Muslims Are Split

[Greg Jennings]

As evangelists they are not welcome! And it has been my experience over the years that sooner or later every Muslim who posts here begins to evangelize.

Well I can't speak on that, as I have no experience with Muslims on this website personally.


However, I do find it odd that Christians are welcomed to evangelize here, but Muslims are shunned for it. True, this is a Christian forum. But you can see why that might be seen as less-than-fair, don't you?

 

[Apple7]

There's a fantastic amount of ignorance, lack of context and historical illiteracy in this thread that reflects the hubris of western media Islamofobia. Listening to so called Christians rail on another faith from a position of ignorance is akin to listening to a criminal complaining about crime to a fellow criminal. The hypocrisy displayed here is certainly not 'Christ like' or Christian.

Why, as a Christ-denier, do you think you are qualified to make that call...?

 

[Stuu]

No. Im deadly serious. Im more than happy to provide evidence if you're interested, as the case in France got referred to the EU Court of human rights as freedom of religion is enshrined in EU law. And im not talking about removal of privileges. Im talking about direct persecution.

I believe you that there have been isolated cases. Some examples might help.

If thats the case then Jesus is/was a liar and Christianity would be pointless...

I don't think you have to accuse Jesus of being a liar to demonstrate that christianity is pointless. You could accuse the gospel writers of being deluded and/or having an agenda (the one written in Isaiah, for example).

I believe Jesus, whoever he was, is probably spinning in his grave at his own invented backstory. We only know historically that he lived in ancient Palestine and was executed by the Romans. Probably. You can't seriously claim to know what he actually said or did during his lifetime.

Stuart

 

[ok doser]

You can't seriously claim to know what he actually said or did during his lifetime.

Stuart

gee - if only somebody had paid attention and written it down, eh?

 

[Stuu]

gee - if only somebody had paid attention and written it down, eh?

Good to see that you understand the problem.

Stuart

 

[ok doser]

:duh: - the part of your post I responded to

pidd

 

[Stuu]

:duh: - the part of your post I responded to

pidd

I see that you can't see the problem.

Stuart

 

[ok doser]

I see that you can't see the problem.

Stuart

does it have to do with me trying to reason with a retard?

 

[Stuu]

does it have to do with me trying to reason with a retard?

I'm really not sure where you are coming from.

Do we agree, or not, that in terms of the methods of people who do historical research, it is not reasonable to claim to know what Jesus said or did? The gospel stories are palpably made up. I think the best argument for the existence of this particular Jesus is that there is so much in gospel accounts that is historically incorrect: these ancient Jews wrote down what they thought must have been true about Jesus, based on the prophecies that needed fulfillment, in the context of the political hotbed of Roman-occupied ancient Palestine. If there hadn't been a real person then they would not have had to rewrite history, they could just have written historical fiction.

The time of the Census of Quirinus and the time of Herod are not compatible. The idea of citizens having to return to their homelands for a census is invented, and of course it is invented so a prophecy can be fulfilled.

You (mockingly?) say that someone could have been there to write it down. Have you thought about this idea skeptically? We do not have any writing of anyone who was an eyewitness of Jesus.

Of have I misinterpreted your cryptic comment?

Stuart

 

[SonOfCaleb]

Why, as a Christ-denier, do you think you are qualified to make that call...?

I have powers of observation the same as you do or anybody else for that matter. Either way you don't need to be qualified to express an opinion that is after all the purpose of this forum/board, which equally hasn't prevented you from expressing yours, and making the fallacious claim that i apparently deny Christ.

 

[Apple7]

I have powers of observation the same as you do or anybody else for that matter. Either way you don't need to be qualified to express an opinion that is after all the purpose of this forum/board, which equally hasn't prevented you from expressing yours, and making the fallacious claim that i apparently deny Christ.

If you deny the deity of Christ, then you are a Christ-denier.

I would like for you to scripturally defend your position, otherwise you are just parroting false JW dogma...

 

[SonOfCaleb]

I believe you that there have been isolated cases. Some examples might help.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jehovah's_Witnesses

http://www.jw.org/en/news/legal/by-region/russia/taganrog-criminal-case/

http://www2.stetson.edu/~psteeves/relnews/1202c.html

http://www.jw.org/en/news/legal/by-region/russia/taganrog-jw-trial-video/

These are a few links that cover persecution of the Jehovahs Witnesses who as an apolitical religion have born the brunt of consistent persecution from various worldly governments since the organizations inception.
The wiki page covers the illegal persecution that has happened in France as well as Russia which still continues today.

I don't think you have to accuse Jesus of being a liar to demonstrate that christianity is pointless. You could accuse the gospel writers of being deluded and/or having an agenda (the one written in Isaiah, for example).

I believe Jesus, whoever he was, is probably spinning in his grave at his own invented backstory. We only know historically that he lived in ancient Palestine and was executed by the Romans. Probably. You can't seriously claim to know what he actually said or did during his lifetime.

Stuart

Ultimately Jesus is the head of the Christian congregation. He started the Christian movement/religion. There were many false Messiahs that existed prior to and after Jesus. Considering how meteoric the growth and spread was of Christianity after Jesus death, bearing in mind from a secular point of view there was nothing remarkable about Jesus life and death, nor anything that remarkable about the lives of the pastoral, patriarchal peoples he hailed from, the spread of Christianity should have been highly improbable. And yet it happened.... Therefore Jesus would have to be an extraordinary individual, certainly unparalleled in the history of mankind who was adept at getting Jews and Gentiles alike to buy his act, or he was the Son of God. Its really that binary in my opinion.

Presumably if you don't believe the Bible to be inspired or the gospels then that would prompt your statement "You can't seriously claim to know what he actually said or did during his lifetime", which i don't agree with. Much is known about Jesus life during his ministry as its recorded in the gospels.

 

[SonOfCaleb]

If you deny the deity of Christ, then you are a Christ-denier.

I would like for you to scripturally defend your position, otherwise you are just parroting false JW dogma...

Im afraid i don't engage in non-sequiturs Apple7. I've not said, nor implied, nor inferred in any of my correspondences to you, or posts on this board that i deny the Christ Jesus or that he is not a deity.
Im a afraid that's just a false claim you've made up, maybe to engage in a strawman debate...

 

[Apple7]

Im afraid i don't engage in non-sequiturs Apple7. I've not said, nor implied, nor inferred in any of my correspondences to you, or posts on this board that i deny the Christ Jesus or that he is not a deity.
Im a afraid that's just a false claim you've made up, maybe to engage in a strawman debate...

You think that Christ is a creation, a lesser god...this, then, is denial of His deity.

How are you JW's going to 'witness' to anyone who can call you out on your so-called theology, like I can?

Run from me....

 

[Apple7]

.... Therefore Jesus would have to be an extraordinary individual, certainly unparalleled in the history of mankind who was adept at getting Jews and Gentiles alike to buy his act, or he was the Son of God. Its really that binary in my opinion.

Jesus is monogenes, therefore, He is God.