Modern science is crazy again

[Interplanner]

https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search...ne+2017&ei=UTF-8&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-002

Unrelated, but Juneau AK had its wettest and coolest June in years as well.

 

[The Barbarian]

Every year has a few record cold days somewhere. The issue is that the last two years, the average temperature on the Earth's surface has been hottest on record. This year is on track to be the second hottest ever.

So not much point in looking for exceptions.

 

[Nihilo]

Every year has a few record cold days somewhere. The issue is that the last two years, the average temperature on the Earth's surface has been hottest on record. This year is on track to be the second hottest ever.

So not much point in looking for exceptions.

OK, but what point is there in invoking rhetoric like "saving the planet," which is what the "G19" said this past week?

 

[patrick jane]

OK, but what point is there in invoking rhetoric like "saving the planet," which is what the "G19" said this past week?

Yeah, by lowering the global temperature a tenth of a degree in 100 years

 

[rexlunae]

We're currently releasing carbon dioxide into the atmosphere at least ten times faster than any previous natural event that we can compare with.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-parallel-in-66-million-years-scientists-say/

The consequences of these emissions are long-lasting and irreversible. And we don't know what all of them will be. And there is a delay between emission and consequence.

We are not entitled to run this experiment. It risks the entire biosphere.

 

[thesocrates]

Yeah, by lowering the global temperature a tenth of a degree in 100 years

Even a small amount like that has a compounding effect, and it makes a big difference

 

[The Barbarian]

OK, but what point is there in invoking rhetoric like "saving the planet," which is what the "G19" said this past week?

The planet will be fine for another 4.5 billion years or so. Tens of millions of people might be in a bad way in the next generation if we continue to mung up the atmosphere. But humans will survive; even human civilization will almost certainly survive.

It's just going to be a little rougher for us in some places, like the Gulf Coast and the American West. The problems we've see so far are trifling compared to what they could become.

 

[Nihilo]

OK, but what point is there in invoking rhetoric like "saving the planet," which is what the "G19" said this past week?

The planet will be fine for another 4.5 billion years or so. Tens of millions of people might be in a bad way in the next generation if we continue to mung up the atmosphere. But humans will survive; even human civilization will almost certainly survive.

It's just going to be a little rougher for us in some places, like the Gulf Coast and the American West. The problems we've see so far are trifling compared to what they could become.

Man, aren't you just agreeing with me then? There's no need for rhetoric like, "Save the planet," for cripes sake. The most adaptable species in the history of species, is about to undergo a whimpy limp shoulder of a challenge from nature, just to keep us on our toes. Not a single life will be lost---going out on a limb---if even the worst case tens of feet of sea level rising occurs. This is a non-issue, and I don't mind President Trump saying, "No thanks," to transferring three billion of our tax-dollars to, "Save the planet." :idunno:

Anyway, :e4e:

 

[The Barbarian]

​

Man, aren't you just agreeing with me then?

Guess so. What is coming, is going to be bad enough without exaggeration.

There's no need for rhetoric like, "Save the planet," for cripes sake. The most adaptable species in the history of species, is about to undergo a whimpy limp shoulder of a challenge from nature, just to keep us on our toes.

Tens of millions of people are going to have to move or get huge amounts of aid. That's already underway. And life is going to be a lot more interesting on a lot of coastlines, notably the U.S. Gulf coast. Already, insurance rates are skyrocketing as destructive storms become more frequent and unpredictable (they run on temp differences, and as the sea warms up things get interesting)

The Sahel is going to be desert, and the American west is going to get drier. Grazing land is going to get semi-arid, semi-arid will go to desert, and some cropland will go to grazing. Same time this is going on, warmer winters are reducing snowpack, and therefore spring runoff to rivers, and the great aquifers are being drawn down faster than they can regenerate.

Not a good thing. In some places, though, it might actually get better. But historically, climate dislocations are associated with wars, human migration, and disorder. The great disruptions and prolonged dark age starting around 1200 BC seems to have been triggered by a series of climate changes.

People aren't just going to sit down and die, if their land suddenly becomes unproductive.

Not a single life will be lost---going out on a limb---if even the worst case tens of feet of sea level rising occurs.

It's going to be gradual. No one is going to be swept away. And so far, it's not much, mostly due to thermal expansion. Melting of continental glaciers is just beginning. Melting of polar sea ice and Antarctic ice shelves don't raise ocean levels at all. The problem is displacement, not drowning.

