Miss USA says to love the terrorists..

[republicanchick]

The problem with such extreme pacifism is that if it were called that all Christians do nothing, we'd all be Muslims right now..

exactly

so you anti-Catholics can quit complaining about the Crusades already

unless you want to be Muslims (?)... :mario:




=

 

[Word based mystic]

The more we pray and the more we love both God and others the more God moves on our behalf and responds to our spirit led and biblically motivated prayers. This puts into play God being our shield and protector. It also puts into play God moving the heart of the/king or leader.
We are not to (mainly) focus on using earthly weapons but instead are called to have our eyes on and activity based on heavenly/spirit weapons.
history shows many times where God intervenes to destroy by angelic or earthly means Such as Storms or the like ungodly armies.
Hearing and obeying the spirit and loving and forgiving is the (best) and long term generational methods of impacting our enemies children.
Guns and bombs just reinforces hate and violence cycle.
killing is our last alternative and shows how we have been deficient in praying and loving in our previous generation.

 

[republicanchick]

The more we pray and the more we love both God and others the more God moves on our behalf and responds to our spirit led and biblically motivated prayers. This puts into play God being our shield and protector. It also puts into play God moving the heart of the/king or leader.
We are not to (mainly) focus on using earthly weapons but instead are called to have our eyes on and activity based on heavenly/spirit weapons.
history shows many times where God intervenes to destroy by angelic or earthly means Such as Storms or the like ungodly armies.
Hearing and obeying the spirit and loving and forgiving is the (best) and long term generational methods of impacting our enemies children.
Guns and bombs just reinforces hate and violence cycle.
killing is our last alternative and shows how we have been deficient in praying and loving in our previous generation.

there is truth in what u say

but the ISIL doesn't respond to negotiations.. They are the ones being barbaric and killing people right and left, even children

how does one negotiate w/ someone like that? got any suggestions for the US ?

 

[Rusha]

exactly

so you anti-Catholics can quit complaining about the Crusades already

unless you want to be Muslims (?)... :mario:

The Crusades were necessary to defeat Islam?

 

[Word based mystic]

republican chick. Since you asked what we as the U.S. can do.
we shift slightly to a different discussion.

the Government we are a part of is the government we pray for and influence with votes and letters.

praying that God would guide the heart of our leaders and president is a good start.

they do not use the sword in vain in the administration of justice and the defense of our country.

I am ex military. U.S. navy hospital corpsman.
Being directed in war by government that is displaying a desire to defend and rescue those that are helpless, needy, weak. Is a conscientious issue that you are led by the situation at hand.

If my government wanted to go invade hawaii just to obtain land and expand it's power I would object in every way I could.
By the way we did take over hawaii in that fashion.
If ww1 or 2 came about i would probably not only join but may take an active weapon role not just a medic. But even here the prayer and Love for the enemy would still be primary. Sadness would follow.
The story and movie of sgt york would be a good guide for me in that case.
Obeying the governmental authorities in these types of situations would be fluid and agreeable to scripture and God would shelter my psyche and conscience for hard situations.

 

[republicanchick]

republican chick. Since you asked what we as the U.S. can do.
we shift slightly to a different discussion.

the Government we are a part of is the government we pray for and influence with votes and letters.

praying that God would guide the heart of our leaders and president is a good start.

they do not use the sword in vain in the administration of justice and the defense of our country.

I am ex military. U.S. navy hospital corpsman.
Being directed in war by government that is displaying a desire to defend and rescue those that are helpless, needy, weak. Is a conscientious issue that you are led by the situation at hand.

If my government wanted to go invade hawaii just to obtain land and expand it's power I would object in every way I could.
By the way we did take over hawaii in that fashion.
If ww1 or 2 came about i would probably not only join but may take an active weapon role not just a medic. But even here the prayer and Love for the enemy would still be primary. Sadness would follow.
The story and movie of sgt york would be a good guide for me in that case.
Obeying the governmental authorities in these types of situations would be fluid and agreeable to scripture and God would shelter my psyche and conscience for hard situations.

thank you for your Service to Our Country.

I love my enemy (uh... about as well as can be expected.. might need 2 work on that some..)

but again, ISIL doesn't seem open to what we normally refer to as Negotiations..

wha happened w/ that pilot they were going to exchange for the nut job suicide bombing b... uh... female?



+

 

[PureX]

We must hate that which is evil and that means, by extension, that we must fight evil with all of our might.

