Open Letter to Dr. James Dobson

PKevman

PKevman

New member
nursemaria said:
Dear Steve from mttu.com and others who are upset about open letter:

Thanks for all the work you have done on behalf of the unborn. I do sidewalk counseling and helped with this ad. I am a post-abortive, single/teen Mom who realizes firsthand how devastating abortion is.

Unfortunately, I am not seeing any substance to the complaints regarding the fact that CRTL rebuked Dobson. This is primarily because the entire movement has become dependent on man's wisdom, also known as moral relativism and legal positivism. Dobson and other ministries who do make a lot of money from abortion related causes as well as other moral concerns have a lot to lose. NRTL gets at least $500,000 annually from the Republican party and is severely corrupted by it. They have openly supported a pro-abort candidate over the pro-life candidate. Ultimately, their pride is at stake.

We, those who signed the letter, hoped that Dobson would see his moral relativism. But he refuses. There are many pro-lifers who refuse, he is not the only one. Why is Dobson considered to be infallible? Is he Christ? Is he greater than King David or Peter and cannot be rebuked? By the way both of those Biblical men were rebuked. There is emoting over how Dobson has done so much. More the reason to get him depending on Biblical truth not a room full of advisors. How would our movement be impacted if Dobson came out and repented and said I am taking up my pledge again to not compromise? The momentum would be unstoppable! When criticism is leveled about the letter it is just about how we shouldn't pick on poor Dobson. He is a grown man and can handle himself.

There was a small ban in the ruling but, if an abortionist (people who murder children are known to be liars because once you start killing every immoral thing is up for grabs) has an overdilated woman and the baby comes out almost all the way, he can still do a textbook PBA. Or he can keep doing PBA and say that the baby just slipped out, oops!! Who will report them? Their well paid staff? Warren Hern, late term abortionist in Boulder said years ago this wouldn't stop one scheduled abortion at his clinic. How about Tiller? Did he close his doors yet? Why did we spend 15 years and a lot of money to attempt to outlaw this? How many pro-lifers think well something has been accomplisted and now they can rest? The ruling is a regulatory function, it states that the baby can pulled out to his navel and then his legs can be hacked off. If you read the ruling you should cry, become nauseous and feel physical pain. I did.

Please discuss what is actually wrong with the content of letter. Look how many ministries continue to fundraise off of this gruesome decision and did in fact celebrate it.

There is other legislation that shows how much relativism, not God's truth is part of the pro-life movement. Fetal pain act, sure it is great to tell an abortion minded Mom that the baby feels pain but, don't offer the solution of pain medication. How about Infant Born Alive? It just makes abortionists make sure they are good and dead so they won't be born alive. Who will enforce this so called ban to make sure the baby does not slip out all the way? Troy Newman with OR West cannot even get the Kansas law enforced against late term abortions.

We must follow God's commands in this battle. If we truly believe in God and what He can do, we follow His commands and He will fight for us. We should not decide what is politically expedient and use that as our guide.

As far as money goes, CRTL has very little. Everyone on the board is a volunteer.

Those of us on the front lines try to save as many as we can. We can compare this to the time Christians were living in Nazi Germany and hid Jews. Would we have said we can make some laws to slow Jew killing like kill Jews everyday but, Sunday? Of course not! So should we should make legislation that ends with "and then you can kill the baby?" If we continue to legislate marginal, small, insignificant laws we will continue with those results.

Should we celebrate this ruling and discuss how is it a stepping stone? It is brutally wicked and disgusting. Children will die a more torturous death then when PBA was being used. It also now goes back into the darkness of the womb. I am a medical profession and cannot stand to read or hear the details.

Thank you for reading my post.
Click to expand...

WELCOME to TOL Nursemaria! What an outstanding post! :up:
 
S

Steve Wetzel

New member
nursemaria said:
Dear Steve from mttu.com and others who are upset about open letter:

Thanks for all the work you have done on behalf of the unborn. I do sidewalk counseling and helped with this ad. I am a post-abortive, single/teen Mom who realizes firsthand how devastating abortion is.

Unfortunately, I am not seeing any substance to the complaints regarding the fact that CRTL rebuked Dobson. This is primarily because the entire movement has become dependent on man's wisdom, also known as moral relativism and legal positivism. Dobson and other ministries who do make a lot of money from abortion related causes as well as other moral concerns have a lot to lose. NRTL gets at least $500,000 annually from the Republican party and is severely corrupted by it. They have openly supported a pro-abort candidate over the pro-life candidate. Ultimately, their pride is at stake.

