ECT NT Eschatology #5: Acts 26 shapes Israel's outcome

Lazy afternoon

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Never happened yet---

Zec 12:5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.
Zec 12:6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
Zec 12:7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.


Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

LA

Nope, you're wrong.

So when did this occur in the past,

and why does the book of Rev. show it to occur after Christ returns to destroy the wicked of the nations.

This does not require a restoration of flesh Israel but of the true believers in Christ --

Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
Rev 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
Rev 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
Rev 18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

and --

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

None of this has happened yet.

LA
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
that's not what you need to answer Jerry. You need to answer: how did Peter and Paul "do" the promises to David in Acts 2 and 13?

Why do you continue to insist that the LORD altered His promises even though He said that they would not alter them?

Your theology is so bankrupt that you must say that the LORD broke His promises to David because He altered the promises which He made to him.

You people should be ashamed of yourselves!
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
tet is so lacking in common sense that he thinks that the following events have already happened:

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved...Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness" (2 Pet.3:10-11, 13).​

"And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest" (Heb.1:10-11).​

It is true what they say, "Take to preterism and it will make you stupid."

tet is the perfect example which proves that axiom!
 

tetelestai

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LIFETIME MEMBER
All you are doing is "altering" the promises which the LORD made to David despite the fact that He said He would do no such thing:

"I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant...Nevertheless my loving-kindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David" (Ps.89:3,33-35).

Since the Lord will not alter the promises he made to David then this promise will be fulfilled in the future:

"Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David...I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime" (2 Sam.7:8,10).​

Since you consider yourself on expert of the Israelites tell me when the children of Israel were brought back to the land and they moved no more and the children of wickedness afflicted them no more.

When?

All fulfilled Jerry.

Christ Jesus sat on the throne of David in 70AD in the kingdom.

The kingdom is not of this world.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Paul could have saved himself a lot of trouble by saying that there was another round for Israel as such in Acts 26.

You wouldn't believe him if he did. Let us look what the Apostles asked the Lord after they had been with Him for forty days while He tutored them about the kingdom:

"When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?" (Acts1:6).​

If they were in error for thinking that the kingdom was to be restored to Israel surely He would have corrected them. But He did no such thing. Instead, He told them that they were not to know when it would happen:

"And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power" (Acts 1:9).

Despite these facts you have no place in your eschatology for the restoration of the kingdom to Israel. So the only answer you can give is the idea that the Apostles were in error--despite the fact that they were at the knee of the King for forty days while He taught them about the kingdom.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
All fulfilled Jerry.

Christ Jesus sat on the throne of David in 70AD in the kingdom.

The kingdom is not of this world.

Once again you assert that the LORD altered the promises which He made to David even though He promised that He would do no such thing:

"I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant...Nevertheless my loving-kindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David" (Ps.89:3,33-35).​

You are willing to argue that the LORD lied to David because He did alter the promises which He made to David just so you can cling to the most ridiculous fable ever invented my man--preterism!

Once again you prove what is said here is true--"Take to preterism and it will make you stupid."
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
tet is so lacking in common sense that he thinks that the following events have already happened:

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved...Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness" (2 Pet.3:10-11, 13).​

Fulfilled Jerry.

We now live in the new heavens and the new earth.

"And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest" (Heb.1:10-11).​

(Ecclesiastes 1:4) Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever.

Which one is it Jerry, does the earth parish, or does the earth remain forever?

It is true what they say, "Take to preterism and it will make you stupid."

Who is "they"?

tet is the perfect example which proves that axiom!

You should look up the definition of the word "axiom"
 

whitestone

Well-known member
simple as it seems,if Noah was perfect in his generations and it was the will of God to replenish the earth with the seed provided,again the seed of Jacob might be the promised will as in the days of Noah,tomorrow,,,
 

tetelestai

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Once again you assert that the LORD altered the promises which He made to David even though He promised that He would do no such thing:

The Lord didn't alter the promises, they were all fulfilled in Christ Jesus.

