Omniscience means fatalism.

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
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If an entity is omniscient, that means it knows everything — down to the movement of every subatomic particle throughout all history.

That entity must precede every physical thing.

The entity must be the source of everything.

The entity cannot have arrived at omniscience.

The entity had no option but to create exactly as it knew would happen.

An man living in this universe would be fated at every moment of his life.

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genuineoriginal

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Omniscience and free will

Whether omniscience, particularly regarding the choices that a human will make, is compatible with free will has been debated by theologians and philosophers. The argument that divine foreknowledge is not compatible with free will is known as theological fatalism. It is argued that if humans are free to choose between alternatives, God could not know what this choice will be.

A question arises: if an omniscient entity knows everything, even about its own decisions in the future, does it therefore forbid any free will to that entity?


If an entity is omniscient, that means it knows everything — down to the movement of every subatomic particle throughout all history.

That entity must precede every physical thing.

The entity must be the source of everything.

The entity cannot have arrived at omniscience.

The entity had no option but to create exactly as it knew would happen.

An man living in this universe would be fated at every moment of his life.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Theological fatalism means that God has no free will.
 

genuineoriginal

New member

The unmoved mover
The way in which Aristotle seeks to show that the universe is a single causal system is through an examination of the notion of movement, which finds its culmination in Book XI of the Metaphysics. As noted above, motion, for Aristotle, refers to change in any of several different categories. Aristotle’s fundamental principle is that everything that is in motion is moved by something else, and he offers a number of (unconvincing) arguments to this effect. He then argues that there cannot be an infinite series of moved movers. If it is true that when A is in motion there must be some B that moves A, then if B is itself in motion there must be some C moving B, and so on. This series cannot go on forever, and so it must come to a halt in some X that is a cause of motion but does not move itself—an unmoved mover.

Since the motion it causes is everlasting, this X must itself be an eternal substance. It must lack matter, for it cannot come into existence or go out of existence by turning into anything else. It must also lack potentiality, for the mere power to cause motion would not ensure the sempiternity of motion. It must, therefore, be pure actuality (energeia). Although the revolving heavens, for Aristotle, lack the possibility of substantial change, they possess potentiality, because each heavenly body has the power to move elsewhere in its diurnal round. Since these bodies are in motion, they need a mover, and this is a motionless mover. Such a mover could not act as an efficient cause, because that would involve a change in itself



If Aristotle is right, then there can't be more than one unmoved mover.
Since God's actions are dictated by Omniscience, then the one unmoved mover would be Omniscience and not God.
 

quip

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Banned

The unmoved mover
The way in which Aristotle seeks to show that the universe is a single causal system is through an examination of the notion of movement, which finds its culmination in Book XI of the Metaphysics. As noted above, motion, for Aristotle, refers to change in any of several different categories. Aristotle’s fundamental principle is that everything that is in motion is moved by something else, and he offers a number of (unconvincing) arguments to this effect. He then argues that there cannot be an infinite series of moved movers. If it is true that when A is in motion there must be some B that moves A, then if B is itself in motion there must be some C moving B, and so on. This series cannot go on forever, and so it must come to a halt in some X that is a cause of motion but does not move itself—an unmoved mover.

Since the motion it causes is everlasting, this X must itself be an eternal substance. It must lack matter, for it cannot come into existence or go out of existence by turning into anything else. It must also lack potentiality, for the mere power to cause motion would not ensure the sempiternity of motion. It must, therefore, be pure actuality (energeia). Although the revolving heavens, for Aristotle, lack the possibility of substantial change, they possess potentiality, because each heavenly body has the power to move elsewhere in its diurnal round. Since these bodies are in motion, they need a mover, and this is a motionless mover. Such a mover could not act as an efficient cause, because that would involve a change in itself



If Aristotle is right, then there can't be more than one unmoved mover.
Since God's actions are dictated by Omniscience, then the one unmoved mover would be Omniscience and not God.

Or omniscience is total bunk.
 

Ktoyou

Well-known member
Hall of Fame

The unmoved mover
The way in which Aristotle seeks to show that the universe is a single causal system is through an examination of the notion of movement, which finds its culmination in Book XI of the Metaphysics. As noted above, motion, for Aristotle, refers to change in any of several different categories. Aristotle’s fundamental principle is that everything that is in motion is moved by something else, and he offers a number of (unconvincing) arguments to this effect. He then argues that there cannot be an infinite series of moved movers. If it is true that when A is in motion there must be some B that moves A, then if B is itself in motion there must be some C moving B, and so on. This series cannot go on forever, and so it must come to a halt in some X that is a cause of motion but does not move itself—an unmoved mover.

Since the motion it causes is everlasting, this X must itself be an eternal substance. It must lack matter, for it cannot come into existence or go out of existence by turning into anything else. It must also lack potentiality, for the mere power to cause motion would not ensure the sempiternity of motion. It must, therefore, be pure actuality (energeia). Although the revolving heavens, for Aristotle, lack the possibility of substantial change, they possess potentiality, because each heavenly body has the power to move elsewhere in its diurnal round. Since these bodies are in motion, they need a mover, and this is a motionless mover. Such a mover could not act as an efficient cause, because that would involve a change in itself



If Aristotle is right, then there can't be more than one unmoved mover.
Since God's actions are dictated by Omniscience, then the one unmoved mover would be Omniscience and not God.

Omniscience? I thought God was the boss?
 

quip

BANNED
Banned
Aristotle could be wrong.

And probably is:
"Aristotle describes the unmoved mover as being perfectly beautiful, indivisible, and contemplating only the perfect contemplation: itself contemplating."

By Aristotle's own implication this unmovable mover seems moved to create by the (its own?) standards of perfection, beauty, contemplation and indivisibility.

Both (this and omniscience) are merely limited conceptual semantics...that's the best mankind may muster.
 

MennoSota

New member
If an entity is omniscient, that means it knows everything — down to the movement of every subatomic particle throughout all history.

That entity must precede every physical thing.

The entity must be the source of everything.

The entity cannot have arrived at omniscience.

The entity had no option but to create exactly as it knew would happen.

An man living in this universe would be fated at every moment of his life.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Sounds like you're a naturalistic atheist. All hail the natural universe as it unthinkingly determines the movement of all matter at all moments. You can do nothing that nature has not programmed you to do.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Even if God knew everything it wouldn't mean that people are "fated" to act. It's just foreknowledge of what will happen.
 
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