One Gospel Proven.

[achduke]

You said, "To sin is to transgress the law."

The law had NOT been given at that time.

Are you absolutely positive no oral law had not been given? How did Cain know about sin? Why did he make sacrafices? How did Noah know which animals were unclean vs clean? How did Ham's brothers know to walk backwards and avoid seeing Noah's nakedness, etc.

 

[Right Divider]

Are you absolutely positive no oral law had not been given? How did Cain know about sin? Why did he make sacrafices? How did Noah know which animals were unclean vs clean? How did Ham's brothers know to walk backwards and avoid seeing Noah's nakedness, etc.

We are not told, so I would not make too many assumptions.

 

[Tambora]

Them why does Paul say not to sin

We tell everyone not to sin. EVERYONE.

By not sinning you already doing the commandments of God.

The Mosaic law. James is speaking of the Mosaic law.
Do you obey the WHOLE Mosaic law?

To sin is to break the law.

Rom 2:12 KJV For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law

Paul said do not sin. This is not the reason why we are saved but saved people to not strive to sin. In their mind they have the Spirit who leads them not to sin. They may still sin but they will feel guilt and groans from the holy spirit.

A good tree produces good fruit.

I'm going to guess that you believe all the saved are good trees. Is that accurate?

You end it by saying:

A good tree produces good fruit

But just before that, you say:

They may still sin

Is sin good fruit?

 

[Tambora]

Yes but does an atheist do good deeds on there own which is self-righteous or do they do good deeds because they believe?

According to your statement, it wouldn't matter WHY they are doing good deeds, as long as they are doing them.

Producing good works is a sign that you are saved.

Let's just be honest, good deeds are done by the saved and the unsaved.
Good deeds cannot be the criteria to determine if one is saved.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

James says faith with works.

Not for salvation. Here James tells us exactly how one is saved:

"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (Jas.1:18).​

Nothing about works there!

in fact, we read the following which makes it plain that "whosoever" believes is saved:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

 

[achduke]

The Mosaic law. James is speaking of the Mosaic law.
Do you obey the WHOLE Mosaic law?

I'm going to guess that you believe all the saved are good trees. Is that accurate?

Is sin good fruit?

How do we know James was talking about the mosaic law.

I do not follow the whole Mosaic law. That is impossible. There is not even a physical temple nor city gates for elders to judge? Where are the elders anyway? They are not in my city.

Good trees are saved and produce good fruit. Sin is bad fruit but the law is about spirit. The spirit is in the mind. We are of the Spirit of God who guides us not to sin.

If we have the Holy Spirit and by he guides us. If we are led to do something by the Holy Spirit is that are own works like non-believers or is that righteousness from God?

Paul never said not to do works. Just not our own works which are of the flesh. Obedience is by the Spirit.


Luke 19:13 "So he called ten of his servants, delivered to them ten minas, and said to them, 'Do business till I come.'

Luke 19:20 "And another came, saying, 'Master, here is your mina, which I have kept put away in a handkerchief.

All the servants produced good fruit except one.

What was said to the servant who did not produce good fruit?

 

[popsthebuilder]

To be saved you have to really believe and follow the teachings of Christ to the best of your ability. Having knowledge of the right path through Christ, and not acting accordingly is damning according to scripture.
Thanks you.

 

[Daniel1611]

To be saved you have to really believe and follow the teachings of Christ to the best of your ability. Having knowledge of the right path through Christ, and not acting accordingly is damning according to scripture.
Thanks you.

So you have to work your way to heaven? THAT is unbiblical. Many will say "have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name cast out Devils? And in thy name DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?"

 

[popsthebuilder]

No, you don't have to work your way to heaven. Salvation is through Faith. But to know the path laid out before us by God through Christ, and act as if you don't i.e. sinning oft as if you haven't been shown the way, is not following the teachings of Christ. To be hateful, and divided as if it is the intentions of God to keep us separate is wrong. It says in scripture that we are to be one in our faith. Thank you.