Christ Jesus right now sits on the throne of David in the kingdom. It's an unshakable kingdom that doesn't need to be defended, and never will the people in the kingdom be removed.
 

tetelestai

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LIFETIME MEMBER
It is true what they say, "Take to preterism and it will make you stupid."

First Jerry asks if his above premise is true.

tet is the perfect example which proves that axiom!

Then Jerry calls his premise an axiom.

Let's look at the definition of axiom:

Axiom - "an axiom is a premise so evident as to be accepted as true without controversy"

So, as we see, Jerry asked if his axiom is true or not.

Hey Jerry, if you have to ask if an axiom is true or not, it's not an axiom.
 

HisServant

New member
First Jerry asks if his above premise is true.



Then Jerry calls his premise an axiom.

Let's look at the definition of axiom:

Axiom - "an axiom is a premise so evident as to be accepted as true without controversy"

So, as we see, Jerry asked if his axiom is true or not.

Hey Jerry, if you have to ask if an axiom is true or not, it's not an axiom.

We all know he isn't the brightest bulb.
 

whitestone

Well-known member
Either fire will come,and the heavens and the earth will be clean dissolved,the molecule of things will reduce it's self to it's final state and the residue of it will fall victim to gravity(?),,and it's elements then will seep down into the fire in the inwards of the earth and find their half life...

Where in there then shall we declare the finality of destruction,where is the end thereof? Shall another come,an new day,another earth and another Heaven? Another replenishing of the earth,another day?,,,,,,,

Who will set it's bounds,one saith this another that,yet proof is the treasure of all possessions in the matter. Who is the Prophet,who is he who would will to follow the path to the reckoning found within the words the Almighty God hast set forth and spoken?,,,
 

whitestone

Well-known member
can you assure me that all of your eschatology fits nicely into the remainder of what is referred to as today? ,,,after this,in the remainder can you assure me that another day is not left remaining and that this day will not remain until the final moment before it is said there is no more time?,,,
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Why must you always pervert what I said. Please quote me ASKING if my premise is true



Quote me!


Here you go:

It is true what they say, "Take to preterism and it will make you stupid."

Then you said:

tet is the perfect example which proves that axiom!

axiom's don't need proof Jerry

From Wikipedia:

"Among the ancient Greek philosophers an axiom was a claim which could be seen to be true without any need for proof."
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Fulfilled Jerry.

We now live in the new heavens and the new earth.

Once again you provide proof that you are not dealing with a full deck. You say that the following event has already happened:

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved...Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness" (2 Pet.3:10-11, 13).​

Since Peter wrote those words the same heaven remain above and the same earth remains under our feet. So you must be delusional if you think that heaven and that earth have been dissolved. Now let us look at this passage:

"And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest" (Heb.1:10-11).​

This is speaking about the heavens and the earth which were from the BEGINNING. According to your delusional ideas that heaven and earth have perished! When did that happen?

No other proof is needed of your lunacy. You are not in touch with reality.

You need professional help and I can only have pity on you.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Once again you provide proof that you are not dealing with a full deck. you say that the following two things have already happened:

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved...Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness" (2 Pet.3:10-11, 13).​

Jerry, the new heavens and new earth are not literal.

Early church fathers from the third and fourth century knew this:

"the old and elementary system passed away with a great noise; all these predicted empires have actually fallen, and the new kingdom, the new heaven and earth, the new Jerusalem--all of which were to descend from God, to be formed by His power, have been realised on earth " - Eusebius, Theophania

"For if the heavens are to be changed, assuredly that which is changed does not perish, and if the fashion of the world passes away, it is by no means an annihilation or destruction of their material substance that is shown to take place, but a kind of change of quality and transformation of appearance. Isaiah also, in declaring prophetically that there will be a new heaven and a new earth, undoubtedly suggests a similar view." Origen, Principles, 2:6:4
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
We all know he isn't the brightest bulb.

Let us see how smart you are. Do you agree with tet that these two events have already come to pass?:

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved...Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness" (2 Pet.3:10-11, 13).​


"And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest" (Heb.1:10-11).​
 
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