Militarized Police

[journey]

You shouldn't lump me in with the rest of them. Christ's Word is a moderate compared to me (No offense CW). She (and I assume THall and Oathkeepers as well) just want to go back to the Constitution. They still believe that there is such thing as a "good cop." I want to abolish the State entirely, and I think cops are evil by definition.

You're a real piece of work. Again, I give thanks that you're not running anything. Anarchy is ugly.

 

[Christian Liberty]

You're a real piece of work. Again, I give thanks that you're not running anything. Anarchy is ugly.

I don't WANT to "run" anything. I'm an anarcho-capitalist. I'm against the entire idea of "government" as you think of it. I believe in freedom. I believe in God's law, and I reject the concept of human rulers, except those that people voluntarily consent to through market interactions.

I know God has some reason for putting snarky people like you in my life. I'll pray and ask him what it is. It certainly isn't to teach me anything. If it were, you'd use rational arguments rather than personal attacks all of the time.

 

[journey]

I don't WANT to "run" anything. I'm an anarcho-capitalist. I'm against the entire idea of "government" as you think of it. I believe in freedom. I believe in God's law, and I reject the concept of human rulers, except those that people voluntarily consent to through market interactions.

I know God has some reason for putting snarky people like you in my life. I'll pray and ask him what it is. It certainly isn't to teach me anything. If it were, you'd use rational arguments rather than personal attacks all of the time.

Someone needs to share common sense with you because you are seriously lacking.

 

[The Barbarian]

I don't WANT to "run" anything. I'm an anarcho-capitalist. I'm against the entire idea of "government" as you think of it.

I am attracted to that idea, but there's a problem. Human nature intervenes. If you abolish government, someone will institute a new one. It might be organized crime, or a business syndicate, or what have you, but count on it, someone will move into that power vacuum and start telling people what to do.

The market can only exist if there's a strong government available to stop people from interfering with it.

Ironic, um?

 

[TomO]

I am attracted to that idea, but there's a problem. Human nature intervenes. If you abolish government, someone will institute a new one. It might be organized crime, or a business syndicate, or what have you, but count on it, someone will move into that power vacuum and start telling people what to do.

The market can only exist if there's a strong government available to stop people from interfering with it.

Ironic, um?

...And when government is doing exactly what you fear organized crime, or a business syndicate would do? lain:

 

[The Barbarian]

..And when government is doing exactly what you fear organized crime, or a business syndicate would do?

Then we have become too lax with it. When legislators feel safe in doing things they know we don't want them to do, to gerrymander districts to thwart the will of the voters, to pass laws we don't want, to discourage voting, and to produce a maze of rules that we can't understand, we have essentially let them rule us.

And what usually happens, is business and other groups develop alliances with such governments to rule us.

Which is what we have today. The answer is not to remove government, but to remove the layers of control they put over us. We need to watch government, large businesses, and large interest groups very closely. And we need to keep them from watching us without a demonstrated need to do so.

The reason the peasants always side with a strong central government over the local magnates is that they know a strong central government is less likely to abuse them.

 

[Christ's Word]

Then we have become too lax with it. When legislators feel safe in doing things they know we don't want them to do, to gerrymander districts to thwart the will of the voters, to pass laws we don't want, to discourage voting, and to produce a maze of rules that we can't understand, we have essentially let them rule us.

And what usually happens, is business and other groups develop alliances with such governments to rule us.

Which is what we have today. The answer is not to remove government, but to remove the layers of control they put over us. We need to watch government, large businesses, and large interest groups very closely. And we need to keep them from watching us without a demonstrated need to do so.

The reason the peasants always side with a strong central government over the local magnates is that they know a strong central government is less likely to abuse them.

I was with you right up to the last sentence..... The reason the peasants side with the strong central government is because it has a larger budget of stolen money to give them free stuff. Today we call it income redistribution, back in the day we called it stealing.

 

[TomO]

The reason the peasants always side with a strong central government over the local magnates is that they know a strong central government is less likely to abuse them.

Yeah...That's kind of my problem. I wasn't raised to be a Commoner. lain:

 

[TomO]

I was with you right up to the last sentence..... The reason the peasants side with the strong central government is because it has a larger budget of stolen money to give them free stuff. Today we call it income redistribution, back in the day we called it stealing.

I always preferred the term "Bread and Circuses".

 

[Christ's Word]

Don't use the Constitution against the government it protects,

You are so stupid, you think the Constitution is to protect Government, THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM. The Constitution is to limit Government, and protect the people from government. Once again you have it backwards. You really need to educate yourself.

 

[IMJerusha]

You are so stupid, you think the Constitution is to protect Government, THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM. The Constitution is to limit Government, and protect the people from government. Once again you have it backwards. You really need to educate yourself.

Thank you for those Oooooo so loving words that have nothing to do with Yeshua. :chuckle:

You're right!....ehrm, sort of. The Constitution is to protect the people BUT, and this is where you and others such as Oathkeepers flop, the Government is of the people, by the people and for the people. Ya'll seem so desperate to see it perish from the earth.

 

[IMJerusha]

That experiment has actually been tried...

There is nothing worse than a corrupt police officer -- just look at the comment section under any taser video on YouTube. Unfortunately for the citizens of the country of Georgia, that was pretty much the only flavor their traffic cops came in. In 2004, things had gotten so bad that the newly elected President Mikheil Saakashvili made it his mission to stop the police from harassing his people.

Saakashvili didn't mess around, either. He fired all the heads of law enforcement and threatened that any traffic cop caught harassing civilians, taking bribes or generally behaving all uppity would be fired or arrested. The police force scoffed at the attempts of this puny "president" person and behaved exactly like they always had, confident that Saakashvili wouldn't touch them. So, the very next day after this announcement, when a whopping 15,000 cops were caught taking bribes, Saakashvili fired every single one of them.

Then, a couple of weeks later, another 15,000 police officers were caught participating in shenanigans. So he fired them, too. With 30,000 corrupt officers freshly in the unemployment line, Saakashvili had finally succeeded. The police department was finally clean! Huzzah! Only, there was one little problem. There were no traffic cops left...

Instead of indulging in a nationwide game of bumper cars, everything went just fine -- in fact, even better than normal. And we don't mean that the citizens held themselves together for a couple of days until new cops could be hired. They were without police for three freaking months. And it was fine.

Saakashvili's administration quickly realized this was because it had been the cops causing most of the trouble all along. A remnant from the Soviet era, they'd treated the roads as their personal piggy bank, administering their very own brand of expensive justice at will and causing mob-style chaos as they did. When they were taken out of the equation, not even a hint of disorder was left because they had been the disorder.
http://www.cracked.com/article_19489_5-terrible-ideas-that-solved-huge-global-problems.html

O.K. so we don't have that level of omerta among cops in our country. But I notice, for example, that in Omaha, Nebraska, large number of cops went on a rampage in a black neighborhood, beating civilians entering a house with no warrant, and seeking out cell phones to destroy the evidence.

Not all of them, of course, but not one of the "good cops" turned in the criminals. Unfortuately for the criminals, there was another camera in the house across the street that caught the whole thing.

And of course because of that video, the crooks were indicted instead of their intended victims. But apparently, not one of the police who stood by and later declined to turn in the crooked cops, were disciplined at all. The chief more or less concluded "that's what they do, and I can't do anything about it."

Now YOU'RE mixing apples with oranges. You can't compare European law enforcement with American. They operate under a whole different government system.

 

[THall]

Thank you for those Oooooo so loving words that have nothing to do with Yeshua. :chuckle:

You're right!....ehrm, sort of. The Constitution is to protect the people BUT, and this is where you and others such as Oathkeepers flop, the Government is of the people, by the people and for the people. Ya'll seem so desperate to see it perish from the earth.

If you want to talk about Yeshua,
do it in a religious forum.
This forum is about Militarized Police
and a Federal Government out of
control.

Yet you continue to lie about
Oathkeepers, who want the
government bureaucrats to
follow their own laws, and for
those in the military and law
enforcement to keep their oath
to defend the Constitution, the
supreme law of the United States.

 

[IMJerusha]

If you want to talk about Yeshua,
do it in a religious forum.
This forum is about Militarized Police
and a Federal Government out of
control.

Yet you continue to lie about
Oathkeepers, who want the
government bureaucrats to
follow their own laws, and for
those in the military and law
enforcement to keep their oath
to defend the Constitution, the
supreme law of the United States.

Switchoff!

Dude, if Yeshua doesn't rule your politic, you're messed up. And I think that's what I've been saying all along...

"One nation, under God..." Well, shuckie dern!

 

[Christian Liberty]

I am attracted to that idea, but there's a problem. Human nature intervenes. If you abolish government, someone will institute a new one. It might be organized crime, or a business syndicate, or what have you, but count on it, someone will move into that power vacuum and start telling people what to do.

The market can only exist if there's a strong government available to stop people from interfering with it.

Ironic, um?

It would be ironic if it was actually true. For instance, see here:

http://mises.org/daily/2317

Mind you, it wasn't a total lack of State. It wasn't totally ideal. But its a clear picture of the difference between free-market capitalists and crony capitalists, how useful the former group is, and how destructive the latter group is.

I'll acknowledge that anarcho-capitalism cannot actually work unless you have a vigilant people who are willing to do what they have to do to protect their liberty and ensure that a new State doesn't form. That doesn't mean that the State is moral in any sense. The difficulties of preventing a new State from forming don't make the existence of any State immoral.

Keep in mind that, although there is a little bit of controversy about this, libertarianism would generally hold (as would I) that corporations aren't people and that limited liability is not a just concept. Which would be a big check on large corporations somehow becoming new governments.

Thank you for those Oooooo so loving words that have nothing to do with Yeshua. :chuckle:

You're right!....ehrm, sort of. The Constitution is to protect the people BUT, and this is where you and others such as Oathkeepers flop, the Government is of the people, by the people and for the people. Ya'll seem so desperate to see it perish from the earth.

I'm the only one who wants to completely remove it in this thread (unless Drbrumley posted and I missed it), the rest of the people here just want to shrink it back to a sane size rather than bowing before it like you do.

Calling you stupid may have been mean, but frankly, you're showing such a lack of reading comprehension in this thread that I can't blame them. The fact that you don't believe in the Constitution is just blatantly obvious here. And for the record, no, I don't either, nor have I ever claimed to be. You are claiming to be, which is ridiculous. Your loyalty is to the Feds, and to the police who oppress us.

Really, I think it would be a better use of my time to just debate CW and Thall on whether police actually have any role in a free and Biblical society. That might actually be a constructive debate, if either or both of them are interested. This debate with you is just a waste... its impossible to convince a liberal (neocons also count as liberals) that the State is anything but an absolutely divinely ordained good.

Switchoff!

Dude, if Yeshua doesn't rule your politic, you're messed up. And I think that's what I've been saying all along...

"One nation, under God..." Well, shuckie dern!

Is Matthew 20:25 in your Bible?

 

[TomO]

Really, I think it would be a better use of my time to just debate CW and Thall on whether police actually have any role in a free and Biblical society. That might actually be a constructive debate, if either or both of them are interested. This debate with you is just a waste... its impossible to convince a liberal (neocons also count as liberals) that the State is anything but an absolutely divinely ordained good.
Is Matthew 20:25 in your Bible?

:nono: I wouldn't be quick to toss around the "Liberal" moniker on this one. I don't think that IMJerusha really counts as a "Liberal" in any-ones sense of the word.

Remember...Authoritarians come in both Left and Right Wing packages. lain:

 

[THall]

Switchoff!

Dude, if Yeshua doesn't rule your politic, you're messed up. And I think that's what I've been saying all along...

"One nation, under God..." Well, shuckie dern!

If you think this nation
is run by Godly men
you are crazier than
any of us thought.

Why don't you go play
with a pie, or something
else you understand.

 

[Christian Liberty]

:nono: I wouldn't be quick to toss around the "Liberal" moniker on this one. I don't think that IMJerusha really counts as a "Liberal" in any-ones sense of the word.

Remember...Authoritarians come in both Left and Right Wing packages. lain:

The left and right wings don't really exist. The actual spectrum is libertarian v authoritarian. That said, you are right. I should have used "authoritarian" in my post rather than "liberal."

 

[THall]

:nono: I wouldn't be quick to toss around the "Liberal" moniker on this one. I don't think that IMJerusha really counts as a "Liberal" in any-ones sense of the word.

Remember...Authoritarians come in both Left and Right Wing packages. lain:

Yep, IMJ has to be a statist.
Her pathetic, insecure world
would come crashing down
without the state protecting
her, at least in her own mind,
as small as that place might be.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Yep, IMJ has to be a statist.
Her pathetic, insecure world
would come crashing down
without the state protecting
her, at least in her own mind,
as small as that place might be.

Can you still have a problem with anarcho-capitalism after posting this?