Proof that Paul didn't preach a different gospel than Peter

Shasta

Well-known member
You made that up, re. "When I made the same argument against YOUR view suddenly it was 'it doesn't matter because truth is truth.' That is circular reasoning since whether your view is truth or not is what you are trying to prove"- I never argued "it doesn't matter............," so knock it off.



How long did it take for you to MSN/Google/Bing that cliché/filler, that says nothing?

Would you prefer an "impersonal" attack?



You are on record-the earth is flat.


Sit, Boo Boo.

The idea that the earth is flat came out of your mind, not mine and you know it. Don't misrepresent what I say.

My original point was that your view is missing from historical record prior to the 1800s. YOUR "earth is flat" remark was a pathetic attempt to say that because something is older does not make it any more true. I replied that this might be true of an evolving body of knowledge like science but it would certainly not be true of a revelation given by God once for all in time and space. That kind of truth does not evolve.

If by "impersonal attacks" you mean one that is focused on the point rather than childish insults then sure I prefer it because you can learn more that way.
 

Danoh

New member
Danoh, the Great, shot down again by another dazzling GT stumper!

Lol, the poor darling, I was giving her credit where credit was due.

What does she do with it?

Back to viewing things from the Stopped Clock Principle she returned.

Off-base as to my intent.

Proving my point while oblivious to it.

GT, you need to put aside your sense that you are being attacked - at least by me.

That you instead at least look into what I am talking about.

My apology for the offence you have concluded I'd meant. I only care for your soul.
 

God's Truth

New member
Lol, the poor darling, I was giving her credit where credit was due.

What does she do with it?

Back to viewing things from the Stopped Clock Principle she returned.

Off-base as to my intent.

Proving my point while oblivious to it.

GT, you need to put aside your sense that you are being attacked - at least by me.

That you instead at least look into what I am talking about.

My apology for the offence you have concluded I'd meant. I only care for your soul.

...not one scripture spoken of, again.
 

Shasta

Well-known member
Boy when I take Paul seriously I see a lot of struggle and heartache in his letters to the churches he knew. The guy was putting out fires and trying to deal with "other gospels" and folks he decided were not on the right track.

I am comfortable with my opinion because it has been backed by many historians who have studied Paul's (authentic) letters in the original language and know pretty well what the context of history was at the time that Paul and the early Christians made their lives in.

Learning the textual clues have shown me how forceful Paul's message was and how it was meant to directly challenge the Roman Empire. This was when the little band of Jesus' faithful were living in a time of state-sponsored violence and hardly any regard for the lives of "those other" Christians who lived within the Empire.

That new information has helped me understand Paul a little better and situate him in his authentic historical context.

Christianity is a historical faith and certain things actually happened to it along the journey of its beginning and its development. History, I have discovered, is the bedrock of faith and theology.



But I guess it's all how you read it. It seems if we are to take the New Testament as "alive" and that those who wrote the gospels and the letters were real human beings who experienced the fact of Jesus in their own way and their own theology. I think at least I owe them that simple respect.

Which of Paul's letters have you decided are not "authentic" and on what basis was such a decision made?
 

Nanja

Well-known member
We stand by faith.

Romans 11:20
Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble.



Doesn't say anything about standing by a special election for no reason of God's.

It says we stand by faith and that should make you tremble.

What are you trembling for if you do not stand by your faith?



2 Corinthians 1:24 Not that we lord it over your faith, but we work with you for your joy, because it is by faith you stand firm.


Where does it say what you say? Where does it say we stand by predestination and a special no reason election by God?

It doesn't say what you say; it says we stand by faith.



No one can stand by Faith by his own ability!

Faith springs from Grace which is a Gift of God.

That's why there's no reason to boast or be arrogant.


Gal. 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


Faith is a fruit and gift of the Spirit given in the New Birth to all of the Election of Grace.
So each one of them must become Born Again / Born from Above John 3:7, because they were chosen to be holy
and without blame before Him in Love Eph. 1:4, predestinated unto the Adoption of Children by Jesus Christ to Himself!


These scriptures on God's Election of Grace Eph. 1:4-11 are important because they inform us of who they are
that make up the World for whom the Blood of Christ was shed Eph. 1:7; the World that has Redemption
through the Blood of Christ and forgiveness of sins, and thus are predestined to an Eternal Inheritance Eph. 1:11!


2 Tim. 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works,
but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began


Because the natural man is carnal, of the flesh, his own faith or believing
is as filthy rags Is. 64:6, and has no ability whatsoever to please God!

Rom. 8:7-8 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God,
neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


So, only once one is Born of the Spirit in the New Birth is he able to please God.
Then he is no longer carnal, because the The Spirit of God dwells in him:

Rom. 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

~~~~~
 

Danoh

New member
No one can stand by Faith by his own ability!

Faith springs from Grace which is a Gift of God.

That's why there's no reason to boast or be arrogant.


Gal. 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


Faith is a fruit and gift of the Spirit given in the New Birth to all of the Election of Grace.
So each one of them must become Born Again / Born from Above John 3:7, because they were chosen to be holy
and without blame before Him in Love Eph. 1:4, predestinated unto the Adoption of Children by Jesus Christ to Himself!


These scriptures on God's Election of Grace Eph. 1:4-11 are important because they inform us of who they are
that make up the World for whom the Blood of Christ was shed Eph. 1:7; the World that has Redemption
through the Blood of Christ and forgiveness of sins, and thus are predestined to an Eternal Inheritance Eph. 1:11!


2 Tim. 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works,
but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began


Because the natural man is carnal, of the flesh, his own faith or believing
is as filthy rags Is. 64:6, and has no ability whatsoever to please God!

Rom. 8:7-8 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God,
neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


So, only once one is Born of the Spirit in the New Birth is he able to please God.
Then he is no longer carnal, because the The Spirit of God dwells in him:

Rom. 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

~~~~~

Man, and I thought GT could distort a verse - the fruit of the Spirit is a reference to walking in the truth of the Gospel.

