NT's use of singular and plural

[Tambora]

Singular

2 Samuel 7 ESV​

(12) When your days are fulfilled and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring after you, who shall come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom.​

(13) He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.​

(14) I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son. When he commits iniquity, I will discipline him with the rod of men, with the stripes of the sons of men,​

Plural

2 Corinthians 6 ESV​

(16) What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.​

(17) Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you,​

(18) and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty.​

 

[Right Divider]

Is there a point that you're trying to make?

 

[Tambora]

Singular

Genesis 3 ESV​

(15) I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.”​

Plural

Romans 16 ESV​

(17) I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.​

(18) For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.​

(19) For your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, but I want you to be wise as to what is good and innocent as to what is evil.​

(20) The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.​

 

[Tambora]

Many

Hosea 11 ESV​

(1) When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.​

One

Matthew 2 ESV​

(15) and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, “Out of Egypt I called my son.”​

 

[Gary K]

Many

Hosea 11 ESV​

(1) When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.​

One

Matthew 2 ESV​

(15) and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, “Out of Egypt I called my son.”​

God's only begotten son was to come through the line of Israel, Jacob. Here is what God had to say to Pharaoh

Exo 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
Exo 4:23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

 

[Nick M]

Singular Plural

​

So? I don't know where you are going with it. Paul's gospel is not prophetic. But he reasoned from the scriptures that Jesus is the Christ.

 

[Tambora]

Paul's gospel is not in prophetic.

It is.

Galatians 3
(14) That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

But he reasoned from the scriptures that Jesus is the Christ.

As did the other apostles.

 

[Nick M]

It is.

Galatians 3
(14) That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.



As did the other apostles.

We are looking back, not forward to the prophets. Where it was a mystery.

25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began 26 but now made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith— 27 to God, alone wise, be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen.

For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— 2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7

You should be ashamed of yourself. Not everything was revealed to Paul at once either.

14 And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’ 15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’

 

[Tambora]

We are looking back, not forward to the prophets. Where it was a mystery.

25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began 26 but now made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith— 27 to God, alone wise, be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen.

For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— 2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7

You should be ashamed of yourself. Not everything was revealed to Paul at once either.

14 And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’ 15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’

The mystery was that Christ would first come as a suffering servant and die instead of being the conquering warrior Christ they expected.
Paul, as the other apostles, did not realize it until after it happened when they encountered the risen Lord.

1 Corinthians 2 KJV​

(7) But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:​

(8) Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.​

I am not even remotely ashamed of considering every angle of scripture as everyone should do when they study scripture, and keep doing.

 

[JudgeRightly]

The mystery was that Christ would first come as a suffering servant and die instead of being the conquering warrior Christ they expected.

How many times did Jesus predict His death? | GotQuestions.org

How many times did Jesus predict His death? Why did the disciples repeatedly fail to understand that Jesus was going to die on the cross?

www.gotquestions.org

It wasn't a mystery at all. His disciples just didn't comprehend it.

The mystery was something kept secret since the beginning of the world.

Paul, as the other apostles, did not realize it until after it happened when they encountered the risen Lord.

1 Corinthians 2 KJV​

(7) But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:​

(8) Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.​

I'm not sure how you confused "Paul" and "the other apostles" with "the princes of this world."

 

[Tambora]

It wasn't a mystery at all. His disciples just didn't comprehend it.

No one comprehended it which is why it was a mystery to them.
Not even the prices of this world comprehended it.
That mystery wasn't revealed to the apostles until after the death and resurrection when they encountered the risen Lord.

I'm not sure how you confused "Paul" and "the other apostles" with "the princes of this world."

That's because I don't confuse them.

 

[JudgeRightly]

No one comprehended it which is why it was a mystery to them.

Doesn't make it "the mystery" Paul talks about, that had been kept secret since the foundation of the world, but was revealed to him.

Not even the pri[n]ces of this world comprehended it.

Supra.

That mystery wasn't revealed to the apostles until after the death and resurrection when they encountered the risen Lord.

Again, I point you to the fact that Jesus, multiple times, told them (revealed it to them) that he would die. That means it is NOT "the mystery kept secret from the foundation of the world" Paul speaks of.

That's because I don't confuse them.

You said:

Paul, as the other apostles, did not realize it until after it happened when they encountered the risen Lord.

And then quoted 1 Corinthians 2:7-8 as if that supported your claim, despite the fact that the passage has literally nothing to do with the other Apostles!

If that's not confusing them with "the rulers of the age" (the more accurate translation of the phrase used), then why did you even quote the verse?

