heir
TOL Subscriber
I cited 2 Timothy 2:13 KJV earlier and these POTSheads all ignored it.
OSAS and Suicide
- Thread starter glassjester
- Start date
If you take your Arminian glasses off, you will realize that the verse doesn't defend your standing. And as well, it is just 'proof texting' which is a fallacy in interpretation.
I can easily throw these verses at you:
Romans 8:29
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Also
'POTSheads'- I knew that was coming before you posted it :chuckle:
Right Divider
Body part
You're so impressive....... NOT.
Did God create some with the explicit intention of condemning them?
Did you notice WHO he was talking to?
heir
TOL Subscriber
Yes, that's true to what Paul preached and I believe it.
As to 2 Timothy 2:13 KJV: Even if we get to the point where we believe not, yet He abideth faithful: He cannot deny Himself!
Our justification and salvation are by the faith OF Jesus Christ!
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
...
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
...
We didn't DO anything to be saved and/or to stay saved.
That's not written TO anyone in the Body of Christ and can't be used against us. This is to us and is in contrast to Matthew 7:21's "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven,..."
2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
If the shoe fits...
heir
TOL Subscriber
It's sad that we know that's how they read it, but it just means what it says, not the religious baggage they attach to it.
Hey look, a mad MADist. Did you just get done polishing your decoder ring?
Let me break it down for you- if you are lawless, then you are lawless. Confessing belief does not magically make one lawful. God does not justify wickedness, nor does He save the wicked, or make the mistake of putting such a soul in grace.
Therefore, PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Cruci doesn't care who it addresses. He's a POTShead playing in the MUD.
:dizzy: You must have faith in him (Jn 20:31).
"Ro 3:3:3, 4 Paul anticipated that Jewish readers would disagree with his statements that God has not guaranteed to fulfill His promises to every physical descendant of Abraham. They would argue that such teaching nullifies all the promises God made to the Jews in the OT. But his answer reflects both the explicit and implicit teaching of the OT; before any Jew, regardless of the purity of his lineage, can inherit the promises, he must come to repentance and faith (cf. 9:6, 7; Is. 55:6, 7)..."
"Ro 8:33, 34 The setting of these verses is the divine courtroom.
8:33 God’s elect. See notes on vv. 29, 30. It is God who justifies. See note on 3:24. Who can successfully accuse someone whom God has declared righteous?..."
"The nature of Paul’s rebuke (2:14–21)
The contents (2:14–18): He reminded Peter that it is faith, not circumcision, that saves both Jews and Gentiles.
The conclusion (2:19–21)
All believers have been crucified with Christ (2:19–20a).
All believers are to live by the faith of the indwelling Christ (2:20b–21)." Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Ga 2:11–21). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.
"...Eph 3:12 access with confidence. Every person who comes to Christ in faith can come before God at any time, not in self-confidence but in Christ-confidence..." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1807). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.
"Abraham and his seed (4:16–25): Paul shows the results of Abraham’s faith following his salvation.
Abraham’s physical seed (4:18–22)
The promise (4:18) : God told Abraham he would bear a son through Sarah.
The problem (4:19) : Abraham and his barren wife were too old for this.
The perseverance (4:20–22): Abraham continued to believe God for the impossible, and Isaac was born!" Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Ro 4:13–22). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.
2 Co 11:30
See:
Unwrapping your spiritual gifts by Adrian Rogers
heir
TOL Subscriber
Where have I ever said that man must not have faith in God? I haven't. I know that one must believe. There is no other way for the righteousness of God to be upon you (Romans 3:21-22 KJV). That does not negate that it is by the faith OF Jesus Christ that we are justified (Galatians 2:16 KJV). Get over yourself.
You both are doing just as my signature says- pushing up daisies.
That is, watering down God's sovereignty and Christianity altogether.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Who was the Lord talking to in Matthew 7? The answer is the 12 (Matthew 5:1 KJV, Matthew 10:5-6 KJV) and in a wider scope: the lost sheep of the house of Israel to whom He was sent (Matthew 15:24 KJV, Romans 15:8 KJV)! Thinking you can take what is written there and apply it TO anyone in the dispensation of the grace of God is wrongly dividing the word of truth!
