May I ask...

Hoping

Well-known member
Banned
Jesus recited some commandments and included one of the summaries of the law
Yes, and those commandments are part and parcel of loving one's neighbor as one's self.
Why list 9 when 2 will do?
(Matthew 19:17-19) [17] And He said to him, Why do you call Me good? There is none good but one, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments
[18] He said to Him, Which? Jesus said, You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not bear false witness, [19] honor your father and mother, and, you shall love your neighbor as yourself.
so no change before the Mid Acts Dispensation
as you contend but can't show
Didn't you read what you posted?
"If you want to enter into life, love your neighbor as you love yourself !"
and Jesus was sent only to Jews as he sent his disciples only to Jews
You keep saying that like He never served a non-Jew who had faith.
I would not expect Jesus to tell his audience of Jews to get circumcised or not to eat bacon , as they were circumcised and didn't eat bacon
Didn't we already go through this?
that's not a change dispensation tho ,
Elijah and Elisha went to gentiles in the old covenant too , didn't change the covenant God had with Israel
It include Gentiles in the mix.
Isn't that a change?
(Luke 4:25-27) [25] But I tell you truly, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elijah, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land. [26] But Elijah was not sent to any of them, except to Zarephath, a city of Sidon, to a woman, a widow. [27] And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Elisha the prophet, and none of them was cleansed except Naaman the Syrian.
God was helping non-Jews way back when.
Why should it be any different while Jesus was here?
(Acts 10:28) And he said to them, You know that it is an unlawful thing for a man, a Jew to keep company with or to come near to one of another nation. But God has shown me not to call any man common or unclean
There is more of the change.
yes , over at the time of the Mid Acts Dispensation and not before .
do have any evidence or just your belief as the authority ?
You keep posting it.
yes , now for a little while longer it is available to everyone
(Romans 11:25) For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, lest you should be wise within yourselves; that blindness in part has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the nations has comes in.
It started at the
Mid Acts Dispensation
It started when Jesus quit holding all the Law as sacred.
Dispensation , house rules explains the "good news" and the change in dispensation was by God , not by man
3622 oikonomia oy-kon-om-ee'-ah from 3623; administration (of a household or estate); specially, a (religious) "economy":
Nice .
Peter separated himself from the gentiles because he caved in to peer pressure from the circumcision group from James who still thought it unlawful to eat with gentiles
(Galatians 2:11-12) [11] But when Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was to be blamed. [12] For before some came from James, he ate with the nations. But when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those of the circumcision.
But we both know that the rules had changed.
there was a house rules \ dispensation change that happened at mid acts
It allowed you to be saved apart from Israel
Apart from unbelieving Israel.
All believers are one, in Christ.
You're still hung up on works , we all have works but the Mid Acts Dispensation changed it to the equivalent of Abraham's 1st covenant
Not circumcision...or dietary rules, or sabbath keeping, or feast keeping, or tithing, or anything but love God and love your neighbor as your self.
Romans 11:6) But if by grace, then it is no more of works; otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it is of works, then it is no more of grace; otherwise work is no more work.
The Law has passed.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Gal 3:11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith."
Gal 3:12 But the law is not of faith, rather "The one who does them shall live by them."
I find it interesting that Jesus once said..."Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." (Matt 23:23)
Faith is one of the weightier matters of the Law !

As the righteous shall live by faith, by what are the sinners living?
Not faith.
Sinners are still under the auspices of the Law.
I praise Jesus Christ for making it possible to be free of the Law and ,more importantly, free from sinning.
 

Hoping

Well-known member
Banned
Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
Handy words to use when dealing with those who are very anti-Law.
However, that Law has been condensed to just two things...Love God with all your heart, strength, soul, and might, and Love your neighbor as you love yourself.
Our behavior will tell others of our love, or lack of it.
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
Yes, and those commandments are part and parcel of loving one's neighbor as one's self.
Why list 9 when 2 will do?

Didn't you read what you posted?
"If you want to enter into life, love your neighbor as you love yourself !" Jesus already changed them while He lived among the Jews.
Jesus said : keep the commandments , all of them

you said Jesus changed the commandments , he did not

(Matthew 19:17-19) [17] And He said to him, Why do you call Me good? There is none good but one, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments
[18] He said to Him, Which? Jesus said, You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not bear false witness, [19] honor your father and mother, and, you shall love your neighbor as yourself.
so no change before the Mid Acts Dispensation
as you contend but can't show

sinners are still under the law , the unchanged law and Jesus summarizing of the law didn't change anything




You keep saying that like He never served a non-Jew who had faith.
you want to make "the exceptions" the rule ,

the exceptions didn't change who Jesus was sent to or who Jesus sent the 12 to

(Matthew 15:24) But He answered and said, I am not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


(Matthew 10:5-6) [5] Jesus sent out these twelve, commanding them, saying, Do not go into the way of the nations, and do not enter into any city of the Samaritans. [6] But rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Where do you see Him ever telling a man to get circumcised? Or eat no bacon? Or keep the feasts,...to be saved?

Didn't we already go through this?
I would not expect Jesus to tell his audience of Jews to get circumcised or not to eat bacon , as they were circumcised and didn't eat bacon
but if Jesus did away with circumcision and the law , you would quote that verse that says exactly that



It include Gentiles in the mix.
Isn't that a change?

God was helping non-Jews way back when.
Why should it be any different while Jesus was here?
you want to make "the exceptions" the rule ,
There is more of the change.

You keep posting it.
yes , over at the time of the Mid Acts Dispensation and not before .
do have any evidence or just your belief as the authority ?

so that's a NO from your position
It started when Jesus quit holding all the Law as sacred.
are you reading from the book of mormon ?
need chapter and verse from the bible that states "Jesus quit holding all the Law as sacred ",

guess that will be a No from you again

(Romans 3:31) Do we then make the Law void through faith? Let it not be! But we establish the Law.
Peter separated himself from the gentiles because he caved in to peer pressure from the circumcision group from James who still thought it unlawful to eat with gentiles
(Galatians 2:11-12) [11] But when Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was to be blamed. [12] For before some came from James, he ate with the nations. But when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those of the circumcision.


Nice .

But we both know that the rules had changed.
with the Mid Acts Dispensation and not before

gentiles the uncircumcised saved apart from Israel
(Romans 11:25) For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, lest you should be wise within yourselves; that blindness in part has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the nations has comes in.
Apart from unbelieving Israel.
All believers are one, in Christ.
apart from Israel
do you see all the Rabbis spreading the Gospel

one gospel to the gentiles,

available to Jews but not through the Jews

as was the gospel that Jesus preached to the Jews only
You're still hung up on works , we all have works but the Mid Acts Dispensation changed it to the equivalent of Abraham's 1st covenant

Not circumcision...or dietary rules, or sabbath keeping, or feast keeping, or tithing, or anything but love God and love your neighbor as your self.

The Law has passed.
you say the law has passed but even you don't believe that 👇

"It is permanent, until you"
"commit adultery or steal from work"
"murder"

"drug abuse or child molesting"
fail to "Helping the old lady across the street"
"Stealing from the blind"



I find it interesting that Jesus once said..."Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." (Matt 23:23)
Faith is one of the weightier matters of the Law !

