No, the problem is you are intentionally obfuscating for the purpose of causing confusion.
Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
ECT Nang's Boastful Lie
- Thread starter Doom
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No, the problem is you are intentionally obfuscating for the purpose of causing confusion.
Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
Now, is this true of the Body of Christ? PPS says yes, indicating addition to the gospel. We are not to regard the flesh, you say we are. Let you be accursed.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
People sin and murder their offspring, but the blame remains on them, not God.
God is not the author of sin. God is the Judge of sin and His just judgments are perfect.
Homosexuality and abortion are both judgments unto condemnation imposed by God upon reprobate souls, for their gross lack of morality, their unbelief, and to manifest His Justice against sin.
What a man sows, he also reaps . . .
:chuckle:
And just a few posts ago you said you never said and asked for proof. Wow....and they are not reprobate because he knows what they will do, she says because it is his desire.
What a despicable wretched human being you are. You are skubala as Paul said.
musterion
Well-known member
I know you know who Sproul is. I'm not sure what you think of him. Anyway, as a young believer someone gave me a book of his that said (paraphrasing) if there is even one stray molecule of gas floating out in deep space that God is not in direct control of every second of its existence, He is not in absolute control, thus not sovereign, thus not God.
Do you think Sproul was overstating the Reformed case with that?
It has a lot to do with the lack of vocal tones. Communication is pretty hard sometimes.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
If I may interject, the Reformed view is that the human nature (PPS would say "hypostasis") was corrupted by Adam, and this corrupted nature is inherited by all his offspring.
It is not the sarx that causes corruption, even though corruption of nature manifests itself in our flesh in various way; mostly through physical death.
But the cause of spiritual death and spiritual corruption of our human nature traces all the way back to Adam and his original sin.
The only remedy for a nature totally corrupted, without life or spirit, is to be resurrected (regenerated) to new life by the power of the Holy Spirit of the last Adam, Jesus Christ.
At least this is how I understand the teachings of Paul in I Corinthians 15:45-49
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PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
It's not the Gnostic view to any extent, which purports all physical matter to be evil.
It comes from the old man (prosopon), which is the soma (body) and the yet-unconformed areas of our psuche (soul). It's why we must be renewed in the spirit of our minds. It's the working out (which is the inward function of imputed righteousness) of our salvation from the inner man (hypsotasis) to the outer man (prosopon).
Salvation is a qualitative existence, not just an event or a process. It requires both an initiating event AND a process, but the process isn't accomplishing the initiation of salvation, but of applying God's righteousness to that which is sinful. That's why, by His delegated exousia (power), we work out our salvation from our hypostasis to the prosopon.
This is God's redemption of our flesh. And by our hypostasis being translated into the prosopon of Christ to become partaker of God's divine nature, it is very much ANTI-Gnostic. God literally reaches inside our corrupt mortal flesh by the indwelling Spirit and makes His abode in us while there is yet sin in our members.
But it's because we're IN Christ and He's in us. Because the Spirit is in Him, it's in us; so it's not the new wine in our old wineskins. It's us being a new creature IN Christ.
It's the conduct portion of our imputed righteousness that supplants the conduct of our old man. Conduct MUST be part of imputed righteousness or the only conduct we could exhibit would be sin as our own standard.
It's very much like a divine grease gun squeezing out the old grease in a differential by putting in the new grease.
Sin is to the core of our "selves", which includes both body and soul. So it isn't remotely Gnostic or captial-M Mystical. It's ontology. The reality of spiritual literality and the miracle of the Gospel, entrusted to Paul by God.
It's what MAD is trying to express, but it's structural and constitutional, and compositional to our entire being.
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
No, I'm not obfuscating, you're being intentionally obtuse and obviously haven't read my many posts in this thread.
I added nothing to the Gospel, especially works.
This is the kind of drivel that constantly incites by false condemnation.
It is you who is ignoring imputed righteousness' inclusion of conduct, else you couldn't even exhibit the character of God. Your works will neither accomplish salvation nor negate it; so you MUST have the conduct of imputed righteousness or it's just your own.