We, those who signed the letter, hoped that Dobson would see his moral relativism. But he refuses. There are many pro-lifers who refuse, he is not the only one. Why is Dobson considered to be infallible? Is he Christ? Is he greater than King David or Peter and cannot be rebuked? By the way both of those Biblical men were rebuked. There is emoting over how Dobson has done so much. More the reason to get him depending on Biblical truth not a room full of advisors. How would our movement be impacted if Dobson came out and repented and said I am taking up my pledge again to not compromise? The momentum would be unstoppable! When criticism is leveled about the letter it is just about how we shouldn't pick on poor Dobson. He is a grown man and can handle himself.

There was a small ban in the ruling but, if an abortionist (people who murder children are known to be liars because once you start killing every immoral thing is up for grabs) has an overdilated woman and the baby comes out almost all the way, he can still do a textbook PBA. Or he can keep doing PBA and say that the baby just slipped out, oops!! Who will report them? Their well paid staff? Warren Hern, late term abortionist in Boulder said years ago this wouldn't stop one scheduled abortion at his clinic. How about Tiller? Did he close his doors yet? Why did we spend 15 years and a lot of money to attempt to outlaw this? How many pro-lifers think well something has been accomplisted and now they can rest? The ruling is a regulatory function, it states that the baby can pulled out to his navel and then his legs can be hacked off. If you read the ruling you should cry, become nauseous and feel physical pain. I did.

Please discuss what is actually wrong with the content of letter. Look how many ministries continue to fundraise off of this gruesome decision and did in fact celebrate it.

There is other legislation that shows how much relativism, not God's truth is part of the pro-life movement. Fetal pain act, sure it is great to tell an abortion minded Mom that the baby feels pain but, don't offer the solution of pain medication. How about Infant Born Alive? It just makes abortionists make sure they are good and dead so they won't be born alive. Who will enforce this so called ban to make sure the baby does not slip out all the way? Troy Newman with OR West cannot even get the Kansas law enforced against late term abortions.

We must follow God's commands in this battle. If we truly believe in God and what He can do, we follow His commands and He will fight for us. We should not decide what is politically expedient and use that as our guide.

As far as money goes, CRTL has very little. Everyone on the board is a volunteer.

Those of us on the front lines try to save as many as we can. We can compare this to the time Christians were living in Nazi Germany and hid Jews. Would we have said we can make some laws to slow Jew killing like kill Jews everyday but, Sunday? Of course not! So should we should make legislation that ends with "and then you can kill the baby?" If we continue to legislate marginal, small, insignificant laws we will continue with those results.

Should we celebrate this ruling and discuss how is it a stepping stone? It is brutally wicked and disgusting. Children will die a more torturous death then when PBA was being used. It also now goes back into the darkness of the womb. I am a medical profession and cannot stand to read or hear the details.

Thank you for reading my post.
Click to expand...

I appreciate what you wrote, but you contradict yourself. On one hand you say Dobson is just a man who is not infallible. On the other you say if Dobson were to take your pledge the momentum would be unstoppable.

Can I tell you how much influence Dobson would have if he signed your pledge?

Zero, nada, zilch!

The ending of child sacrifice is not about one man, never has been. It is about the state of the American church, and our selfish "Bless me God," multiply my tithe - prayers. Always has been, always will be.

The NRTL has long ago compromised to the point of being ineffective. Worse, the NRTL now exists only to serve itself. Dobson's ministry may get there - I am not a defender of Dobson, but understand the human condition, and could see it going there.

Again, point the finger back to the American church of non-sacrifice. That includes you and me - and all those who profess faith Christ, but just won't live it.

Have you done enough to stop the slaughter of unborn babies? I know I have not. Would Dobson's signing of a "pledge" mean he has? I think not.

Steve
mttu.com
 
S

Steve Wetzel

New member
>>Please discuss what is actually wrong with the content of letter. Look how many ministries continue to fundraise off of this gruesome decision<<

How many do? Speak to me of the ministries that *fundraise* because of this decision. Maybe I am out of the "fundraising" loop. Please enlighten me, but don't include NRTL - as that is a given.

Thank you.

Steve
mttu.com
 
N

nursemaria

New member
Steve Wetzel said:
>>Please discuss what is actually wrong with the content of letter. Look how many ministries continue to fundraise off of this gruesome decision<<

How many do? Speak to me of the ministries that *fundraise* because of this decision. Maybe I am out of the "fundraising" loop. Please enlighten me, but don't include NRTL - as that is a given.

Thank you.

Steve
mttu.com
Click to expand...