The problem, though, is that we were never given the knowledge of good and evil. We just assumed it unto ourselves. That was and still is man's original sin. So every time we pass judgment based on our own limited and self-centered understanding, we are playing at being God, because we really do think we are God's equals. Just as the old Bible story says. And the result is that we have lived for centuries now, fighting with each other, and with all of creation itself, as we keep trying to "correct it" according to our own selfish delusions about what is right and wrong.

And most of the time, it is our religion that is encouraging us in this presumption to play God, and to stand in judgment of all we encounter. And in doing so, encourages us to live in enmity with each other, and with all God's creation.

I agree that we should do what we believe is right. But I think we should stop assuming that what we think is right is what God thinks is right.

Jesus did not defend himself or others from the violence and abuse of the Romans. When one of his apostles sought to use violence to defend him, he stopped him.
And Jesus clearly taught his followers to respond to their enemies with forgiveness, and kindness, not with violence.

But most of us are not willing to do that. That's a bar set too high for us. And we can either be honest about that, and accept that we fall short of perfection, or we can misrepresent Christ, and invent all sorts of exceptions and excuses for ourselves because we want to assume that what we think is right, is what God thinks is right.

And that's what I see a lot of us doing.

 

[Word based mystic]

nice post purex.
we end up doing things short of Gods desires because we don't see or enter the full understanding or experience of seeing and entering the Kingdom of God. Eternal eyes show us that Love overcomes the hate. I truly believe the more we pray and love with his Spirit leading us the less we are likely to respond or need to respond with fleshly weapons. martyrs laid a foundation for the next move of God in that area affecting the present and next generation.

 

[republicanchick]

nice post purex.
we end up doing things short of Gods desires because we don't see or enter the full understanding or experience of seeing and entering the Kingdom of God. Eternal eyes show us that Love overcomes the hate. I truly believe the more we pray and love with his Spirit leading us the less we are likely to respond or need to respond with fleshly weapons. martyrs laid a foundation for the next move of God in that area affecting the present and next generation.

so I guess we should all board a plane to Syria and find a terrorist to hug?

you first



(watch out for that knife)



++

 

[aikido7]

stop banging your head against the wall - :bang:...

Sorry. It must be a normal reaction for me, since it feels like it's part of my DNA.

 

[PureX]

nice post purex.
we end up doing things short of Gods desires because we don't see or enter the full understanding or experience of seeing and entering the Kingdom of God. Eternal eyes show us that Love overcomes the hate. I truly believe the more we pray and love with his Spirit leading us the less we are likely to respond or need to respond with fleshly weapons. martyrs laid a foundation for the next move of God in that area affecting the present and next generation.

I truly believe that in most instances, people who become abusive, exploitive, and violent toward others have been taught to behave that way by having suffered such behavior, themselves. So that it becomes a self-perpetuating cycle. And the only way to break that cycle is to counteract it with kindness, and forgiveness, and generosity, and love. And I believe this is what Jesus was trying to teach us, and show us.

The problem for us, however, is that the "cure" doesn't work all the time, or every time. It requires persistence, and faith, and has only a cumulative effect. So that if we meet an abuser, and treat him with kindness, he may still return that kindness with violence and abuse. And this is what many of us have a very hard time accepting. We are just not willing to put ourselves in a situation where we may be deliberately inviting abuse, suffering, and possibly even death.

But I think it is the only way, in the end, for we humans to ultimately overcome the evil that lurks within us and among us. That's the message of Christ, and the challenge of the cross, and it's a very difficult one for us to rise to.

 

[aikido7]

I truly believe that in most instances, people who become abusive, exploitive, and violent toward others have been taught to behave that way by having suffered such behavior, themselves. So that it becomes a self-perpetuating cycle. And the only way to break that cycle is to counteract it with kindness, and forgiveness, and generosity, and love. And I believe this is what Jesus was trying to tach us, and show us.

The problem for us, is, that the "cure" doesn't work all the time, every time. It requires persistence, and faith, and has a cumulative effect. So that if we meet an abuser, and treat him with kindness, he may still return that kindness with violent abuse. And this is what any of us has a very hard time accepting. We are just not willing to put ourselves in a situation where we may be deliberately inviting abuse, suffering, and possibly even death.

But I think it is the only way, in the end, for we humans to ultimately overcome the evil that lurks within and among us. That's the message of Christ, and it's a very difficult one for us to rise to.

Having been both a student of nonviolence and Jesus of Nazareth, I have realized there are many, many more alternatives to conflict rather than just giving in passively or fighting back aggressively.

I cannot always tell what that "Third Way" will be, but I can certainly tell you what it is not:

It is not giving in and it is not fighting back.