 

[popsthebuilder]

A bad tree will produce bad fruit. If church was a tree we would water it and nurture it in order for it to grow fruitful and bear good fruit. If we prune the tree every direction that it naturally grows it Will never have a chance to produce any fruit, for we cut it back before it even blooms, let alone waiting for harvest. Thank you.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

No, you don't have to work your way to heaven. Salvation is through Faith. But to know the path laid out before us by God through Christ, and act as if you don't i.e. sinning oft as if you haven't been shown the way, is not following the teachings of Christ. To be hateful, and divided as if it is the intentions of God to keep us separate is wrong. It says in scripture that we are to be one in our faith. Thank you.

Exactly right!

 

[Interplanner]

It will help enormously to say what the faith is in. Faith is only as good as what it is in. It is in what Christ accomplished in the Gospel. You may have a number of responses to that, but they don't matter. God wants to know if you think only the work of Christ saves. To say so and live from that is faith.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

One of the "chief droids" of TOL, and another droid, weighs in, spams what she heard others say, for years, demonstrating that she/most, are clueless as to the meaning of the term "gospel," and thus asserts that "There is only one piece of good news throughout the Bible," and thus asserts that Judas was saved, a saint, as he preached the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV:

Judas:"Hey everyone! The Master is going to die for our sins, be buried, and rise again!!!! Believe this good news to be saved!!! I did, and I preach it!!!!"

Satanic-made up.

The Lord Jesus Christ, the 12, never taught/preached the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, at least prior to the death/burial/resurrection, i.e., "I/Christ will die for your/our sins...be buried....raised again for your/our justification...Believe this good news to be saved."

Peter attempted to prevent the Master's death twice, the very death that would reconcile him, and the death/burial/resurrection was hid from the 12, a time in which they were preaching the good news/gospel of the kingdom. They did not initially believe that the Master had risen, even after they were told that He had. And yet, for almost 3 years, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the 12, including Judas(Luke 9:6 KJV), did preach "the gospel of the kingdom." Thus, the good news/gospel of the kingdom, the good news about the coming kingdom of heaven upon the earth, "the days of heaven upon the earth"(survey Deuteronomy 11:21 KJV),was devoid of the good news of the death/burial/resurrection, the 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV good news-they are not the same good news. A 6 year old can see this, but most members of the body of Christ, because they don't survey, study the details of the book, a book of details, but, instead, study/believe what others say about the book, take a space walk, and cannot see it.

One "gospel," good news? Made up. Satanic.

The need for the sinless one to shed His blood for the forgiveness of the sins of many is known throughout the Bible since Adam sinned and God restored Him to fellowship with Him until the ultimate restoration of all of Adams being in the resurrection with all the saints since.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Paul's doctrine clearly says one is saved by faith without works.
James' doctrine clearly says faith alone (without works) cannot save.
If it has always been that faith alone saves, then James is a heretic.

James 2 KJV
(14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
(15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
(16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
(17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.​

Neither Paul nor James are speaking against Christ.
But they are teaching a different doctrine of contingency for salvation.
One is contingent on faith with works.
The other is contingent on faith without works.

Different doctrines of salvation. Different gospels of salvation.

If you choose the doctrine/gospel of James, then you are obligated to keep the WHOLE law. Because if you are under the law, then disobeying any teeny tiny bit of it will pronounce you guilty of the WHOLE law. And by 'law', I mean the law given to the Israelites through Moses.
For that is the 'works' in which James is referring to - the Mosaic law.

There is nothing different in the gospels of Paul or of James.

Paul speaks of the works required to procure salvation which Christ did, and James speaks of works of the one who has received salvation through Christs works.

The book of James throws light upon the dark works of the unsanctified believer which such persons like to avoid reading and allowing the Holy Spirit to convict them of their ongoing sinning.