 

[Tambora]

Doesn't make it "the mystery" Paul talks about, that had been kept secret since the foundation of the world, but was revealed to him.

It was revealed after the death and resurrection.
If it was revealed to them before that then they would have accepted it, but they didn't.

Again, I point you to the fact that Jesus, multiple times, told them (revealed it to them) that he would die. That means it is NOT "the mystery kept secret from the foundation of the world" Paul speaks of.

A mystery is something that has not yet been revealed, not something that was never mentioned before because it was mentioned in OT but was still a mystery.

You said:



And then quoted 1 Corinthians 2:7-8 as if that supported your claim, despite the fact that the passage has literally nothing to do with the other Apostles!

If that's not confusing them with "the rulers of the age" (the more accurate translation of the phrase used), then why did you even quote the verse?

It doesn't confuse the two groups (believers & princes of this world).
It clearly points out both.
So how you take it to mean that I "confuse" them is beyond me.


1 Corinthians 2 KJV
(7) But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
(8) Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

 

[Right Divider]

It was revealed after the death and resurrection.
If it was revealed to them before that then they would have accepted it, but they didn't.

I'm having a hard time following you. You seem to be changing your story. At one point you claim that it was a mystery because they did not comprehend it, next you say it was a mystery because it was not revealed until later.

The "mystery" that Paul preached was none of the above.

Again, you seemed to know this before (i.e., the old Tambora).

 

[Tambora]

I'm having a hard time following you. You seem to be changing your story. At one point you claim that it was a mystery because they did not comprehend it, next you say it was a mystery because it was not revealed until later.

What is not comprehended would be a mystery because the meaning is not yet understood (not yet revealed).

The "mystery" that Paul preached was none of the above.

Of course it was.
Paul preached it right here:

1 Corinthians 2 KJV
(7) But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
(8) Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Again, you seemed to know this before (i.e., the old Tambora).

I don't know of anyone who has never changed any of their understanding upon further study of scripture.
I, Tambora, keep on studying.
I, Tambora, am not afraid to challenge my own understanding with further studying.

 

[Right Divider]

Of course it was.
Paul preached it right here:

1 Corinthians 2 KJV
(7) But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
(8) Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Paul was not preaching the same doctrine as the twelve.
Paul separated his ministry from the twelve. See Gal 2

Jesus taught this:
John 4:22 (AKJV/PCE)
(4:22) Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

But Jesus had Paul teach this:
Rom 11:11 (AKJV/PCE)
(11:11) I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

I don't know of anyone who has never changed any of their understanding upon further study of scripture.
I, Tambora, keep on studying.
I, Tambora, am not afraid to challenge my own understanding with further studying.

The problem comes when you change from being right to being wrong.

 

[Tambora]

Paul was not preaching the same doctrine as the twelve.

He was after the death and resurrection.

The problem comes when you change from being right to being wrong.

The problem is getting all in an uproar when anyone challenges what you think you know at the time.

 

[Right Divider]

He was after the death and resurrection.

That does not even make sense.

Paul's ministry was ALL after He met Christ after His death, resurrection AND ASCENSION.

In Acts 2, after the death and resurrection, Peter was NOT "preaching the cross" (i.e., that it was good news). Peter was preaching about the cross as a murder weapon. Peter was condemning Israel for the death of Christ via the cross.

 

[Tambora]

That does not even make sense.

Paul's ministry was ALL after He met Christ after His death, resurrection AND ASCENSION.

Which makes it after the death and resurrection.
As brilliant as he was in OT knowledge, he didn't even understand until he encountered the risen Lord.

In Acts 2, after the death and resurrection, Peter was NOT "preaching the cross" (i.e., that it was good news). Peter was preaching about the cross as a murder weapon.

It was an instrument of death.

Peter was condemning Israel for the death of Christ via the cross.

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

 

[Right Divider]

Which makes it after the death and resurrection.
As brilliant as he was in OT knowledge, he didn't even understand until he encountered the risen Lord.

That is irrelevant to your idea that the ministries of the Paul and the twelve were identical.

It was an instrument of death.

Duh... again, Paul preaches this "instrument of death" as good news... Peter does not.

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Again, there is NO mention of "good news" regarding the cross in Acts 2. There is no "Jesus died for your sins" there either. Did you also notice that Peter is preaching only to the "house of Israel".

Remember what Jesus said:

Matt 15:24 (AKJV/PCE)
(15:24) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

John 20:21 (AKJV/PCE)
(20:21) Then said Jesus to them again, Peace [be] unto you: as [my] Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

Jesus sent them as His Father had sent Him... to Israel.