Read the cite. Turns out small proteins occur naturally, on volcanic rocks. Some were found in the Murchison meteorite, including amino acids not found on Earth, so we know they aren't contaminants.

Barbarian observes:
That's the key thing. The simplest cell structure is the one that would have had to appear first. The cell membrane is a simple phospholipid bilayer, which spontaneously forms enclosed vesicles. It's one of the most persuasive arguments for abiogenesis.

What? What's the "key thing".

I restored the part you cut out. Better now?

Your post had nothing to do with what I said.

You asked how the first cell originated. I pointed out that the simplest organelle in the cell is the one that would have to be the first. That's a pretty good bit of evidence.

In a lab, right?

Nothing magic in a lab. And phospholipids can form and persist in nature, so long as no bacteria gobble them up. So they would accumulate before living things formed.

 

[Stripe]

I'm thinking that Bob and Don Johnson are overstating the case somewhat by insisting that DNA is a digital language/computer program.

I think you ran out of intelligent things to contribute about 4 years ago...

Barbarian observes: How many proteins does it take to make a protein? None at all. But it does take a number of amino acids. A little phosphoric acid doesn't hurt, either. B]The inorganic polymerization of amino acids into proteins through the formation of peptide bonds was thought to occur only at temperatures over 140°C. However, the biochemist Sidney Walter Fox and his co-workers discovered that phosphoric acid acted as a catalyst for this reaction. They were able to form protein-like chains from a mixture of 18 common amino acids at only 70°C in the presence of phosphoric acid, and dubbed these protein-like chains proteinoids. Fox later found proteinoids similar to those he had created in his laboratory in lava and cinders from Hawaiian volcanic vents and determined that the amino acids present polymerized due to the heat of escaping gases and lava. Other catalysts have since been found; one of them, amidinium carbodiimide, is formed in primitive Earth experiments and is effective in dilute aqueous solutions.url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proteinoid[/url][/B]

Dementia kicking in? You already said all this. :kook:

Read the cite. Turns out small proteins occur naturally, on volcanic rocks. Some were found in the Murchison meteorite, including amino acids not found on Earth, so we know they aren't contaminants.

Turns out those aren't proteins. :dizzy:

Barbarian observes:That's the key thing. The simplest cell structure is the one that would have had to appear first. The cell membrane is a simple phospholipid bilayer, which spontaneously forms enclosed vesicles. It's one of the most persuasive arguments for abiogenesis.

:kook:

I restored the part you cut out. Better now?

No. Try something that isn't a non-sequitur.

You asked how the first cell originated. I pointed out that the simplest organelle in the cell is the one that would have to be the first. That's a pretty good bit of evidence.

That's a nice story. Stories aren't evidence if you want to be rational and scientific.

Nothing magic in a lab.

Who said there was? :AMR:

And phospholipids can form and persist in nature

From what? Proteins, right?

 

[The Barbarian]

(Barbarian reminds Stipe of the evidence)

Dementia kicking in? You already said all this. :kook:

No, I don't think it's dementia. You just tend to forget things you don't want to be true.

Turns out those aren't proteins. :dizzy

That's what they are proteinoids or peptides are just short proteins. And the line between them is fuzzy. A number of biological proteins are technically peptides.

(Barbarian notes that the precursors of cell membranes are produced abiotically)

Who said there was? :AMR:From what? Proteins, right?

Nope. Proteins don't produce phospholipids. Want to learn about it?