Steve,

I will answer both posts you left. Currently, ACLJ and OR West. Jay said it on air that see if we continue to give we will get more victories like this and Troy puts out a fundraising letter that says late term abortions are outlawed and please give so they can get law enforcement in the clinics to enforce this so called ban. Secondly, Dobson is hugely influential in the Christian community look at some of the previous posts. It is not a matter of him signing a pledge but, encouraging involvement in pro-life activist's efforts and helping Christians take a Biblical stance against this evil, horrific act. How many times has Dobson got millions of Christians to call a congressman/woman when he called them to action? Too many to count. Christians needs to have a Biblical worldview in all they do so God's Word will be their moral anchor and compass.

I am just pointing out that he is not infallible, just like me and so he is not above reproach.

You still need to address any of the open letter's content. What exactly is wrong with the content? Have you read the ruling?

Have a Blessed Day! I am off to church.
 
S

Steve Wetzel

New member
nursemaria said:
Steve,

I will answer both posts you left. Currently, ACLJ and OR West. Jay said it on air that see if we continue to give we will get more victories like this and Troy puts out a fundraising letter that says late term abortions are outlawed and please give so they can get law enforcement in the clinics to enforce this so called ban. Secondly, Dobson is hugely influential in the Christian community look at some of the previous posts. It is not a matter of him signing a pledge but, encouraging involvement in pro-life activist's efforts and helping Christians take a Biblical stance against this evil, horrific act. How many times has Dobson got millions of Christians to call a congressman/woman when he called them to action? Too many to count. Christians needs to have a Biblical worldview in all they do so God's Word will be their moral anchor and compass.

I am just pointing out that he is not infallible, just like me and so he is not above reproach.

You still need to address any of the open letter's content. What exactly is wrong with the content? Have you read the ruling?

Have a Blessed Day! I am off to church.
Click to expand...

Ugh ... I am weary of the politics, open letters, pledges and all that nonsense.

OK - let's just say this court ruling was evil. Is that going to change how you do prolife work? Let's say it was a good ruling. Is that going to change how you do prolife work?

Let's ponder if they had actually overturned Roe v. Wade. It then goes back to the states. Would this change how you do prolife work?

What if abortion was banned altogether in the US? There is still a world to reach.

None of the above would change how I do prolife work. Enough of the pledges already. Why do I need to sign a pledge to do that which Christ has already called me to do???

I will go about the work of ending child sacrifice. You guys can go and hammer whom ever you like. Hammer me if you like - I don't care. It wouldn't change a single thing I do to end abortion.

Enjoy the politics. Me? I despise it.

Steve Wetzel
mttu.com
 
rehcjam

rehcjam

Member
Steve Wetzel said:
Ugh ... I am weary of the politics, open letters, pledges and all that nonsense.

OK - let's just say this court ruling was evil. Is that going to change how you do prolife work? Let's say it was a good ruling. Is that going to change how you do prolife work?

Let's ponder if they had actually overturned Roe v. Wade. It then goes back to the states. Would this change how you do prolife work?

What if abortion was banned altogether in the US? There is still a world to reach.

None of the above would change how I do prolife work. Enough of the pledges already. Why do I need to sign a pledge to do that which Christ has already called me to do???

I will go about the work of ending child sacrifice. You guys can go and hammer whom ever you like. Hammer me if you like - I don't care. It wouldn't change a single thing I do to end abortion.

Enjoy the politics. Me? I despise it.

Steve Wetzel
mttu.com
Click to expand...

That's funny. Your response sounds very similar to the response from those who are apathetic to abortion. Good cop out. :thumb:
 
rehcjam

rehcjam

Member
Steve Wetzel said:
Errr ... one should do his homework before making a fool of himself Slappy.

http://mttu.com/main.htm

http://mttu.com/abort-pics/index.html

http://mttu.com/Slain-1.htm

http://mttu.com/memorial/index.html

Apology accepted.
Click to expand...

Dude, it is still a cop out.

That is the exact same thing that I hear ad nauseam from so called Pro-Lifers. Who cares about politics, what about right and wrong? Not to mention the fact that there is almost nothing that is not political.
 
S

Steve Wetzel

New member
rehcjam said:
Dude, it is still a cop out.

That is the exact same thing that I hear ad nauseam from so called Pro-Lifers. Who cares about politics, what about right and wrong? Not to mention the fact that there is almost nothing that is not political.
Click to expand...

Tell me - what is your claim to fame that makes you the final judge of who is "prolife" enough???

You could be a keyboard commando for all I know. Do you even have a name besides "rehcjam?"

I understand that politics is a necessary evil, it is the endless banter I weary of. It is the judgments of those claim others are not prolife enough, while live in the shadows thenselves.