Hysteria is bad because it blinds us to the very real disasters that will happen if things go on as they are. I blame extremists on both sides.

 

[patrick jane]

Guess so. What is coming, is going to be bad enough without exaggeration.



Tens of millions of people are going to have to move or get huge amounts of aid. That's already underway. And life is going to be a lot more interesting on a lot of coastlines, notably the U.S. Gulf coast. Already, insurance rates are skyrocketing as destructive storms become more frequent and unpredictable (they run on temp differences, and as the sea warms up things get interesting)

The Sahel is going to be desert, and the American west is going to get drier. Grazing land is going to get semi-arid, semi-arid will go to desert, and some cropland will go to grazing. Same time this is going on, warmer winters are reducing snowpack, and therefore spring runoff to rivers, and the great aquifers are being drawn down faster than they can regenerate.

Not a good thing. In some places, though, it might actually get better. But historically, climate dislocations are associated with wars, human migration, and disorder. The great disruptions and prolonged dark age starting around 1200 BC seems to have been triggered by a series of climate changes.

People aren't just going to sit down and die, if their land suddenly becomes unproductive.




It's going to be gradual. No one is going to be swept away. And so far, it's not much, mostly due to thermal expansion. Melting of continental glaciers is just beginning. Melting of polar sea ice and Antarctic ice shelves don't raise ocean levels at all. The problem is displacement, not drowning.

Hysteria is bad because it blinds us to the very real disasters that will happen if things go on as they are. I blame extremists on both sides.

Bottom line? We can't stop it.

 

[rexlunae]

Man, aren't you just agreeing with me then? There's no need for rhetoric like, "Save the planet," for cripes sake.

It depends on what you think is worth trying to save.

The most adaptable species in the history of species, is about to undergo a whimpy limp shoulder of a challenge from nature, just to keep us on our toes.

You think humans are the most adaptable species? Because we're really, really not. Not even close. Insects. Bacteria. Fungi. I'm not exactly sure which species is the most successful, but it's probably one of those. We're the most successful great apes, but large multicellular organisms are pretty dependant, including us. We may be pretty smart, at least allegedly, but that's an entirely untested means of escaping a mass extinction event, and I don't think we should try to rely on it.

Not a single life will be lost---going out on a limb---if even the worst case tens of feet of sea level rising occurs. This is a non-issue, and I don't mind President Trump saying, "No thanks," to transferring three billion of our tax-dollars to, "Save the planet." :idunno:

Anyway, :e4e:

Yes, you are going out on a limb, and that should concern you. Because the stakes are pretty high. We are currently emitting carbon dioxide at a rate ten times greater than the historical precedent, and that was a major extinction event. Even if all you care about is the natural world, that is a foreboding precedent. But since we're releasing long-sequestered carbon into the atmosphere, we could trigger a carbon and methane explosion from a variety of sinks that could be destabilized by rising temperatures, and who knows what the limit of that could be? I know you don't.

 

[rexlunae]

Hysteria is bad because it blinds us to the very real disasters that will happen if things go on as they are. I blame extremists on both sides.

But I think you're understating the potential impact. Potentially.

 

[ok doser]

Meh :idunno:

If it gets us all driving Tesla S's, it'll be worth it :banana:

 

[glassjester]

Meh :idunno:

If it gets us all driving Tessa S's, it'll be worth it :banana:

Maybe it will get us all driving these:

 

[Jonahdog]

It's just going to be a little rougher for us in some places, like the Gulf Coast and the American West. The problems we've see so far are trifling compared to what they could become.

then again, there is Bangladesh but they are not white western Europeans, or people the the Trump family depends upon so who cares.

 

[ok doser]

then again, there is Bangladesh but they are not white western Europeans, of people the the Trump family depends upon so who cares.

Not me :idunno:


You?

 

[The Barbarian]

Bottom line? We can't stop it.

I believe we lack the political will and the moral fiber to stop it. It's not technologically impossible; too many people with too much money against it.

 

[The Barbarian]

But I think you're understating the potential impact. Potentially.

Dislocation of tens of millions of people is a bigger deal than most people think. It's the stuff that brings down nations and triggers wars and famines.

 

[ok doser]

Big deal

20.5 million college freshmen are displaced from their homes into the dorms every year, just in the us

 

[rocketman]

Big deal

20.5 million college freshmen are displaced from their homes into the dorms every year, just in the us

:chuckle: