OSAS

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Meshak is trying her best to earn her eternal life. She's doing tons and tons
of good works and obedience.

 

[nikolai_42]

I am making it clear that your doctrine is false.

There are too many so called true and saved Christians misrepresent Jesus with their doctrines and deeds.

Jesus says we know them by their fruit, not by what they claim or by their doctrine.

What have you made clear? How? To who? All I did was quote Jesus speaking about sheep.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I am making it clear that your doctrine is false.

There are too many so called true and saved Christians misrepresent Jesus with their doctrines and deeds.

Jesus says we know them by their fruit, not by what they claim or by their doctrines.

Meshak "KNOWS!!"

 

[nikolai_42]

It is clear that you don't have confidence in what you claim.

Your own words are that Jesus doesn't teach OSAS (not that anyone's salvation - or lack of it - refutes it). I used Jesus' words to show that He does show certainty. Are you basing your doctrine on Jesus' words or on other people's spiritual state? That's why it's so critical to make this about what you started - what Jesus said.

 

[Totton Linnet]

It is very interesting to compare a goat with a sheep, their natures are so different....the goat is ill tempered and ill disposed toward everyone, off on his own.

God's truth [turned to a lie] ? shackles ?

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

To make my point clear.

Are you saved?

Odd that you repeatedly ask another for your question to be answered, yet when I ask a question to you to define what you mean by "saved", you wave off any direct response.

AMR

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus, in John 10, is speaking in the completed sense (His sheep know His voice and will never follow another). Paul is often speaking in the immediate sense (right now...what is your approach to God?). If you accept both Jesus and Paul as authoritative, then that's the only way to read these passages consistently. Unless you want the absurdity that someone can actually change identity multiple times.

Sheep...no - goat!....now sheep....now goat...Sheep!...goat!

The sheep in the scripture were as heifers.
That is the Word of God.

Neither you nor God seem to know what you are - or what you will be! Or if God knows, He's not going to tell you. Stark contrast to the assurance and simplicity found here :

I am trying to help you know when a person is a sheep or not---the Bible tells us how to know.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
John 10:1-5

The sheep has no intention of disobeying his Master. None. The sheep may be dumb and wayward - but there is not a bit of guile in his actions. He knows his Shepherd and follows Him. And if he goes astray, the Shepherd finds him and brings him.

What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7

When was that sheep ever a goat? And notice how Jesus makes it clear that Him bringing the sheep back signifies repentance...

When was a goat ever in the hands of God? Why would it be dreadful? Think about it.

 

[chrysostom]

Odd that you repeatedly ask another for your question to be answered, yet when I ask a question to you to define what you mean by "saved", you wave off any direct response.

AMR

we know what it means
we also know the answer
you are not saved
I am not saved
meshak is not saved
and
anyone who says they are
does not know what they are talking about

 

[God's Truth]

So are you saved?

If you do not know if you are saved, then you are not.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?

 

[God's Truth]

It has already been stated that God will not be mocked.

That means if you are a believer who lives like a sinner, you will suffer destruction.

 

[God's Truth]

You'll never make it if you wait till you die shackles...you haven't made it yet have you? you seethe with hatred for everyone, that can't be right.

If you were a sheep of God's pasture you would be in His flock....are you in His flock? doesn't He drive you out from among His sheep?

Second life is not looking very good for you shackles

You also have hatred for God's Word, just like Meshak.

You both have judged each other correctly.

 

[nikolai_42]

The sheep in the scripture were as heifers.
That is the Word of God.

I am trying to help you know when a person is a sheep or not---the Bible tells us how to know.

In the NT, Jesus is speaking of sheep in a very specific way. It would be dangerous to assume that the exact same thing is meant in the OT. Yes, sheep behave like sheep and heifers like heifers. But in the gospels, Jesus defines His sheep very definitely as those that are His - whether they are currently obeying Him or not. It should be clear to anyone with a passing familiarity with scripture that the OT did not approach salvation in quite the same way (even if man is always saved by faith). They were, after all, called the times of ignorance that God winked at (Acts 17:30).

When was a goat ever in the hands of God? Why would it be dreadful? Think about it.

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God. All men will fall into His hands at some point. It will be utter torment for some and for others found in Christ it will be unto life (but still probably an overwhelming experience). So I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here.