I have come to the conclusion that every human action has a positive intention to be found behind that action. So once that intention is identified, you can easily come up with many functional ways to EXPRESS that underlying good intention.

Once we can start to connect with our opponent in a way that recognizes what is alive in him or her, the hard work is over.

 

[resodko]

meanwhile, islam is chopping off heads and selling little girls into sexual slavery

 

[PureX]

Having been both a student of nonviolence and Jesus of Nazareth, I have realized there are many, many more alternatives to conflict rather than just giving in passively or fighting back aggressively.

I cannot always tell what that "Third Way" will be, but I can certainly tell you what it is not:

It is not giving in and it is not fighting back.

I have come to the conclusion that every human action has a positive intention to be found behind that action. So once that intention is identified, you can easily come up with many functional ways to EXPRESS that underlying good intention.

Once we can start to connect with our opponent in a way that recognizes what is alive in him or her, the hard work is over.

But you are talking about specific practical responses to specific instances of aggression. Ideology can't address that, because ideology is based on an assumption of universal goals and principals.

The goal is not to respond to violence with violence. The principal is that violence begets more violence, which is why the goal is to avoid it. Unfortunately, this tells us nothing about what to do in a specific instance.

 

[rainee]

I apologize in advance for what I am hopefully going to say clearly.
I have hesitated and hesitated posting what I think.
Firstly because everyone has an opinion, and secondly many have made excellent points without me interfering. And thirdly even those I cannot agree with have made food for thought. So well there ya go. Yet your gonna get mho anyway.

They are criminals. That whole thing about terrorists being another word for someone else's freedom fighters is - well - you know - dookie doo.

You know who they really are like? Jesse James and the gangs like that.

After the Civil War some of the young men who had been on the losing side were
angry and feeling displaced.

So they said that was why they became outlaws.

Now the reason they supposedly had for their bad behavior was actually understood and felt by many who did not do any killing or robbing.

So these outlaws were like heroes - or at least not condemned soundly.

The reason (or excuse) over shadowed what they really were and what they really were doing.

So do not love them I say anymore than you would love any one who kills and robs and steals and harms. Put them to death.

 

[This Charming Manc]

So what do you do with Jesus teaching to love you enemies?

Do you believe in grace?

How does that work its way into this problem?

I apologize in advance for what I am hopefully going to say clearly.
I have hesitated and hesitated posting what I think.
Firstly because everyone has an opinion, and secondly many have made excellent points without me interfering. And thirdly even those I cannot agree with have made food for thought. So well there ya go. Yet your gonna get mho anyway.

They are criminals. That whole thing about terrorists being another word for someone else's freedom fighters is - well - you know - dookie doo.

You know who they really are like? Jesse James and the gangs like that.

After the Civil War some of the young men who had been on the losing side were
angry and feeling displaced.

So they said that was why they became outlaws.

Now the reason they supposedly had for their bad behavior was actually understood and felt by many who did not do any killing or robbing.

So these outlaws were like heroes - or at least not condemned soundly.

The reason (or excuse) over shadowed what they really were and what they really were doing.

So do not love them I say anymore than you would love any one who kills and robs and steals and harms. Put them to death.

 

[rainee]

Oh and ps about the Crusades - or the Inquisition - or the Salem Witch Hunts for that matter - these were examples imho
of how a similar message went out that kept people from easily judging what was really happening.

And - powerful people and/or governments were able to get involved and did use the message to deceive and achieve their own greedy wicked goals.

 

[rainee]

So what do you do with Jesus teaching to love you enemies?

Do you believe in grace?

How does that work its way into this problem?

Hi there, TCM!
How are you?

Yes I do believe in Gods grace!
And I believe I do have to love my enemies - are you surprised to hear me say that?

But but but
when they do evil according to God's word it has to be called evil.
From there we people have to decide if it is an evil requiring death.

But I don't like religion being used - even when it is not my religion, yes? So I have to step up and call their whole stupid angry evil mess what I think it is - worthy of death.

 

[Lexington'96]

How are the Al Qaeda and ISIS terrorists any worse than Saul of Tarsus, who had Christians killed before he was converted?

 

[Town Heretic]

How are the Al Qaeda and ISIS terrorists any worse than Saul of Tarsus, who had Christians killed before he was converted?

Does anyone praise and celebrate Saul of Tarsus? Otherwise I'm not sure what the point is...are you suggesting we abstain from impeding them in their work on the odd chance they'll take a side trip to Damascus one of these days? :idunno: