You have trouble with pronouns, don't you?
No Takers Thread
- Thread starter Samie
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You have trouble with pronouns, don't you?
Yes, even atheists are now "in Christ", but they will be blotted out from the book of life for not overcoming the evil of unbelief in God.
Don't get bothered with my pronoun problems. Be bothered whether you are this side of the fence with Christ.
Not biblical.
You said atheists believe in God. Believing is a spiritual act doable only by the spiritually alive, those who are "in Christ" Who is our Life (Col 3:4). Therefore, the atheists are "in Christ", otherwise they could not believe for apart from Christ they can do NOTHING (John 15:5). Simple and biblical.
Exactly! So how do you miss the context of the words of Christ? Or do you just like to argue from an imaginary position of self righteous exclusivity?
No missing of context. The context is clear because His words are clear: Apart from Me you can do NOTHING. No arguing. Just simply believing the words of the Master. And the Master said NOTHING. So if one can do SOMETHING (like believing), then he is "in Christ".
You are confused because at another time Jesus said "Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!"
Joining with Christ is a faith based decision by one is apart from Christ. That is the something they can do of their own volition.
Because He had deleted them from the book of life. They did not overcome evil with good.
When one is apart from Christ, he cannot do anything spiritual, like believing. Believing is the exercise of faith. And faith is fruit of the Spirit. And only those "in Christ" can bear fruit. So, "in Christ" first BEFORE one bears fruit. Simple.
When one forsakes self and joins Christ they have made that decision in their hearts. They have done something spiritual. You are creating an issue where none existed.
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
Yes
That isn't what he said. You made that up because you are evil and trying to pull people from the faith.
John 12
32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.”
Caino was right here. It is legalism. You are looking for a clear-cut set of rules so that you don't have to exercise your brain and take responsibility for everyday situations or to make every day decisions.
John 15:5 was addressed to Jesus' disciples and it is talking about bearing fruits. Your saying
is actually a travesty of the very scripture you are commenting on. In the first place you change disciples to man in general and in the second place you change fruits to a very stressed 'NOTHING'. Jesus clearly meant that disciples will bear no fruit unless they remain in Christ. This is nothing to do with unbelievers. If you want to talk about unbelievers, try some other scripture.
It's not just legalism. You want to reduce the infinite mercy of God and the depth of his righteous judgements to some simplistic statement because it is convenient to you. You are what Paul described when he said (of his own countrymen)
(Rom 10:2-3)
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Correct. And any spiritual act is doable only by the spiritually alive, by those who are "in Christ". The spiritually dead, those who are NOT "in Christ" can simply do NOTHING, as Christ Himself said.
Simply closing our spiritual ears to what our Savior said doesn't negate what He said: "Apart from Me you can do NOTHING (John 15:5). The fact that people are able to believe and repent is proof enough they are "in Christ".
Free Grace believers believe we are without God and without hope in the world and UNABLE to do anything about it......Salvation for us starts and finishes with God alone...How can we who are dead in sin repent and believe? "with men it is impossible but with God all things are possible"
True, my brother. So, how many did He draw to Himself. Yes, All. Proving that all are "in Christ".
That's not true, that's some nonsense that you came up with on your own. The born again were humanly alive before they were reborn of the spirit and became in Christ.
That's why to be possible, people have to be "in Christ" first before they can do anything spiritual. Paul says he can do all things through Christ. And without Christ? NOTHING.
Are you preaching universalism?