 

[nikolai_42]

If you do not know if you are saved, then you are not.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?

With that I disagree. That scripture establishes the guidelines for direction in examining one's faith. If one looks too closely at himself for righteousness, he will find great reason for doubt. But if one is resting in the doctrine of Christ - resting in Him and not trusting in themselves - then they won't examine the "I", but they will examine whether they trust Him or not. That is, is their faith in Him or in their works? Remember who Jesus said was justified...

Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Luke 18:10-14

It should be pretty clear that the publican had very little confidence in himself - and if asked if he was saved would doubt it. When God extends mercy to him, there will be no doubt that it is all of God and none of himself.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Odd that you repeatedly ask another for your question to be answered, yet when I ask a question to you to define what you mean by "saved", you wave off any direct response.

AMR

She won't answer any questions from anybody.

 

[God's Truth]

In the NT, Jesus is speaking of sheep in a very specific way. It would be dangerous to assume that the exact same thing is meant in the OT.

How do you ever get that it is dangerous?

Yes, sheep behave like sheep and heifers like heifers. But in the gospels, Jesus defines His sheep very definitely as those that are His - whether they are currently obeying Him or not.

Anyone can become the person Jesus saves.

Matthew 18:3 And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

It should be clear to anyone with a passing familiarity with scripture that the OT did not approach salvation in quite the same way (even if man is always saved by faith). They were, after all, called the times of ignorance that God winked at (Acts 17:30).

Salvation has always been the same. It has always been that way. In the time of Adam and Eve, it was about believing and obeying God. In the time of Cain and Abel, it was about believing and obeying God. In the time of Noah, it was about believing and obeying God. In the time of Abraham, it was about believing and obeying God, in the time of Jesus, it was about believing and obeying God. In the time of Paul, it was about believing and obeying God. In our times now, it is about believing and obeying God.

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God. All men will fall into His hands at some point. It will be utter torment for some and for others found in Christ it will be unto life (but still probably an overwhelming experience). So I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here.

The scripture is about God’s people obeying, if they do not obey, it will be a dreadful thing.

Read carefully until you get up to the part about it being a dreadful thing.

26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people."
31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[Totton Linnet]

You also have hatred for God's Word, just like Meshak.

You both have judged each other correctly.

Have you joined an assembly? why not?

 

[Bright Raven]

Have you joined an assembly? why not?

Yep!

Hebrews 10:25 New King James Version (NKJV)

25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

 

[Totton Linnet]

How do you ever get that it is dangerous?

Anyone can become the person Jesus saves.

Matthew 18:3 And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Salvation has always been the same. It has always been that way. In the time of Adam and Eve, it was about believing and obeying God. In the time of Cain and Abel, it was about believing and obeying God. In the time of Noah, it was about believing and obeying God. In the time of Abraham, it was about believing and obeying God, in the time of Jesus, it was about believing and obeying God. In the time of Paul, it was about believing and obeying God. In our times now, it is about believing and obeying God.

The scripture is about God’s people obeying, if they do not obey, it will be a dreadful thing.

Read carefully until you get up to the part about it being a dreadful thing.

26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people."
31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

God's command is BELIEVE...this you disobey...then He says love the brethren, why are you unchurched?

 

[God's Truth]

With that I disagree. That scripture establishes the guidelines for direction in examining one's faith. If one looks too closely at himself for righteousness, he will find great reason for doubt.

You are badly mistaken.
The scripture says to examine yourself, and you say there is a warning there about examining too efficiently!

But if one is resting in the doctrine of Christ - resting in Him and not trusting in themselves - then they won't examine the "I", but they will examine whether they trust Him or not. That is, is their faith in Him or in their works? Remember who Jesus said was justified...

If a person has to examine themselves at all, then they are not saved. A believer ought to know if they are living through Jesus by obeying him.

Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Luke 18:10-14

It should be pretty clear that the publican had very little confidence in himself - and if asked if he was saved would doubt it. When God extends mercy to him, there will be no doubt that it is all of God and none of himself.

That scripture is about having to repent to be saved.
The Pharisee would not admit he had sinned, and therefore did not repent.

 

[God's Truth]

God's command is BELIEVE...this you disobey...then He says love the brethren, why are you unchurched?

The churches are full of people such as yourself, and a false teacher up front that allows you to stay there.