I do not water down God's sovereignty. Show where I have done so. Otherwise zip your lip.
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
You deny that God has sovereignty over all things in that you compartmentalize free will from what He ordained. As well, you believe there is a moral difference between creating what is knowingly going to become disastrous, and explicit predestination.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Nope.
Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Colossians 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
I believe and understand that to whom He foreknew, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren, just not your religious redefining of terms.
Man having his "own will" (Leviticus 19:5 KJV, Leviticus 22:19 KJV, Leviticus 22:29 KJV, Daniel 11:16 KJV) causes no interference with God's sovereignty.
Your will is shaped by what is ordained by God. To say otherwise is just a flat out intellectual sin, as the elect do not elect themselves.
MADist's call themselves 'right dividers', but it isn't of reason or doctrinal solidarity. It's more like when one side flops, you can simply resort to the other :nono:
Gives way to nothing but hypocrisy.
And
Railing on what you call 'religious redefining' is just a way to disguise the arbitrary nature of your beliefs. I see this all the time with dispensationalists- they always depend on mystery to shove aside rationality.
:dizzy: Men are saved by grace through faith (Eph 2:8-9).
:yawn: Ad infinitum Eph 4:14
:hammer: You have no righteousness of your own. Christ's righteousness is imputed to the believer (Rom. 5:18, 19).
"...QUESTION AND ANSWER (3:21–30)
Question (3:21a): How then does God save people?
Answer (3:21b–30)
The need for salvation (3:23) : It is desperately needed, for all have sinned and fallen short of God’s glory.
The Old Testament witness to salvation (3:21b): The Scriptures promise salvation apart from the law.
The method of salvation (3:22, 24–25, 27–28)
Negative (3:27–28): It is not accomplished by good works.
Positive (3:22, 24–25): It comes about by grace through faith in the sacrifice of Christ.
The legal accomplishment of salvation (3:26) : It permits a just and holy God to declare repenting sinners righteous.
The scope of salvation (3:29–30): It is available for both Jews and Gentiles alike." Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Ro 3:19–30). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.
:yawn: Ad hominem
glassjester
Well-known member
To those of you that responded, thank you!
Crucible and AMR, thanks for explaining your understanding in greater depth.
Crucible and AMR, thanks for explaining your understanding in greater depth.
Right Divider
Body part
Many, many times in the Bible God tells people to make choices. But according to your perverted version, they really don't get to make choices. That it is always the puppet-master "god" of yours that is pulling all of the strings.
Everybody is a Calvinist when they are on their knees praying.
That is a common saying for a lot of Reformed Christians, because it explains the futility of other theologies- you want a god who is in control when you need it, but preach something a bit different when you don't.
Let's look at Pharaoh, for example- he probably wasn't so bad being that God had to harden his heart several times over to keep the Jews from being emancipated. This was needed so that God's providence could be revealed.
When God has man make decisions, it is only to exalt His underlying providence- in other words, it's not really a choice at all.
Right Divider
Body part
Silly cliché; silly opinion.
I see that you finally come clean with your REAL vain philosophy that your "god" is just a puppet-master and NOT the God of the Bible.
Your "god" is a liar that tells people they have to make "choices" that are not real "choices" at all.
Thanks for showing your true colors.
heir
TOL Subscriber
If what you say is true, there would be no point in beseeching us to present our bodies a living sacrifice (ministry) nor renewing our mind (doctrinal). There'd be no point in beseeching at all!
Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Oh, please! You don't even have a word of truth to rightly divide. You have nothing to say. Nothing to hope for. Nothing to stand on.
We see examples of Calvinists (or whatever you may call yourself) redefining terms in the Bible to suit their philosophy and vain deceit, but it never holds up against the truth of the word of God. Go water your TULIP. It appears to be dying :rip: