Nineveh
Merely Christian
Freedomcry said:I can't speak for someone else. I can only speak for myself.
Find a better moral standard.
Freedomcry said:I can't speak for someone else. I can only speak for myself.
Nineveh said:Find a better moral standard.
Or codifying them.Freedomcry said:Doctrines of humanity and morality are the result of man doubting his instincts.
mighty_duck said:Or codifying them.
What if our basic instincts do lead us towards empathy, and from there the golden rule?
People can be brainwashed by society's norms for good or ill. But judging by the behavior of most animals, left to our own devices, our instincs should lead us to a society that is maintainable. It seems that the golden rule would be the best way of getting there.
If anything is hard wired, I submit that it is empathy. Choosing to ignore this instinct, has proven time and again (in hindsight), to lead to all the immorality the world has ever known.
Freedomcry said:I'm content with my morals as they are. If I weren't content with them, then I'd have different morals.
Nineveh said:It baffles me how you can be "content" not knowing it's absolutely wrong always to rape a 3 year old comatose girl. : shrugs : but then again, we've already established you have a low standard.
Freedomcry said:Maybe someday you'll understand that reality is a giant Rorschach inkblot and that morals and solely based on our perception of reality.
Nineveh said:And you have absolutely no moral standing to convict the child rapist.
Freedomcry said:I would put a rapist to death.
Nineveh said:Who are you to judge they should die?
Freedomcry said:I'm me. I want them dead because I don't want them permanently out of society. It's a purely selfish reason. My ideals against theirs.
But if we wish to maximize human happiness (which is the end result of morals), we would have to use a different set of morals than is advocated by most Christians.Freedomcry said:As far as maintaining the status quo (ie, survival), you have a point. But for that matter, if everyone adhered to strict Christian morals, I'm sure we would still survive (and be somewhat happy.)
I'm not sure what predestination has to do with it.Freedomcry said:However, I'm a nihilist. I don't believe man has any predestined purpose for survival. I don't believe anything has any predestined purpose, period. Sure, we're biologically wired to survive. But it's my feeling that if tomorrow the earth gets hit by a giant meteor and goes out in a blaze of fire...well, so be it. Maybe in another few billion years the human experience will rise again.
mighty_duck said:Would your children and grandchildren be meaningful to you? I bet they would be. So regardless of ultimate purpose, you have a vested interest in the morals of your society, today and in the future.
Nineveh said:You have absolutely no standing to make that judgement or follow that line of action.
Freedomcry said:Nineveh, I hope you don't mind, but I'll respond in a few days. At the moment, I'm mentally exhausted.
Freedomcry said:I would put a rapist to death. I've said it numerous time already.
citeFreedomcry said:I'm glad you brought up the justice system. I don't believe in justice either. (Uh oh, here we go :grave: )
I'm not going to judge someone on whether they're actions are right or wrong. And I'm certainly not going to judge them on what they "deserve". However, I will make a decision as to what my actions will be in response to theirs.
As for punishment:
In my opinion, punishment has absolutely no value if there is no opportunity for the subjects to rehabilitate after their punishment.
Have you ever noticed, SUTG, that the folks who argue for universal black-and-whites adopt as different an approach to that as possible? You know, rape of 3 year old comatose girls, homosexual rape of 8 year old boys, that sort of thing. As if being able to categorize these atrocities according to a simple black-and-white system demonstrates the general applicability of the black-and-white system (Has there ever been a society that would not consider the raping of comatose three year old girls to be wrong? Did all those societies that do disapprove of the raping of comatose three year old girls all arrive at that same conclusion only by using the same black-and-white moral code?) And as if your wondering if such a system really can be applied to tough cases means that you must be in favor of raping 3 year old comatose girls.SUTG said:Well, you haven't really answered very clearly.
How do I decide whether or not something is moral? Usually, I figure it out on my own using my reasoning abilities. Of course, this is whithin the context of me being raised in our culture, etc, etc. Alot of times it is pretty easy for me and i don't need to think about it too much. But, I can come up with some tough cases to consider. [my emphasis]
Nineveh said:I can see why. It must be taxing chasing your tail.
cite
You really need to find a better moral standard.
Nineveh said:You have absolutely no standing to make that judgement or follow that line of action.
Freedomcry said:Are you going to make any sort of intelligence conclusion based on those two posts you quoted?
I act in my best interest, just as everyone else. That's all man has ever done and will ever do.
Nineveh said:Let me see... in one you boast "I would put a rapist to death. I've said it numerous time already." in another you claim, "I'm not going to judge someone on whether they're actions are right or wrong. And I'm certainly not going to judge them on what they "deserve"."
Hard to see which way you wanna run with that.