Re: Open View/Closed Future

Scholastic

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godrulz said:
No, but God did change moment by moment in His thoughts, experiences, feelings within the fellowship of the triune Godhead. The Father could communicate with the Son sequentially before the physical universe was created just as much as after or while Christ prayed to the Father on earth. They still fellowship sequentially after the resurrection, do they not? Creation is irrelevant to their ongoing internal relations. Creation adds new contingencies and other free moral agents, so God's experience and knowledge is now different than it was before Genesis 1:1.

That statement is ridiculous Communicate with the son sequentially? Thoughts, experiences, feelings changing? Not in eternity! If anything, because the Son was the Word (aka the will) of God, then it can be said that any and all "communication" was already preordained before the conception.
 

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godrulz said:
Your refutation is out there. Why would I concede because I do not have the time, energy, interest, or expertise to take you and Aquinas on at the moment?

And quite frankly, the fallacy of any refutation remains clear. If god can change, then that means that God would have had to have been created, because he has potential. Anything with potential is created. However, because is entirely in act, then he must be STATIC.
 

godrulz

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Scholastic said:
That statement is ridiculous Communicate with the son sequentially? Thoughts, experiences, feelings changing? Not in eternity! If anything, because the Son was the Word (aka the will) of God, then it can be said that any and all "communication" was already preordained before the conception.


Your misconceptions/preconceptions of eternity lead to incoherence. Find someone else to help you :singer:
 

godrulz

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Scholastic said:
And quite frankly, the fallacy of any refutation remains clear. If god can change, then that means that God would have had to have been created, because he has potential. Anything with potential is created. However, because is entirely in act, then he must be STATIC.


Do you smoke pot? :sigh:
 

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I despise Protestants - -;. 2000 years of philosophers, church fathers, clergy, popes, etc who came to certain conclusions via logic, and they think that they can try to refute the GREATEST MINDS THAT EVER EXISTED.
 

justchristian

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Cool. I thought you were going to say something stupid like Jesus. No offense I don't really know you but there are some wonderbreads on this forum. I love great theology works - anything from these greatest minds you could suggest?
 

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justchristian said:
Cool. I thought you were going to say something stupid like Jesus. No offense I don't really know you but there are some wonderbreads on this forum. I love great theology works - anything from these greatest minds you could suggest?

Sure.
1) God is eternal
2) God is immutable
3) God is one

Those are the big points.
 

eccl3_6

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Scholastic said:
And that is the awesome thing about Christ being the God man. It really doesn't matter when Christ came into play during time, because Christ is co eternal.

I'm actually playing devils advocate with you on this one because if you check out some of the other threads Ive been posting on I agree with you on your concepts of time if you believe in physical and metaphysical time concurrently which I think you do
i.e. 'co-eternal'. What this does do is shoot down an argument of sequential events existing metaphysically in a physical time reference but from a different angle. Not only do they not compute with one another....this suggests that metaphysics has no need to. Can I just say though for anyone else that might be reading.....



Physical time is still quantifiable through relativity and is not just an idea and has been proved several times over.



Sorry about that but every where I go people keep telling me that time is just a concept and its driving me barmy. There's not a professional physicist on the planet that disagrees.

I just needed to get it of my chest.


:madmad:
 

godrulz

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Scholastic said:
WHAT SORT OF A QUESTION IS THAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

It is a stupid joke. I know you do not, but your ideas seem esoteric and indefensible at times (except to you and others who share your view).
 

godrulz

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Scholastic said:
Sure.
1) God is eternal
2) God is immutable
3) God is one

Those are the big points.


I affirm these points, but there is more than one way to understand what is meant by them (only one view is correct, though).

The Bible explicitly says God is love, light, and spirit. God is truth. God is holy. IT does not say He is sovereign, but the concept is certainly there. It does not say He is 'immutable', but the concept is there, properly understood.
 

Scholastic

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indefensible at times (except to you and others who share your view).

Indefensible? WtF? You have yet to provide anything against it. all you've said is "no, that's wrong, because i say so"
 

godrulz

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eccl3_6 said:
I'm actually playing devils advocate with you on this one because if you check out some of the other threads Ive been posting on I agree with you on your concepts of time if you believe in physical and metaphysical time concurrently which I think you do
i.e. 'co-eternal'. What this does do is shoot down an argument of sequential events existing metaphysically in a physical time reference but from a different angle. Not only do they not compute with one another....this suggests that metaphysics has no need to. Can I just say though for anyone else that might be reading.....



Physical time is still quantifiable through relativity and is not just an idea and has been proved several times over.



Sorry about that but every where I go people keep telling me that time is just a concept and its driving me barmy. There's not a professional physicist on the planet that disagrees.

I just needed to get it of my chest.


:madmad:

There are many creation scientists that correctly reject macroevolution. Theoretical physics is speculative. Even Steven Hawkings recently recanted a long standing view on worm or black holes (?) in the face of evidence and further thought.
 

godrulz

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Scholastic said:
Indefensible? WtF? You have yet to provide anything against it. all you've said is "no, that's wrong, because i say so"

I hope WTF is not what I think it is. You could get banned. :wave:

I have shared thoughts, but do not have the time for a doctrinal treatise for closed-minded people. Perhaps we should debate Protestant vs Catholic Christianity :rolleyes:
 

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godrulz said:
I hope WTF is not what I think it is. You could get banned. :wave:

Banned for using initials? i've never heard of that.



have shared thoughts, but do not have the time for a doctrinal treatise for closed-minded people.

Thus another way of saying "I can't argue against it, therefore you win.

Perhaps we should debate Protestant vs Catholic Christianity :rolleyes:

www.freewebs.com/philosophical_Thought/

go to thesis on God and religion. I already wrote a thesis on that. However, for your sake, i'll copy/paste the needed part:

Thus far, it can be deduced that Christianity is the most valid religion. However, there are two main branches of Christianity: Catholicism and the heretical sects (Protestantism, Gnosticism, Mormonism, etc.), all of which disagree with each other. Therefore, because all oppose each other, only one can be most valid. To find the most valid, one must again search the scriptures: "And so I name you Peter, and upon this Rock I shall build my church, and the jaws of Hell shall not prevail against it. I entrust to you the two keys to the kingdom of Heaven. Whatsoever you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in Heaven." (Matthew 16:18) "Let us rejoice and be glad, and give honor to him, for the marriages of the lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready." (Revelations 19:7) From these scriptures, the following can be deduced: Salvation is found especially in this church, Christ commissioned this Church, this Church is one, denial of this church results in damnation, and Christ has bound, even married, Himself to this Church, and only this Church. St. Peter was the first Catholic Pope; his church is the church commissioned by Christ, the Catholic Church. Salvation is found in this church. The current Popes are successors of Peter. Denial of the Church is a denial of the Pope; a denial of the Pope is a denial of Peter; a denial of Peter is a denial of Christ (Christ used the word "Petros" meaning "little rock." Christ is the big rock. In this verse, Christ took Peter and His church into himself); a rejection of Christ is a rejection of God, and therefore a damnable blasphemy.
 
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