Pastors

[PastorZ77]

In my opinion--and I believe the Bible supports this--a Pastor is a like a waiter and a bouncer combined. He feeds the sheep, and chases out the wolves. A difficult and essential role in the body.

There's so much more to it than this. Some of which one could never know unless they were a part. Psalm 23 is a good place to start however.

 

[elohiym]

There's so much more to it than this. Some of which one could never know unless they were a part.

How would you know?

Explain what is meant by "green pastures" and "still waters"in Psalm 23.
Then explain what is meant by "he restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake." If you are a pastor, and understand what a pastor truly does, enlighten us.

A pastor is a servant (waiter) and guardian (bouncer). That is his primary role in the church. If you disagree, then prove me wrong, rather than pointing to scriptures I doubt you understand.

 

[PastorZ77]

How would you know?

Because I've been pastoring for nearly 7 years.

Explain what is meant by "green pastures" and "still waters"in Psalm 23.
Then explain what is meant by "he restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake." If you are a pastor, and understand what a pastor truly does, enlighten us.

A pastor is a servant (waiter) and guardian (bouncer). That is his primary role in the church. If you disagree, then prove me wrong, rather than pointing to scriptures I doubt you understand.

Here goes you great "Christians" again! Woo hoo!



Untie your undershorts there hotshot...

I never said these two examples you presented were not accurate. If you read well enough you saw that I said there is more to it than this.

 

[elohiym]

Because I've been pastoring for nearly 7 years.

Sure.

Here goes you great "Christians" again! Woo hoo!



Untie your undershorts there hotshot...

First the smoke...

I never said these two examples you presented were not accurate. If you read well enough you saw that I said there is more to it than this.

...then the mirror.

Yes, you said, "there is more to it than this." Then you pointed to Psalm 23.

I don't think you can explain what more there is to being a shepard (pastor) than feeding sheeping and protecting the flock from wolves. Furthermore, I don't think you understand Psalm 23.

 

[PastorZ77]

Sure.

First the smoke...

...then the mirror.

Yes, you said, "there is more to it than this." Then you pointed to Psalm 23.

I don't think you can explain what more there is to being a shepard (pastor) than feeding sheeping and protecting the flock from wolves. Furthermore, I don't think you understand Psalm 23.

You people are hillarioius, it's a good thing you learned everything you needed to in kindergarten, otherwise you wouldn't know a thing since you know so much now and cant learn anything else.

 

[elohiym]

You people are hillarioius, it's a good thing you learned everything you needed to in kindergarten, otherwise you wouldn't know a thing since you know so much now and cant learn anything else.

YOU said, "there is more to it [being a pastor] than this." What is the "more to this" you are claiming. Explain, or go away.

YOU pointed to Psalm 23, so explain how that describes more than feeding sheep and protecting them. Explain, or go away.

If you could explain yourself, you wouldn't be evasive about it, nor would you be getting defensive about it. Typical of posers that call themsleves pastors.

 

[PastorZ77]

YOU said, "there is more to it [being a pastor] than this." What is the "more to this" you are claiming. Explain, or go away.

YOU pointed to Psalm 23, so explain how that describes more than feeding sheep and protecting them. Explain, or go away.

If you could explain yourself, you wouldn't be evasive about it, nor would you be getting defensive about it. Typical of posers that call themsleves pastors.

Do you praise the Lord with those lips?

You should watch out...really.

 

[elohiym]

Do you praise the Lord with those lips?

Are you a stupid hypocrite, or just a hypocrite?

Read back through your last posts and see if you can spot the hypocrisy. Read slowly.

You should watch out...really.

I am watching out for you, poser. atrol:

You should not claim there is more to something someone else says, unless you are able to explain what that something more is.

 

[Daniel50]

Actually, I do consider Sozo a pastor. In my opinion, he fits that role well.

In my opinion--and I believe the Bible supports this--a Pastor is a like a waiter and a bouncer combined. He feeds the sheep, and chases out the wolves. A difficult and essential role in the body.

So many who call themselves Pastor, don't feed the sheep, and actually invite the wolves to dine. :sigh:

Ezekiel 34:1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe [be] to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?

3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: [but] ye feed not the flock.

4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up [that which was] broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.

5 And they were scattered, because [there is] no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered. {because...: or, without a shepherd}

6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek [after them].

7 Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;

8 [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because [there was] no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock; {because...: or, without a shepherd}

9 Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;

10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

11 For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, [even] I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.

12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep [that are] scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day. {As...: Heb. According to the seeking}

13 And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country.

14 I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and [in] a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel.

15 I will feed my flock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord GOD.

16 I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up [that which was] broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment.

 

[kmoney]

Reverence is nothing more than "deep respect", I certainly don't think there is anything wrong with giving special respect to certain folks.

Afterall.... there are all sorts of examples of that in the Bible i.e., widows, older men etc.

Me thinks this is a bit like making a mountain errrrrrrrr maybe a small mound out of a molehill.

I agree with that.

 

[elohiym]

Ezekiel 34:1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe [be] to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?

3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: [but] ye feed not the flock.

4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up [that which was] broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.

5 And they were scattered, because [there is] no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered. {because...: or, without a shepherd}

6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek [after them].

7 Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;

8 [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because [there was] no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock; {because...: or, without a shepherd}

9 Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;

10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

11 For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, [even] I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.

12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep [that are] scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day. {As...: Heb. According to the seeking}

13 And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country.

14 I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and [in] a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel.

15 I will feed my flock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord GOD.

16 I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up [that which was] broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment.

An excellent choice of scripture, Chandru.

 

[Daniel50]

An excellent choice of scripture, Chandru.


Thank you Sir......

 

[Lucky]

few more thoughts

few more thoughts

That's when it becomes a formal title. I believe there is potential danger in using our roles in the Church as titles, especially when "Pastor" is the only title used.

The danger that I'm talking about is that it threatens to divide the one Body into different ranks, based on title. All of us in the one Body are under one Lord. We are not under Pastors. They have no spiritual authority over us, which I know at least one person here believes:

From now on, instead of saying "Pastor Dwayne," I'll say, "Dwayne, the guy who preaches on Sunday and Wednesday and has spiritual authority over the church."

 

[swanca99]

My Plymouth Brethren background is showing here, but...

I think the view that a pastor is an elder with the gift of leadership and "shepherding" is more consistent with Scripture. Even among protestants, the pastor/people relationship smacks too much of the clergy/laity system.

Even among Brethren assemblies, though, I've seen a lot of full-time staff members who bear the title of "pastor." This is very ironic given that the Plymouth Brethren originated as a split from the Anglican Church largely in rebellion against the latter's clergy/laity system.

 

[Mr. 5020]

The danger that I'm talking about is that it threatens to divide the one Body into different ranks, based on title. All of us in the one Body are under one Lord. We are not under Pastors. They have no spiritual authority over us, which I know at least one person here believes:

Correction: two people.

Yes. :wink:

BTW, in regards to my above post, I believe that the "Government" of the local church (which is a God given gift btw) should resemble a monarchy.

Instead of King, you have Pastor as head.

 

[Mr. 5020]

The danger that I'm talking about is that it threatens to divide the one Body into different ranks, based on title. All of us in the one Body are under one Lord. We are not under Pastors. They have no spiritual authority over us, which I know at least one person here believes:

I'm not sure exactly what the problem is here. I'm not saying that my pastor has spiritual authority over me, as a Christian. The Bible is my authority, and if my pastor was to do something that I believed was in contradiction with the Bible, I would address it.

However, I do believe that God has given the pastor authority over the church. This simply means that the church, as an organization, follows the pastor's direction. What is the problem with this exactly?

 

[Jackson]

In the NT, in the translation I'm using (KJV), that is the only time it's used. Would you say those are titles or roles some members take on in the Church (Body of Christ)? They look like roles to me. I know Paul is sometimes referred to as "Apostle Paul", but even that I don't think is in the Bible. And if those are titles, why don't you ever hear "Prophet Bob", "Evangelist Jack", or "Teacher Phil"?

G4166
ποιμήν
poimēn
poy-mane'
Of uncertain affinity; a shepherd (literally or figuratively): - shepherd, pastor.


