I change not pretty much says He doesn’t change.
On the omniscience of God
- Thread starter JudgeRightly
- Start date
Your verse does NOT say God the Father changes. Where is God the Father speaking from there is your answer ?
Except that God doesn't just say "I change not." He says it in the context of His righteous character and His commitment to His promises.
That should tell you something.
Speaking is inherently a change.
First God wasn't speaking, then He spoke, then He ceased speaking.
He said, in order, "This," then "is," then "My," then "beloved," then "Son," then "in," then...
Do I need to go on?
Speaking is a change.
What does His location have to do with anything?
Yes, that's God the Father speaking. Changing.
More question begging.
Speaking is inherently a change.
You literally just got done quoting it.
glorydaz
Well-known member
This discussion reminds me of the verse in Hebrews.
Heb. 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Right Divider
Body part
Again, this is not describing "absolutely no changes ever".
The Word was made flesh. That's a type of change.
glorydaz
Well-known member
I think it's speaking of the intrinsic essence of God.
glorydaz
Well-known member
I wonder if we can really comprehend our Great God and Saviour the Lord Jesus Christ.
John 14:
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
John 14:
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
The source is irrelevant. I wasn't stating an opinion.
You come here and intentional ignore every argument made against your position and then when you finally succeed in getting someone to write your off as the waste of time that you are, you desire to stand with your shoulders back and proclaim that you've defended something.
Perhaps you're lying to both yourself and all of us but you are a liar by any definition.
Keep pounding your chest , but like I I said I always consider the source, and you aren’t much of a source.
The source is irrelevant. I wasn't stating an opinion.
You come here and intentional ignore every argument made against your position and then when you finally succeed in getting someone to write your off as the waste of time that you are, you desire to stand with your shoulders back and proclaim that you've defended something.
Perhaps you're lying to both yourself and all of us but you are a liar by any definition.
Your argument was not based on the context of the verses I posted and many times not in the context of the verses you posted. Of course the source is relevant. If the source ignores the context of scripture to me they are irrelevant.How many times have you told me bye or as you say written me off ? Your word is just about as good as your understanding of scripture.
Hypocrite!
All of our arguments so far have included the context of the scripture we've posted.
This is called a genetic fallacy. It's a fallacy for a reason.
Which is exactly why the source of something isn't relevant at all to whether something is true or not.
Thus, genetic fallacy.
If the source changes the context of scripture,as was done in Malachi 3:6,they can claim victory,but they are still wrong.
No one has changed the context of scripture, LN. You're just ignoring it completely.
God saying “I change not”means He changes to fit opinions and agendas however individuals want to interpret it?I don’t believe that is what He meant.
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Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
If Him saying "I change not" is inherently change, then "I change not" is automatically ipso facto a lie.
So does God lie, or does God not change. It can't be both.
Derf
Well-known member
It’s only a lie if “change” is defined in such an absolute way that it applies to everything about God—that’s the whole point, so I’m glad you picked up on it. Once we see that it can’t apply to “everything” about God, it forces us to seek the limits of the scope of the passage, which is in regard to God’s promise to Israel not to consume them.
And it’s not a doctrinal statement about immutability, as you’ve pointed out so clearly.
No.
God saying "I change not" is not God saying "I don't change in any way whatsoever."
Stop ignoring the context of the verse.
False dichotomy.
The alternative is that God is saying that He does not change in a certain way, but that certain way does not include the change of speaking.
The CONTEXT of the verse shows us just that.
Still a false dichotomy.
The alternative is that God DOES change, but not in the way that the context is talking about, and that He does NOT change in the way that the context IS talking about.
In other words, God changes in some ways, and not in others.
https://opentheism.org/verses lists 33 different categories of verses that support the notion that God is free, which includes the fact that God does change, categories 2, 3, 4, 5, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 29, 30, 31, 32, and 33 all contain verses that directly or indirectly show God as changing.
27 is a category that contains a verse that describes men as unchanging (Psalm 55:19).