It's not I who am in danger of being anathema according to Paul's Gospel.
"Keep" in Greek is "guard" from the base that literally means "warden". Imputed righteousness empowers us to keep God's commands, which are all summed up in love, which God IS and we are to BE... IN Christ.
Without both the character AND conduct of imputed righteousness, one must rely on his own works in futility to DO anything. THAT's the false Gospel of ignoring imputed righteousness includes conduct.
That's inner conduct of the heart, which has the imputed character of God IN Christ.
Works cannot attain, maintain, or retain righteousness that is imputed as part of salvation by faith and grace without works.
If you don't understand this as plainness of speech (which all my other posts have also been, according to many others who have responded), then it's on you and your hearing that is as hardened as your heart.
BE to DO. Not DO to BE. And be isn't a verb, so it's not a work. It's rest. IN Christ.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Men are left reprobate because they have inherited a corrupted human nature from the first Adam. They manifest all kinds of atrocities, which God does not cause, desire, or condone.
These acts become manifest judgments in the hands of the perfect Justice of God issued against all wickedness.
God is sovereign over all things. God manifests His Sovereignty through either Saving Grace or Divine Justice.
He is JUDGE; not perpetuator.
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
No, you're asking the wrong question.
Sin isn't a "something", like a malignant cancer in some location. Sin is an "a- something". It's the "somethinglessness" of being devoid of God's righteousness for character and conduct.
It's not "in" our members as a physical location. It means our physical members cannot accomplish anything but works that aren't God's standard.
It's a condition. A propensity. An inherent inclination. Sin isn't a substance, whether tangible or intangible. It's the lack of something as an "a- something". A "not something".
There's no location for it to be. It's "in" the members because our members are how we tangibly DO. The doing is what imputed the sin condition.
Sin (hamartia) is an archer's term. It doesn't refer to an archer standing up and aiming to hit a target, and then misses. It refers to an archer at any point in his life, while eating or sleeping or sitting or standing; and it referes to his inability to ever aim for or hit a target whether he ever aims or shoots or not. It has nothing to do with doing, except all doing will be sinning that produces individual sins.
Sin is not doing, though it is manifest in doing. Sin is BEING. It's a condition of BEING unrighteous. Since that's a condition of being that must be manifest by doing, sin thus becomes a verb of sinning with resutling acts as sins. But the sin begins as being, then inner conduct of the heart, then sinning as action, then having resulting acts after action is complete.
The sin in the members isn't a something in a something as a location. It's the condition of our entire being as not being God's righteousness and never being able to accomplish God's righteousness.
That's why imputed righteousness includes both character and conduct. If it's only character, we'd be left to our own standards of conduct to attempt to DO according to our new BEING in Christ.
Righteousness is not just a label of an assigned new status. It's the whole package. It's the empowerment for conduct to accompany the character, and both are imputed to us.
Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Rev 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Overcoming is something men do after they are saved.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
LA
I don't particularly like to be smeared by those claiming my beliefs are connected to the church of Satan, but I still love you.
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105639
I'd like to use an analogy to describe what, I believe you to be?
One visits a car lot, and a nice shiny, brilliantly painted and
beautifully detailed car catches your eye. For a brief few moments
you're totally enthralled with the splendor of such a, truly
marvelous looking Automobile then, you reach out to open
the hood and suddenly, you're looking at a totally messed up,
dirty, unkept, travesty of an engine, and all its inner workings!
You take it for a 'spin' and it breaks down half way down the road
and has to be towed back to the dealership! What went wrong? Well,
first off, our concentration was on the outward appearance! It looked
good, it sounded good (before opening the hood) we believed it would
run as good as it appeared however, the truth was, it was all paint,
wax, and glimmer on the outside but, on the inside, it just didn't/
couldn't match the outside!
The moral of the 'analogy;' appearances can be deceiving! Unless
one is an expert mechanic, others, not so inclined, can be tricked
into believing they're seeing "The real thing!" This little analogy
is not only about you! I believe you to be a counterfeit however,
only God can see the hearts of men!
and you.