Brass tacks - what is *YOUR* claim to fame that makes your the arbitor of who is prolife enough???

You know who I am. Who are YOU???

Steve Wetzel
mttu.com
 
rehcjam

rehcjam

Member
Steve Wetzel said:
Tell me - what is your claim to fame that makes you the final judge of who is "prolife" enough???

You could be a keyboard commando for all I know. Do you even have a name besides "rehcjam?"

I understand that politics is a necessary evil, it is the endless banter I weary of. It is the judgments of those claim others are not prolife enough, while live in the shadows thenselves.

Brass tacks - what is *YOUR* claim to fame that makes your the arbitor of who is prolife enough???

You know who I am. Who are YOU???

Steve Wetzel
mttu.com
Click to expand...

I'm Batman.

Com'on man, give me a break.

Do you not understand at all what I am talking about. I hate politics too.

Do I have to be famous to know the difference between right and wrong or to not be naive when a politician says that he is Pro-Life but only privately?

btw
I don't live in the shadows and I love your site.
 
A

Adam

New member
Hall of Fame
Steve, you make this claim to rehcjam.
Steve Wetzel said:
Brass tacks - what is *YOUR* claim to fame that makes your the arbitor of who is prolife enough???
Click to expand...
Yet earlier, you confront me with a loaded question of whether or not I have been a good enough pro-lifer.
Steve Wetzel said:
Pastor - let's take these same Jews you speak of ... tell me how much **you** have personally suffered to save them! How much have you been inconvinced to save them????

There is theological, and then there is the place the rubber meets the road. Tell me of YOUR road Pastor please.
Click to expand...
So, based on that statement, are you the same arbiter that you accuse rehcjam of? Now that I know your question was loaded, I won't answer it. I don't need to. I understand your motivation.
 
S

Steve Wetzel

New member
Adambassador said:
Steve, you make this claim to rehcjam.Yet earlier, you confront me with a loaded question of whether or not I have been a good enough pro-lifer.So, based on that statement, are you the same arbiter that you accuse rehcjam of? Now that I know your question was loaded, I won't answer it. I don't need to. I understand your motivation.
Click to expand...

Let's get real Adam. You did not reply because you have not suffered or been inconvienced for the unborn.

Like most of the yahoos on this forum, they discuss theology without ever having had to personally pay a price for their beliefs. It is theology without the conviction to see it lived out in the rotten here and now.

You wanna compare conviction lived out? Let's do it, else sit back and wait for another opportune moment to chime in again. Either way is fine with me.

Are my words too harsh? Change threads. I am a former Marine and I don't mince words.

Steve
mttu.com
 
A

Adam

New member
Hall of Fame
Steve, this has nothing to do with the Marines and everything to do with you. You have no knowledge of me or what I do, yet you prejudge me with your self-righteousness.

I have absolutely no desire to share with you what I have done for the unborn because you would find a way to make it look less beneficial than what you've done. Plus, I did it for them and for God, not you. There are people here that know me, and if they want to share what I've done, then that's fine, but you won't hear it from me.

Adam
 
Z

zoot

BANNED
Banned
Seriously, what do you expect from the heavy hitters in Christian politics? He is taking what he can get. He knows that abortion will be legal for the forseeable future, so he claims credit for this "victory". Meanwhile, rational people know that this ruling will not stop one person from having a an abortion. Its symbolism over substance.
 
Z

zoot

BANNED
Banned
Adambassador said:
Steve, this has nothing to do with the Marines and everything to do with you. You have no knowledge of me or what I do, yet you prejudge me with your self-righteousness.

I have absolutely no desire to share with you what I have done for the unborn because you would find a way to make it look less beneficial than what you've done. Plus, I did it for them and for God, not you. There are people here that know me, and if they want to share what I've done, then that's fine, but you won't hear it from me.

Adam
Click to expand...

I personally saw Adambassador leap over a tall building and use his laser beam eys to melt the abortion utensils. (But you won't hear that from him..)
 
Z

zoot

BANNED
Banned
CRASH said:
Hi Steve,
Welcome to TOL.
Do you and your group condemn all abortion related violence?
Click to expand...

That is like saying, do you and your group condemn all violence related to stopping the World War II holocaust. They are ethically the same.
 
Delmar

Delmar

Patron Saint of SMACK
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
zoot said:
That is like saying, do you and your group condemn all violence related to stopping the World War II holocaust. They are ethically the same.
Click to expand...
I guess if the government decided to bomb abortion clinics it would be OK, but wouldn't it just be easier to shut them down?
 
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