Total KJV Occurrences: 18
shepherd, 13
Mat_9:36, Mat_25:32, Mat_26:31, Mar_6:34, Mar_14:27, Joh_10:2, Joh_10:11-12 (3), Joh_10:14, Joh_10:16, Heb_13:20, 1Pe_2:25
shepherds, 4
Luk_2:8, Luk_2:15, Luk_2:18, Luk_2:20
pastors, 1
Eph_4:11

 

[Psalmist]

That's when it becomes a formal title. I believe there is potential danger in using our roles in the Church as titles, especially when "Pastor" is the only title used. I have no problem with saying "Jethro is a pastor over at Warmpews Church in Townsville", that's describing his role. When it's "Pastor Jethro", that's another story. It's easy to see the potential danger in using titles like "Father", "Priest", "Reverend", "Pope", but "Pastor" often gets a free pass. Just not from me.

:think: RABBI, what happened to Rabbi

"Pastor" often gets a free pass, is that the pastor's discount?

I myself think "Pastor" is a less pretentious "Reverend"

 

[Psalmist]

Ezekiel 34:1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe [be] to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?

3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: [but] ye feed not the flock.

4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up [that which was] broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.

5 And they were scattered, because [there is] no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered. {because...: or, without a shepherd}

6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek [after them].

7 Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;

8 [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because [there was] no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock; {because...: or, without a shepherd}

9 Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;

10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

11 For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, [even] I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.

12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep [that are] scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day. {As...: Heb. According to the seeking}

13 And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country.

14 I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and [in] a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel.

15 I will feed my flock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord GOD.

16 I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up [that which was] broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment.

Good verse selection.



Here are somemore . . .

Yes, they are greedy dogs which never have enough. And they are shepherds who cannot understand; They all look to their own way, every one for his own gain, from his own territory. Isaiah 56:11 <> For the shepherds have become dull-hearted, and have not sought the LORD; therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered. Jeremiah 10:21 <> "Woe to the shepherds who destroy and scatter the sheep of My pasture!" says the LORD. Jeremiah 3:1 <> 34 "Wail, shepherds, and cry! Roll about in the ashes, you leaders of the flock! For the days of your slaughter and your dispersions are fulfilled; You shall fall like a precious vessel. 35 And the shepherds will have no way to flee, nor the leaders of the flock to escape. 36 A voice of the cry of the shepherds, and a wailing of the leaders to the flock will be heard. For the LORD has plundered their pasture, 37 and the peaceful dwellings are cut down because of the Fierce anger of the LORD.” Jeremiah 25:34-36, 37

"My people have been lost sheep. Their shepherds have led them astray; they have turned them away on the mountains. They have gone from mountain to hill; they have forgotten their resting place.” Jeremiah 50:6

3a There is the sound of wailing shepherds! <> 17 Woe to the worthless shepherd, who leaves the flock! A word shall be against his arm And against his right eye; His arm shall completely wither, And his right eye shall be totally blinded. Zech. 11:3a, 17

 

[Psalmist]

Pastor or Shepherd is ok. However....some qualification is in order.

The western view of Pastor, I believe, is overblown. Especially here in the United States, where in many churches, the Pastor is the Preacher, the Teacher, the Shepherd, the Visionary, the Counselor, an Elder, bulletin printer, format organizer, sidewalk shoveler, and so on.

I believe that specifically, the Pastor is a shepherd. He is one who cares for the flock, keeps a watchful eye on them, and is a visionary for the church. He assesses the needs of the entire local church and is a 'project manager' so to speak.

He doesn't have to necessarily be the Preacher. The preacher is one who gets various doctrines, theologies and applications to the local Body.

The Teacher, also delineated by Paul, is one who addresses more specific questions and topics in a teacher/student relationship.

more later as it comes to me

I agree with the "overblown" statement, and your assessment about "the Pastor is . . . "

My wallet card and framed document states, "Reverend . . ." However I don't use it all that much.

At the nursing home and and funeral homes they call me "Pastor . . ." and I am also listed as "Chaplain . . ."

So I'll leave it at that, it is courtesy, it is just title, a designation. Just as Jesus said, "Not all who say Lord, Lord . . ." - So it is that not ALL who have "Pastor" in front of their name are, especially "nots" should know better.