As the righteous shall live by faith, by what are the sinners living?
Not faith.
Sinners are still under the auspices of the Law.
I praise Jesus Christ for making it possible to be free of the Law and ,more importantly, free from sinning.
and Jesus said : these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone
faith + works , Abraham's 2nd covenant

faith no works , Abraham's 1st covenant
Gal 3:12 But the Law is not of faith; but, "The man who does these things shall live in them."
Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law,

Gal3:14 so that the blessing of Abraham might be to the nations in Jesus Christ, and that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
 

Hoping

Well-known member
Banned
Jesus said : keep the commandments , all of them
"All of them" are two.
Love God and love your neighbor.
you said Jesus changed the commandments , he did not
Did He mention dietary rules to be saved?
Or circumcision?
No.
(Matthew 19:17-19) [17] And He said to him, Why do you call Me good? There is none good but one, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments
[18] He said to Him, Which? Jesus said, You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not bear false witness, [19] honor your father and mother, and, you shall love your neighbor as yourself.
so no change before the Mid Acts Dispensation as you contend but can't show
Don't all of the things Jesus mention fit into love your neighbor as you love yourself?
inners are still under the law ,
Got that right.
the unchanged law and Jesus summarizing of the law didn't change anything.
I disagree.
you want to make "the exceptions" the rule ,
the exceptions didn't change who Jesus was sent to or who Jesus sent the 12 to
(Matthew 15:24) But He answered and said, I am not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel
(Matthew 10:5-6) [5] Jesus sent out these twelve, commanding them, saying, Do not go into the way of the nations, and do not enter into any city of the Samaritans. [6] But rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel
I would not expect Jesus to tell his audience of Jews to get circumcised or not to eat bacon , as they were circumcised and didn't eat bacon
but if Jesus did away with circumcision and the law , you would quote that verse that says exactly tha
you want to make "the exceptions" the rule ,
yes , over at the time of the Mid Acts Dispensation and not before .
do have any evidence or just your belief as the authority ?
so that's a NO from your position
are you reading from the book of mormon ?
need chapter and verse from the bible that states "Jesus quit holding all the Law as sacred ",
guess that will be a No from you again

(Romans 3:31) Do we then make the Law void through faith? Let it not be! But we establish the Law.
That is correct.
The Law is totally covered by "loving God and loving our neighbors".
with the Mid Acts Dispensation and not before
gentiles the uncircumcised saved apart from Israel
(Romans 11:25) For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, lest you should be wise within yourselves; that blindness in part has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the nations has comes in.

apart from Israel
do you see all the Rabbis spreading the Gospel
The unbelieving won't spread a gospel of Christ.
one gospel to the gentiles,
available to Jews but not through the Jews
as was the gospel that Jesus preached to the Jews only
you say the law has passed but even you don't believe that
"It is permanent, until you"
"commit adultery or steal from work"
"murder"
"drug abuse or child molesting"
fail to "Helping the old lady across the street"
"Stealing from the blind"
You are welcome to adhere to as much of the OT Law of Moses as you wish, and as long as you love God with all your heart, strength, soul, and mind, and love your neighbors as you love yourself, with an enduring faith, you will be saved on the last day.
and Jesus said : these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone
faith + works , Abraham's 2nd covenant
faith no works , Abraham's 1st covenant
Gal 3:12 But the Law is not of faith; but, "The man who does these things shall live in them."
Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law,
Gal3:14 so that the blessing of Abraham might be to the nations in Jesus Christ, and that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Obeying the Law of Moses without faith was untenable.
Obeying the Law of Christ with faith is a naturally occurring facet of rebirth from God's seed..
 

Hoping

Well-known member
Banned
What feast is he talking about here Hoping?
I don't know what you refer to?
How does it fit in with loving God and loving your neighbor?
This feast is the one of communion with the body and blood of Christ, using bread and wine.
If we love God and our neighbor, we will be qualified to share in the bread and wine of communion.
Sinners cannot partake, as it is written..."For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep." (1 Cor 11:26-30)
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
"All of them" are two.
Love God and love your neighbor.

