People who commit suicide go to Hell

[Rusha]

Do you think they are bothered when they are thinking they want to end their life?

I think many thoughts are going through their mind ... including ... "how will my loved one's react?"

 

[Totton Linnet]

It is appointed unto man once to die and after that the judgement.

...too many read that as "after that damnation" only God can judge.

 

[bybee]

Er, no. Nothing in Scripture can be used to argue Saul was regenerated (born again).

God (via Holy Spirit) uses even the wicked for His purposes. This is an amazing condescension on His part, especially when He speaks to them (Gen. 12:17-19).

Balaam, a Midianite, also received the Holy Spirit to prophesy (Numbers 24:1-2) but he was a non-Israelite and died in his sins (Numbers 31:8 cf. Revelation 2:14). There is no indication that Balaam was saved from anything nor received the spirit unto salvation. Why would we say anything different with Saul when there is no indication that he had faith and works, both of which are indisputable signs of regeneration?

When God gives a person the Holy Spirit unto regeneration they believe (1 Corinthians 2:14; 1 John 5:1) and they do good works (Matthew 7:18-20; Ephesians 2:1-10).

The argument that Saul had the Holy Spirit unto salvation from 1 Sam 10:6 and 1 Sam 10:9 is spurious. The word "turned" is not the word used in the OT/NT to refer to regeneration (as per Ezekiel 11:19; 36:26; Jeremiah 31:31; John 3:5; Titus 3:5).

In fact, the same word is used in Psalm 105:25 to refer to the enemies of Israel whom God "turned their heart to hate his people, to deal subtilly with his servants." Thus the word does not have to mean, and does not mean, that Saul was regenerate. Nor does the use of the word "another" imply "new". If the word "new" was used then it would refer to something in regards to regeneration done in the heart of Saul. But where is Saul's new heart? I see no such thing in the Biblical witness. Where is the heart that God gives "to cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them" (Ezekiel 36:27)?

However the account in Scripture is obviously referring to the turning of something in Saul's life and person. But exactly what?

The obvious answer is "courage" for Saul already questions his choosing in chapter 1 Sam 9:21. Saul would need that courage to defeat the Philistines for God´s people (1 Sam 10:16).That he had this lack of courage within himself is indicated by Saul's later hiding amongst the baggage (1 Sam 10:22) Finally the "other heart" is also for prophesying, which no one can do unless God directs and strengthens a man to do so.

Likewise Balaam never would have spoken for Israel precisely because he was being paid to do the opposite. But he did as God compelled; God's will was done even though it did not include Balaam's salvation. Similarly God can turn the heart of the Assyrian king unto the people for their good (Ezra 6:22 and forward, Isaiah 45:1) but he was not regenerate, anymore than God hardening Pharoah's heart was an indication of His favor to him.

The Scripture narrative explicitly tells us that Saul was the handsome and tallest man in Israel. In contrast, however, when David is chosen we read, 1 Samuel 16:7 "But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart."

We must remember that Saul was a punishment to Israel. (1 Samuel 8) God had promised a king to them, (Genesis 49:10; Deuteronomy 17:14-20; 1 Kings 2:10) but they did not want to have God reign over them and therefore He gives them a man who is no good for them (1 Samuel 8:10-18). Saul was not a man after God's own heart but David was. Clearly the choosing of Saul was to illustrate God's sovereign purposes in doing what is good for Israel, even when she acts and chooses badly. When God decides what is right and when we are ready to have it, then it is good. As soon as we act (selfishly) on our own impulses disaster results.

Listen to the voices of those that have come before us:

Spoiler

John Calvin:

2.2.17

God inspires special activities, in accordance with each man´s calling. Many examples of this occur in The Book of Judges, where it is said that "the Spirit of the Lord took possession" of those men whom he had called to rule the people [Judges 6:34]. In short, in every extraordinary event there is some particular impulsion. For this reason, Saul was followed by the brave men "whose hearts God had touched" [1 Samuel 10:26]. And when Saul´s consecration as king was foretold, Samuel said: "Then the Spirit of the Lord will come mightily upon you, and you shall be another man" 1 Samuel 10:6]. And this was extended to the whole course of government, as is said afterward of David: "The Spirit of the Lord came upon him from that day forward" [1 Samuel 16:13].

2.3.4

"we point out what special grace the Lord has bestowed upon the one, while not deigning to bestow it upon the other. When he wished to put Saul over the kingdom he "formed him as a new man" [1 Samuel 10:6 p.]. This is the reason that Plato, alluding to the Homeric legend, says that kings' sons are born with some distinguishing mark. For God, in providing for the human race, often endows with a heroic nature those destined to command."

Zacharias Ursinus, in his commentary on the Heidelberg Catechism, notes, Twentieth Lord's Day (Q&A 53), section IX: "Whether, and how the Holy Ghost May Be Lost" :

"The Holy Spirit left Saul who was one of the elect. Therefore he may leave others also.

Answer:
It was not the Spirit of regeneration and adoption which forsook Saul, but the spirit of prophecy, of wisdom, courage and other gifts of a similar character with which he was endowed. Neither was he chosen unto eternal life, but merely to be king, as Judas was chosen to the apostleship. It is still further objected: The Spirit of regeneration may also forsake the elect; for David prayed, "Restore unto me the joys of thy salvation." To this we reply that the godly may, and often do lose many of the gifts of the Spirit of regeneration; but they do not lose them wholly: for it cannot possible be that they should lose every particle of faith, inasmuch as they do not sin unto death; but from the weakness of the flesh, not being perfectly renewed in this life. This the apostle John expressly affirms when he says, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 John 3:19) David in his fall, lost the joy which he had felt in his soul, the purity of conscience, and many other gifts which he earnestly prayed might be restored unto him; but he had not wholly lost the Spirit of God."

Likewise Matthew Henry explains:

What occurred by the way, v. 9. Those signs which Samuel had given him came to pass very punctually; but that which gave him the greatest satisfaction of all was this, he found immediately that God had given him another heart. A new fire was kindled in his breast, such as he had never before been acquainted with: seeking the ***** is quite out of his mind, and he thinks of nothing but fighting the Philistines, redressing the grievances of Israel, making laws, administering justice, and providing for the public safety; these are the things that now fill his head. He finds himself raised to such a pitch of boldness and bravery as he never thought he should be conscious of. He has no longer the heart of a husbandman, which is low, and mean, and narrow, and concerned only about his corn and cattle; but the heart of a statesman, a general, a prince. Whom God calls to any service he will make fit for it. If he advance to another station, he will give another heart, to those who sincerely desire to serve him with their power.

Only when one starts to assume Hebrews 6 is teaching that the regenerated believer can lose his or her salvation do we see the sort of wrong assumptions you have made above.

AMR

Thanks, you make Scripture clear for me. I have always thought that Jonathan's life was a real tragedy in the story of Saul and David.

 

[Truster]

Saul did not slay himself Yah Veh slew him....
...1 Chron 10:14 ''And inquired not of Yah Veh: therefore He slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse''.

The term suicide and what it actually conveys to us did not exist in the scriptures. The Eternal Almighty is the giver, sustainer and if He so pleases the destroyer of life itself.

 

[Nick M]

I really hope God isn't so cruel as to eternally damn suicide victims to Hell. But it's something I've heard very often.

It is unbiblical. Al men are cursed from Adam and die no matter how much or how little sin. All are offered the free gift of life no matter how much or how little sin. Righteousness is imputed, not earned.

 

[serpentdove]

...I will never understand how someone could put their family and loved one's through such heartbreak.

Ro 7:13

 

[serpentdove]

I think many thoughts are going through their mind ... including ... "how will my loved one's react?"

Some don't have

loved ones. Ro 12:3

 

[flintstoned]

I think that those who commit suicide go to hell, but not necessarily because they committed suicide. If a person commits suicide, it is evidence that they most likely do not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and are therefore not regenerated. They go to hell just like any other unregenerate sinner.

1 Corinthians 6
18Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body. 19Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

1 Corinthians 3:16-17
Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.

 

[serpentdove]

1 Corinthians 3:16-17
Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.

"1 Co 3:17. If any … defile … destroy—rather as the Greek verb is the same in both cases, “destroy … destroy.” God repays in kind by a righteous retaliation. The destroyer shall himself be destroyed. As temporal death was the penalty of marring the material temple (Le 16:2; Da 5:2, 3, 30), so eternal death is the penalty of marring the spiritual temple—the Church. The destroyers here (1 Co 3:16, 17), are distinct from the unwise or unskilful builders (1 Co 3:12, 15); the latter held fast the “foundation” (1 Co 3:11), and, therefore, though they lose their work of superstructure and the special reward, yet they are themselves saved; the destroyers, on the contrary, assailed with false teaching the foundation, and so subvert the temple itself, and shall therefore be destroyed. (See on 1 Co 3:10), [ESTIUS and NEANDER]. I think Paul passes here from the teachers to all the members of the Church, who, by profession, are “priests unto God” (Ex 19:6; 1 Pe 2:9; Rev 1:6). As the Aaronic priests were doomed to die if they violated the old temple (Ex 28:43), so any Christian who violates the sanctity of the spiritual temple, shall perish eternally (Heb 12:14)." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 269). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

 

[Town Heretic]

I was going to kill my self before because of all the wrongs that were happening to me. I fantasized about suicide and it gave me relief and quite honestly happy. I planned it but did not go through with it because someone intervened. I believe it is a sickness. I don't believe I would have gone to hell for doing it. I don't see how that makes sense to send a sick person to hell, especially someone who believes in you with all their heart.

Hard to see Christ on the cross condemning someone that lost and in despair. I agree with the sickness conclusion and I'm glad you're still among us to offer this testimony, among other things. :cheers:

 

[Ktoyou]

Suicide is the byproduct of a form of insanity. Someone overcomes their own instinct for survival, their biological and emotional imperative...they need help, not judgment.

Maybe this does not apply? I think if someone my age, who develops liver cancer, and refuses toxic treatment, is not insane, or acting sinful. In some cases, i think the treatment is sinful

 

[Nick M]

I think that those who commit suicide go to hell, but not necessarily because they committed suicide. If a person commits suicide, it is evidence that they most likely do not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and are therefore not regenerated.

What if they covet? Is that evidence they do not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? What if the person robs a 7-11 and murders the cashier over the $21.17 in the drawer? Is that evidence they are not indwelt?

If a person does not rob and murder is that evidence that they are indwelt?

Think about it, I will wait.

 

[Robert Pate]

No matter how one views election, it is only the elect that are in Heaven. Your issue is with eternal punishment, nothing more.

AMR

And the elect are all that have come to Christ as repentant sinners to be saved by him.

Such as in Acts 2:41.

 

[HisServant]

Everyone goes exactly where God wants them..... the matter of death is irrevalent.

It really bothers me that the RCC thinks people with mental illnesses go to hell.

 

[patrick jane]

It is unbiblical. Al men are cursed from Adam and die no matter how much or how little sin. All are offered the free gift of life no matter how much or how little sin. Righteousness is imputed, not earned.

true. it is nowhere in the Bible, it's a catholic belief and teaching - atrol:

 

[meshak]

I was going to kill my self before because of all the wrongs that were happening to me. I fantasized about suicide and it gave me relief and quite honestly happy. I planned it but did not go through with it because someone intervened. I believe it is a sickness. I don't believe I would have gone to hell for doing it. I don't see how that makes sense to send a sick person to hell, especially someone who believes in you with all their heart.

Yes, it is sickness.

 

[Arthur Brain]

No matter how one views election, it is only the elect that are in Heaven. Your issue is with eternal punishment, nothing more.

AMR

Of course I have an issue with a doctrine that advocates the interminable unending suffering of other people. What person with the merest shred of compassion wouldn't? The Calvinist doctrine essentially just adds another abhorrent aspect to the darkest of the dark, that people like yourself are spared from it for no reason that can be attributed to yourselves while others rot. No amount of 'intellectual' verbosity can reduce pain and suffering of that magnitude to a mere concept and considering you must have seen some absolute horrors as a Vietnam vet I'm just all the more sickened by your adherence to such a thing and the detachment with which you purport it all.

 

[freelight]

Issues............

Issues............

Of course I have an issue with a doctrine that advocates the interminable unending suffering of other people. What person with the merest shred of compassion wouldn't? The Calvinist doctrine essentially just adds another abhorrent aspect to the darkest of the dark, that people like yourself are spared from it for no reason that can be attributed to yourselves while others rot. No amount of 'intellectual' verbosity can reduce pain and suffering of that magnitude to a mere concept and considering you must have seen some absolute horrors as a Vietnam vet I'm just all the more sickened by your adherence to such a thing and the detachment with which you purport it all.

Oh come on AB,...you're missing the serious forensics and doctrinal fortitude behind such reasoning....I mean....this stuff is supported by some serious 'systematic theology' - (poking fun)

You know I agree with you and have been contesting ECT, and am no fan of 'double-predestination' either. AMR knows I've beaten a few TULIPs in my time

My former thoughts on suicide hold, having some close associations who underwent such an ordeal,...as I trust 'God' (or the Universe and its laws) to be wholly just and merciful in EVERY CASE,...each case being special to 'God', as much as each soul is special, individual and his very own offspring. We could go in loops on the subject, but it all comes back to Infinite LOVE and Wisdom holding court, as nothing is adjudicated by the higher powers that Be...without it.

No matter what pain/agony a suicide leaves upon survivors, it is all absolved/resolved ultimately by grace. Divine grace is all-sufficient.

 

[Nick M]

Of course I have an issue with a doctrine that advocates the interminable unending suffering of other people.

Liar. I have proof. You are still here on TOL and you provide unending suffering for the Body of Christ as you constantly promote evil and wickedness.

 

[Timotheos]

Only a completely compassionless blowhard would determine that anyone who ends their own life would go or deserves to go to some sort of "hell".

You know that I don't believe in eternal conscious torture in hell. (The Bible says that the lost perish, John 3:16, Romans 6:23)

I'm just idly wondering now. Does a person who ends their own life receive eternal life? Would they want it? If they want to perish, would God allow them to perish? Or in the resurrection will their opinion of life change?