Charming snakes again?
ECT Only a D'ist would poo-poo Holford's victory
- Thread starter Interplanner
- Start date
Charming snakes again?
Interplanner
Well-known member
Let's say Dr. Craig debates Sam Harris and wins handily. But let's say the thing that really tipped Harris was that Jews returned to Israel. I'd be glad for Harris to step away from atheism and toward the Gospel, but its really only toward Judaism or theism.
But these MAD guys here, they are hopping mad that Holford won against Payne because it validates what Christ says about the DofJ.
But these MAD guys here, they are hopping mad that Holford won against Payne because it validates what Christ says about the DofJ.
Interplanner
Well-known member
See there it is right there: a guy makes a huge victory for the Gospel in 19th century England, against skepticism AND YOU DON'T CARE!!! Praytel: why are you even here?
musterion
Well-known member
You're not fooling anyone. Like Tet and his pointless Darby bombings, you desperately keep making this about an irrelevant, nearly 200 year old debate instead of what matters: Josephus refutes preterism according to the very prediction of Christ you wrongly believe Josephus proved came to pass in 70.
http://biblehub.com/greek/1474.htm
Your entire interpretive system has been nuked by your own #1 source. Accept it, because if you persist in this nonsense you'll be marked as a repetitive troll, like Meshak.
http://biblehub.com/greek/1474.htm
Your entire interpretive system has been nuked by your own #1 source. Accept it, because if you persist in this nonsense you'll be marked as a repetitive troll, like Meshak.
whitestone
Well-known member
lol,yep,,,Luke 19:38-44 KJV,,,
They didn't like it that his disciples called him "king,the one coming". Now he said, until they said that same thing(that Christ disciples were saying),the one coming,the king,they wont see him again.
But then there's the Josephus problem(not the math problem,lol),,the one where those Jews did not buy and sell with Romes money(printed their own),and refused to bow down to Caesar and fulfill rev,13.
It just all falls apart from there,Josephus wars,Jewish revolt,ect. all prove that the things written in the scriptures(about the mark of the beast) were not fulfilled in ad70(Josephus proves it),lol. The writings of Josephus are the most destructive documents in regards to preterism,lol.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Power forward for the Atlanta Hawks?
Interplanner is already marked in my book
Interplanner
Well-known member
Josephus didn't prove it. The event did. Josephus recorded many things about it. This is objective reality. When you go through the list in Mt24A, so much of it is there, and so much of Dan 9 is there, that it is a done deal. After all, it had to be done within the period Daniel was referring to.
All you have to do is understand Lk 23 about the babies that were nursing at the time of the crucifixion. By the time they would be adults, they would suffer the horrors of the event and, as you can see, calling out to the mountains 'Fall on us.' etc--the same imagery as in the Rev. It is all quite plain what is going on.
D'ism is a cult and a fraud and needs to be 'marked.'
Besides, why would you have a problem with an evangelist who had a victory in England that saved it one generation from destructive skepticism. I think you should be banned from the forum.
andyc
New member
Grow up!
I poo poo Holford
Interplanner
Well-known member
So you would rather have a narrow eschatology view than acknowledge a real victory in the real arena of church history?
Would you do that to Dr. Craig if he 'won' a debate against Sam Harris, even if Craig had other theology different from you?
Nope.
I am on the side that clearly understands say, from Romans 1 thru 3, or say, from Romans 10, or 1 Corinthians 1 thru 3, that the lost and Higher Critic simply do NOT take God at His Word; that they walk by sight.
And only when it is convenient.
The fact is that the Lord Himself - in Person - failed to prove the walk by sighters He was Who He said He was.
You and yours (the Preterists) only prove you do not understand "faith."
Thus not only your own need to look outside the Scripture for proof to yourselves that the Scripture you claim is true...is...but your equal need to point those in willful unbelief to said same outside sources.
What does Scripture say about looking to walking by sight - back when God was using that?
It declares that had been one more means - when it had been in effect - of proving man sees what he wants to.
Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
That is what man does with walk by sight signs...
Verse 18 being a reference to...
Psalms 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. 19:2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. 19:3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. 19:4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, 19:5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. 19:6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
Payne was wrong.
But so was Holford.
One points man to the Word.
It does not point one to the walk by sight "evidences" the LORD had once used as a means of proving man's willfulness through that back then.
Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
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Right Divider
Body part
In the '70's?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
I thought you were thinking of that all time great St. Louis/Atlanta Hawk, Zelmo "The Big Z" Beaty.
I'm thinking to name my first adopted baby, Zelmo. And when I call him/her, I just need to say, "Hey Z!"
:chuckle:Holford spelled backwards is Drofloh.
Drofloh sounds like Creflo, as in Dollar.
Creflo Dollar is (was?) a mainstay of TBN.
TBN was founded by the late Paul Crouch.
Paul Crouch's pastor's last name is Hayford.
Holford.
Hayford.
Interplanner
Well-known member
This is a complete misuse of the faith vs sight contrast of 2 Cor 3-5. That material is skew/irrelevant to the question of whether a major historic event, that was put on the level of the Genesis flood, 1, took place, 2, took place as predicted, 3, took place as predicted by Christ and 4, took place as predicted by Christ for the reasons Christ gave.
Only a wordy know-nothing would put the two side by side.
Payne and Holford cannot both be right. Payne was shut up; people stopped listening. That's the deal.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Faith is not the absence of proof, Mk 2. "So that you will know that I have authority to forgive sins...I say to (the paralytic) get up and walk."