The Galatians were not walking in the truth of the Gospel. - of who God had made them by the Spirit in His Son - a new creature.

As a result, they were biting and devouring one another.

What Paul was saying was that, if they were actually walking in the truth of the Gospel they would walk in love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, and goodness, toward one another.

He develops this understanding throughout Romans thru Philemon. One example of many - Galatians 6:

10. As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

15. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Ephesians 1:

4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

This is talking about what God had purposed as to those who, upon their trusting His Son - who Love God by trusting His Son - He baptizes by One Spirit into His Son, and then chooses them unto that service He has purposed in His Son - note - "that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"

Notice that volition - a matter of one's will - continues - Romans 12:

1. I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Every imaginable passage you might throw up on this issue is the same - the issue of being chosen unto service after loving God by trusting His Son.

You need to burn Romans 5 into the mentality of your soul - the gift is the Cross, and our righteousness in the Cross.
 

Nanja

Well-known member
Man, and I thought GT could distort a verse - the fruit of the Spirit is a reference to walking in the truth of the Gospel.

The Galatians were not walking in the truth of the Gospel. - of who God had made them by the Spirit in His Son - a new creature.

As a result, they were biting and devouring one another.

What Paul was saying was that, if they were actually walking in the truth of the Gospel they would walk in love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, and goodness, toward one another.

He develops this understanding throughout Romans thru Philemon. One example of many - Galatians 6:

10. As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

15. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Ephesians 1:

4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

This is talking about what God had purposed as to those who, upon their trusting His Son - who Love God by trusting His Son - He baptizes by One Spirit into His Son, and then chooses them unto that service He has purposed in His Son - note - "that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"

Notice that volition - a matter of one's will - continues - Romans 12:

1. I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Every imaginable passage you might throw up on this issue is the same - the issue of being chosen unto service after loving God by trusting His Son.

You need to burn Romans 5 into the mentality of your soul - the gift is the Cross, and our righteousness in the Cross.


You are blinded!

The Death of Christ was only for His Elect, His Sheep He laid down His Life for John 10:11, 15!

No amount of trusting [a work of the flesh] by the natural man can ever please God Rom. 8:7-8.

The Elect of God were chosen unto the Adoption of Children/Sons Eph 1:5, to an Eternal Inheritance Eph 1:11!

Rom. 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for;
but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

~~~~~
 

Shasta

Well-known member
Man, and I thought GT could distort a verse - the fruit of the Spirit is a reference to walking in the truth of the Gospel.

The Galatians were not walking in the truth of the Gospel. - of who God had made them by the Spirit in His Son - a new creature.

As a result, they were biting and devouring one another.

What Paul was saying was that, if they were actually walking in the truth of the Gospel they would walk in love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, and goodness, toward one another.

He develops this understanding throughout Romans thru Philemon. One example of many - Galatians 6:

10. As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

15. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Ephesians 1:

4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

This is talking about what God had purposed as to those who, upon their trusting His Son - who Love God by trusting His Son - He baptizes by One Spirit into His Son, and then chooses them unto that service He has purposed in His Son - note - "that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"

Notice that volition - a matter of one's will - continues - Romans 12:

1. I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Every imaginable passage you might throw up on this issue is the same - the issue of being chosen unto service after loving God by trusting His Son.

You need to burn Romans 5 into the mentality of your soul - the gift is the Cross, and our righteousness in the Cross.

Very good exposition. I was blessed by reading it.
 

God's Truth

New member
No one can stand by Faith by his own ability!
Faith is from God, from reading His powerful message, the Bible, the New Testament. It has the powerful message that saves. We do not get faith supernaturally, as many teach, but we get faith in a very human way, from reading the supernatural message!

Where does our faith come from? Our faith comes from HEARING the word, see Romans 10:17. From hearing the word and being TAUGHT, Colossians 1:5, 7. From continuing in what we have been CONVINCED of, see 2 Timothy 3:14, and being PERSUADED, 2 Corinthians 5:11.
Faith springs from Grace which is a Gift of God.
Again, faith comes from hearing, being taught, convinced, and persuaded.

That's why there's no reason to boast or be arrogant.
There is no reason to boast because everyone and ANYONE can be saved just by having living faith.
That demolishes your false doctrines.
The Jews had the ceremonial works to clean themselves in which to boast. They had circumcision, the dietary laws, the special days, special washings, and animal sacrifices in which to boast.
Gal. 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Grace is the gift, and faith comes by hearing God’s message.
Faith is a fruit and gift of the Spirit given in the New Birth to all of the Election of Grace.
So each one of them must become Born Again / Born from Above John 3:7, because they were chosen to be holy
We are chosen to be born again if we believe and obey.
We repent of our sins and are then born again. We have a new life without sin.
2 Tim. 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works,
but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began
That is about not according to the ceremonial works.

Because the natural man is carnal, of the flesh, his own faith or believing
is as filthy rags Is. 64:6, and has no ability whatsoever to please God!
You do not understand those scriptures because you bought what your teachers told you about it.
Rom. 8:7-8 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God,
neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
We have flesh and a spirit.
Those who only want to please their flesh cannot please God; not all only want to please their flesh.
 
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