ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
I think this comes back to a popular topic here back in the day - the nature of time, the way we experience it linearly, and the possibility (probability?) that God experiences it differently.
Omniscience means fatalism.
- Thread starter Stripe
- Start date
I think this comes back to a popular topic here back in the day - the nature of time, the way we experience it linearly, and the possibility (probability?) that God experiences it differently.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Well, it can get complicated but unless there's direct involvement going on then foreknowledge of how someone is going to act etc is simply knowing the future. Say you wake up at fourteen minutes past seven in the morning and make a coffee. Okay, you're "fated" to wake up at that time and make a coffee but your decisions aren't being influenced or manipulated.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
No, I'm not. If God knows something in advance then that isn't infringing on someone's will.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
if God knows you're going to post something excruciatingly retarded later this evening, is there anything you can do to avoid it?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Which seems to be the dilemma we're discussing. How that can be....
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Not sure how it's even a dilemma. Simply knowing in advance how someone is going to act isn't manipulating them into an act by association.
glorydaz
Well-known member
An act "by association"? What does that mean?
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
I meant in association with foreknowledge. Knowing the future is just that, it's not manipulating anyone into whatever act they do.
That's nice.
Wake us up when you've got something rational to contribute.
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I can't wake up a dead person, stryper.
You can't infringe upon what doesn't exist...in such a scenario, the will remains illusory. Your actions only appear as willful ones. You're merely God's understudy playing out your destined role as prescribed.
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
Only if you're "programmed" to act out on what's already been set out in advance. Otherwise, knowing future events doesn't equate to infringement. Heck, will is limited as it is to some extent because of human make up. There's no choice in feeling hungry or thirsty when dehydrated or needing sustenance by way of but simply having foreknowledge does not equate to people having some "prescribed role" either.
How can you be sure you're not programmed as such?
This assumption here is not mere foreknowledge but rather providence.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
If God knows that, when presented with a particular choice, artie will choose A and not B, what will happen when artie is presented with the choice?
1. artie will choose A
or
2. artie will stamp his foot, insist "i will not be manipulated!" and choose B
Arthur Brain
Well-known member
To an extent all humans are programmed to a certain degree via biology and instinct but that's a bit of a sidebar. If there's a God who's programmed people and events to act out in a certain way where there's no will involved and it's actually fated to happen out of design then that's different to simply knowing in advance what's going to happen without manipulating the outcome.
I'm maintaining that it's my will to avoid indulging certain elements on here by way of, no matter how much time they may want to waste trying to get attention.
:e4e:
glorydaz
Well-known member
You mean like clairvoyance?
glorydaz
Well-known member
That's not working out well for you, is it? You'd best practice up a bit. :chuckle: