I tire of seeing people here say they can and do obey all of God's commands and the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Only Jesus lived a life that is perfect. Stop fooling yourselves by relying on your own power to obey.
Only Jesus Is Perfect
- Thread starter patrick jane
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beameup
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For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
There is the overlooked Command from the Lord Jesus: Walk in the Holy Spirit. See Romans 8 & Galatians 5 :wave:
There is the overlooked Command from the Lord Jesus: Walk in the Holy Spirit. See Romans 8 & Galatians 5 :wave:
WonderfulLordJesus
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1 John 1
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Jesus lived a perfect life in his own flesh body and he can do the same in our flesh body.
Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection... (Hebrews 6:1)
Paul also said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.
Well, he did kill a fig tree for not producing figs "out of season". Mark 11:13
So, I suppose the old adage still holds: "Nobody's perfect.".
WonderfulLordJesus
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You can't pit scripture against scripture, take the verse you cite as a doctrine what is corruptible flesh, flesh that is weak and cannot glory before God, corruption that must put on incorruptibly, as a doctrine we can be perfect, at all, while in the flesh. You cannot be in the flesh and be perfect, period. I also wonder about people who don't realize their imperfections, daily, where their concept of holy God and humility have vanished to, the big if that some ever even repented, had such Christian humility and awareness of inadequacy of self, ever, in the first place.
You can tell a group of Olympic athletes on your team to all move on to victory, knowing full well it's not possible for all to win a medal, if any. Likewise, urging people to seek the loftiest goal and grow in the faith is not a doctrine of perfection in the flesh, when much scripture, just read Romans 7, says something very different. A sophomoric mind ought to be able to see that, if we could attain perfection, we'd not even need the Lord's atonement and grace, is an insult and effrontery to the necessity of the blood of the Lord Jesus, to satisfy the requirements of holiness, perfection, that is of God, alone.
Sinless perfection in human flesh is a myth, and an old teaching much preached against, for its attempt to make people believe the Christian faith is futile, if their works aren't up to snuff, something that could cause many to not even seek God, seeing the futility of it, were they to believe this evil doctrine. It is also the root of most errors to lift scripture out of context, or create doctrines because some word is used in a figure of speech, way off the charts of a failure of good and accepted Bible hermeneutics any scholar will verify, even regardless whether all agree. Big mistake, and sinless perfection a big lie, big error.
Was righteous Abel righteous?
Prizebeatz1
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Do you suppose that is why Paul said: "But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." (Romans 8:9)
opcorn:
I think Jesus is perfect in character and when he appears we will be like him. Not many believe that.
Prizebeatz1
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Only Jesus Is Perfect
I used to think the same. Striving to reach that ideal often includes a subtle rejection of who we are right now. Too often we reach for the future and concentrate on not repeating mistakes from the past and we miss the timeless present moment where God dwells. Not saying it's bad to want to be like Jesus but it can do considerable damage with lasting negative consequences if we're not carefully aware of the enemy's traps.
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I used to think the same. Striving to reach that ideal often includes a subtle rejection of who we are right now. Too often we reach for the future and concentrate on not repeating mistakes from the past and we miss the timeless present moment where God dwells. Not saying it's bad to want to be like Jesus but it can do considerable damage with lasting negative consequences if we're not carefully aware of the enemy's traps.
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njspolk
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Really well said. I just don't see where you disagree with jamie. Also, I really like your post "I think the perfection of Jesus points to our own internal perfect divinity." A big YES from me
njspolk
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John Wesley believed that perfection was Scripturally defensible. What are your main objections to Christ's power to perfect us in this life, continuing onto the next?
Prizebeatz1
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I don't disagree with Jamie. I'm just saying Jesus' perfection can also be seen as a reflection of our own divine self.
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njspolk
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Oh, for sure
WonderfulLordJesus
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Do you suppose that is why Paul said: "But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." (Romans 8:9)
There is a vast distinction between being "in the Spirit" and saying we "are Spirit."
Paul is making a distinction between people who are not born again, without the Spirit of Christ dwelling in them, and those born again, who have the Spirit of Christ dwelling in them. Read the passage in context. He is speaking "in the flesh" is the unbeliever, "in the Spirit" the believer. Christ taught flesh is flesh, and spirit is spirit, not born of the Spirit unregenerate, an unbeliever.
There's no doctrine of flesh ever being incorruptible, we all flesh and corruptible, until glorified, 1 Corinthians 15:53-54. The flesh is corruption by definition, and the detailed teaching of Romans 7 teaches the flesh cannot be perfect and is unacceptable to God, 1 Corinthians 1:29. Some make the point the Holy Spirit is perfect, dwelling in us, and God is perfect, this true. But a newly born again believer has the Spirit, yet is subject to disciple of the Lord, progressive sanctification, 1 John 1 teaching, to believers, that a liar says he has no sin. So, having the Spirit is not perfection, with respect to one who is still clothed in the flesh, obviously, or a Christian would, in fact, never sin again, after being born again.
Also, the Lord Jesus taught of sins of thought, like lust or hate, being adultery and murder: this is a radical expansion of the ten commandments. The bar of perfection is the holiness of God, purity of thoughts and intents of the heart, perfection the glory of God, imperfection falling short of His glory in any way. Do you make perfect use of your time, for God's will? Do you turn your eyes away from all evil, or will you watch evil drama as entertainment? Willing to listen to smutty music sometimes? Do you react to everybody, always in love? Do you use all your resources for the glory of God, or do you treat yourself to things you don't really need, while a child is starving somewhere, for lack of less than a dollar a day? Are you always of all the fruits of the Spirit in conduct and temperament, all your waking hours, because anything less or opposing is not of God, therefore imperfect?
Examples could go on and on. I believe we all are more flesh, relative to God we dirty, than we care to recognize. We are all imperfect, until we meet the Lord in the air or die, in either case, shedding the body of corruption required, to be in the presence of God. Consider this: your flesh is still under a death penalty, deteriorating as we speak. That should pretty much say it all.
WonderfulLordJesus
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Well I can agree with you completely on that, the Bible clear we will be like Him in glory, and that is the putting on of the incorruptible, immortal body, and praise Jesus' gift of such great love and mercy! Also, we have eternal life already by His Spirit in us, can't discount that we do have something perfect in us, like a down payment, earnest, on the perfection we will someday have, in His presence, in glory.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
2 Corinthians 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Ephesians 1:13 KJV - Ephesians 1:14 KJV -
WonderfulLordJesus
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Patrick, viewing your avatar, it's refreshing you're, obviously, an honest man, no pretense of perfection there! :hammer:
(That emoticon reminds me of somebody who asked the guy, "Why do you keep hitting yourself on the head with that hammer?!" The guy replies, "Because it feels so good when I stop.")