Right Divider
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You are lying. But that's no surprise. Those that hate the truth often lie.
No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !
- Thread starter beloved57
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Is there ANY scripture that you do not twist to conform to your doctrine?
How is it even possible for a someone to fail to detect it when they are so completely upside down and backward?
Bringing a belief to the word of God and making His word somehow agree with whatever it is you've brought with you is not how doctrine is supposed to work! It's supposed to be the other way around! God's word is suppose to teach you what to believe, not color the beliefs which you bring to it.
beloved57
Well-known member
No one can come to Jesus unless capacitated by the Father; that is, no one has the ability to receive Jesus unless the Father gives it to him.
John 6:44,65
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
This defeats the false notion of man having a freewill to receive Jesus Christ as in Jn 1:12
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 6:44,65
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
This defeats the false notion of man having a freewill to receive Jesus Christ as in Jn 1:12
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Romans 10:9-13
King James Version
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+10&version=KJV
beloved57
Well-known member
Jesus said some will not come to Him Jn 5:40
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
The reason for that is simple, they have not been given to Christ by the Father in Divine Election, because Jesus went on to say Jn 6:37
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Some out of mankind has been given to Christ, pertaining to election, Jn 17:2
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
These will come to Him that they may have life in contrast to them in Jn 5:40 who will not come !
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
The reason for that is simple, they have not been given to Christ by the Father in Divine Election, because Jesus went on to say Jn 6:37
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Some out of mankind has been given to Christ, pertaining to election, Jn 17:2
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
These will come to Him that they may have life in contrast to them in Jn 5:40 who will not come !
beloved57
Well-known member
Men by nature cant comprehend the Light, Its written Jn 1:5
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Man by nature is the darkness Eph 5:8
For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
The word comprehend in Jn 1:5 means :
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Man by nature is the darkness Eph 5:8
For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
The word comprehend in Jn 1:5 means :
- to lay hold of with the mind
- to understand, perceive, learn, comprehend
beloved57
Well-known member
First, man cannot come to Him for life. He stated, “No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him” (6:44). Again he says, “Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto Me, except it were given unto Him of My Father” (6:65). The ability to come to Christ for eternal life has two aspects: (1) an inner compelling or “drawing” by the Father to the Son, and (2) the gift or “grant” of the Father of the ability to come to Christ. He taught also that those who come to Him have been given to Him by the Father (6:37) RBS
John 3:16
King James Version
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.AND in John 6:44 , here is what I see it MEANS .
The Greek word FATHER / PATER , is in the NOMINATIVE CASE and is the main SUBJECT .
It is the FATHER that draws these Jews NOT CHRIST .
The FATHER is the one who DRAWS/ HELKO and is in the AORIST TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE , and in the SUBJECTIVE MOOD and that means he will DRAW or NOT DRAW and all DRAWING is controlled by the SUBJECTIVE MOOD .
What many fail to see is the CONTEXT , of I will RAISE / AUTOS which is a PERSONAL , POSSESSIVE PRONOUN which is the FATHERS POSSESSION , him up at the LAST DAY , which is in the Greek FUTURE TENSE .
So what does the LAST DAY MEAN , it means the LAST DAYS of Israel .
dan p
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When a person is being drawn by God, is it a guarantee that that person will repent and have faith?
beloved57
Well-known member
Yes, the person is born again and given Faith and Repentance.
Right Divider
Body part
You are extremely silly.
Wrong.
Speaking of Israel:
“I was sought by those who did not ask for Me; I was found by those who did not seek Me. I said, ‘Here I am, here I am,’ To a nation that was not called by My name.I have stretched out My hands all day long to a rebellious people, Who walk in a way that is not good, According to their own thoughts;A people who provoke Me to anger continually to My face; Who sacrifice in gardens, And burn incense on altars of brick;Who sit among the graves, And spend the night in the tombs; Who eat swine’s flesh, And the broth of abominable things is in their vessels;Who say, ‘Keep to yourself, Do not come near me, For I am holier than you!’ These are smoke in My nostrils, A fire that burns all the day. - Isaiah 65:1-5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah65:1-5&version=NKJV
But to Israel he says: “All day long I have stretched out My hands To a disobedient and contrary people.” - Romans 10:21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans10:21&version=NKJV
An outstretched hand is a way of drawing someone.
beloved57
Well-known member
No man/person can come to Jesus Christ in believing except it be for performance of God ! Its like when Jesus says here Jn 3:20-21
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Coming to the Light, which is coming to Jesus who is the Light of the world Jn 8:12;9:5,12:46 is wrought by God, its His accomplished work for men to come to Christ Jn 6:65
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Coming to the Light, which is coming to Jesus who is the Light of the world Jn 8:12;9:5,12:46 is wrought by God, its His accomplished work for men to come to Christ Jn 6:65
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
What about if God went to the cross, would that be a "performance of God" that would allow people to come to God?
Well it's certainly enabled by God, but what specific action is done by God for that to happen?
Is it possible in your mind that the answer is Christ's death on the cross, burial, and resurrection?
Jesus was speaking to his disciples ABOUT how His Father gave His DISCIPLES to Him.
That's it. He wasn't talking about anyone else other than the twelve, one of whom betrayed Jesus, no less.
It has nothing to do with salvation.
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beloved57
Well-known member
The reason why men by nature cant come to Christ by their so called freewill is because mans natural carnal mins is enmity against God Rom 8:7
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
That word enmity is the greek word echthra:
hostility; by implication, a reason for opposition:—enmity, hatred.
Man naturally in his thoughts, purposes is against God, hates God, so hates Christ who is God Jn 1:1 ! This characterizes mans lost state by nature, so thats why its declared that no man can come to Christ save the Father draws him Jn 6:44,65, or except a man is born again !
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
That word enmity is the greek word echthra:
hostility; by implication, a reason for opposition:—enmity, hatred.
Man naturally in his thoughts, purposes is against God, hates God, so hates Christ who is God Jn 1:1 ! This characterizes mans lost state by nature, so thats why its declared that no man can come to Christ save the Father draws him Jn 6:44,65, or except a man is born again !
Once again, you're not hitting the point of contention.
The point of contention is man can, in fact, ACKNOWLEDGE that he is at enmity, in RESPONSE to being presented the gospel, which is God's act on them, OR HE CAN REJECT IT!
beloved57
Well-known member
No man can come to Christ naturally because by nature as Paul writes concerning the gentiles in Eph 2 they are helpless and without hope in themselves pertaining to Salvation Eph 2:12
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Man naturally, is without spiritual strength Rom 5:6
For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. We were by nature powerless to help ourselves, in a dead lost spiritual state !
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Man naturally, is without spiritual strength Rom 5:6
For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. We were by nature powerless to help ourselves, in a dead lost spiritual state !
You're still not hitting the point of contention.
The point of contention is man can, in fact, ACKNOWLEDGE that he is at enmity, in RESPONSE to being presented the gospel, which is God's act on them, OR HE CAN REJECT IT!
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