Jas 1:20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Jas 3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
Jas 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
Jas 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
Jas 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
Jas 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
Jas 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

LA

 

[Interplanner]

Tambora,
All james is really saying is that faith can't be mental, dead. That's a corpse without a spirit.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

There is only one gospel throughout the Bible.

Paul preached to both Jew and Gentile.

Works of faith are necessary for salvation.

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heave having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,



Act 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
Act 26:17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
Act 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Act 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

LA

Response of Saul to Paul to this post--

August 7th, 2015 08:15 AM SaulToPaul Perverter of grace

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Response of Saul to Paul to this post--

August 7th, 2015 08:15 AM SaulToPaul Perverter of grace

LA Lost:

"Works of faith are necessary for salvation."

STP:

How many?

 

[john w]

The need for the sinless one to shed His blood for the forgiveness of the sins of many is known throughout the Bible since Adam sinned and God restored Him to fellowship with Him until the ultimate restoration of all of Adams being in the resurrection with all the saints since.

LA

Quite irrelevant to your "just one gospel/piece of good news" satanic "argument," Christ rejector.


The Lord Jesus Christ, the 12, never taught/preached the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, at least prior to the death/burial/resurrection, i.e., "I/Christ will die for your/our sins...be buried....raised again for your/our justification...Believe this good news to be saved."


Not one verse, in Mt.-John, at least prior to the dbr, says that they did, and demon LALaw can't produce that verse, after being asked for over 3 years.

.
Peter attempted to prevent the Master's death twice, the very death that would reconcile him, and the death/burial/resurrection was hid from the 12, a time in which they were preaching the good news/gospel of the kingdom. They did not initially believe that the Master had risen, even after they were told that He had. And yet, for almost 3 years, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the 12, including Judas(Luke 9:6 KJV), did preach "the gospel of the kingdom." Thus, the good news/gospel of the kingdom, the good news about the coming kingdom of heaven upon the earth, "the days of heaven upon the earth"(survey Deuteronomy 11:21 KJV),was devoid of the good news of the death/burial/resurrection, the 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV good news-they are not the same good news. A 6 year old can see this, but most members of the body of Christ, because they don't survey, study the details of the book, a book of details, but, instead, study/believe what others say about the book, take a space walk, and cannot see it.

One "gospel," good news? Made up. Satanic.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Not one verse, in Mt.-John, at least prior to the dbr, says that they did, and demon LALaw can't produce that verse, after being asked for over 3 years.

.

You know, saint john, perhaps the gospel was still "developing".

 

[achduke]

Quite irrelevant to your "just one gospel/piece of good news" satanic "argument," Christ rejector.


The Lord Jesus Christ, the 12, never taught/preached the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, at least prior to the death/burial/resurrection, i.e., "I/Christ will die for your/our sins...be buried....raised again for your/our justification...Believe this good news to be saved."


Not one verse, in Mt.-John, at least prior to the dbr, says that they did, and demon LALaw can't produce that verse, after being asked for over 3 years.

.
Peter attempted to prevent the Master's death twice, the very death that would reconcile him, and the death/burial/resurrection was hid from the 12, a time in which they were preaching the good news/gospel of the kingdom. They did not initially believe that the Master had risen, even after they were told that He had. And yet, for almost 3 years, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the 12, including Judas(Luke 9:6 KJV), did preach "the gospel of the kingdom." Thus, the good news/gospel of the kingdom, the good news about the coming kingdom of heaven upon the earth, "the days of heaven upon the earth"(survey Deuteronomy 11:21 KJV),was devoid of the good news of the death/burial/resurrection, the 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV good news-they are not the same good news. A 6 year old can see this, but most members of the body of Christ, because they don't survey, study the details of the book, a book of details, but, instead, study/believe what others say about the book, take a space walk, and cannot see it.

One "gospel," good news? Made up. Satanic.

Matthew 16:21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

Matthew 1:21 "And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins."

Matthew 26:28 "For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.