Did He mention dietary rules to be saved?
Or circumcision?
No.
Peter knew the law didn't change
as he kept the dietary law too
until that Mid Acts Dispensation that actually changed the law
but hey don't let the truth get in the way of your fiction

(Acts 10:14) But Peter said, Not so, Lord, for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean
(Matthew 19:17-19) [17] And He said to him, Why do you call Me good? There is none good but one, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments
[18] He said to Him, Which? Jesus said, You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not bear false witness, [19] honor your father and mother, and, you shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Don't all of the things Jesus mention fit into love your neighbor as you love yourself?
the summary is the Law

and hey you love the Law 👇


"It is permanent, until you"
"commit adultery or steal from work"
"murder"

"drug abuse or child molesting"
fail to "Helping the old lady across the street"
"Stealing from the blind"

sinners are still under the law ,
Got that right.
so the Law still exist and you want Christians under it ( to see above 👆)

the unchanged law and Jesus summarizing of the law didn't change anything.

I disagree.
you disagree against the evidence

a summary of a book is not the whole book

but if Jesus did away with circumcision and the law , you would quote that verse that says exactly that

That is correct.
The Law is totally covered by "loving God and loving our neighbors".
you keep quoting the Law summarized
like it changed something but can't show it
give an answer of what you believe and why believe it
rules changed with the Mid Acts Dispensation and not before
gentiles \ uncircumcised saved apart from Israel
(Romans 11:25) For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, lest you should be wise within yourselves; that blindness in part has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the nations has comes in.

apart from Israel
do you see all the Rabbis spreading the Gospel


The unbelieving won't spread a gospel of Christ.
that's not true either
but all you have is non answers
You are welcome to adhere to as much of the OT Law of Moses as you wish, and as long as you love God with all your heart, strength, soul, and mind, and love your neighbors as you love yourself, with an enduring faith, you will be saved on the last day.

Obeying the Law of Moses without faith was untenable.
Obeying the Law of Christ with faith is a naturally occurring facet of rebirth from God's seed..
you can have your works under the Law salvation

"It is permanent, until you"
"commit adultery or steal from work"
"murder"

"drug abuse or child molesting"
fail to "Helping the old lady across the street"
"Stealing from the blind"



I will stick with faith

Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness."
(Romans 1:17) For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith, as it is written, "The just shall live by faith.

faith no works , Abraham's 1st covenant
Gal 3:12 But the Law is not of faith; but, "The man who does these things shall live in them."
Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law,

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Gal3:14 so that the blessing of Abraham might be to the nations in Jesus Christ, and that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
 

Hoping

Well-known member
Banned
Peter knew the law didn't change
as he kept the dietary law too
until that Mid Acts Dispensation that actually changed the law
but hey don't let the truth get in the way of your fiction
Isn't it the truth that "the voice" told Peter about the dietary rules being rescinded during Peter's vision in Acts 10 ?
(Acts 10:14) But Peter said, Not so, Lord, for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean
The end of the old ways.
the summary is the Law
and hey you love the Law
I love the ability to accomplish the summary of the Law.
"It is permanent, until you"
"commit adultery or steal from work"
"murder"
"drug abuse or child molesting"
fail to "Helping the old lady across the street"
"Stealing from the blind"
Do you actually think those kind of people will be granted eternal life on the last day?
I know they won't be offered any such thing.
so the Law still exist and you want Christians under it ( to see above 👆)
The summary of the Law will exist unto eternity.
you disagree against the evidence
I was free from that point, from circumcision and dietary rules.
Weren't you?
Jesus said what was important, but you seem to think He didn't say it.
Why?
a summary of a book is not the whole book
It is a summary of a whole book.
you keep quoting the Law summarized
like it changed something but can't show it
give an answer of what you believe and why believe it
It changed everything.
The man asked..."Master, which is the great commandment in the law"? (Matt 22:36)
Jesus answered..."Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (Matt 22:37-40)
Not a mention of circumcision or dietary rules !
that's not true either
but all you have is non answers
In a way I do agree with you.
I have seen a lot of unbelievers preaching the gospel of Christ.
But your prior post was about Rabbi's of Jesus' time.
They did not preach the gospel of Christ Jesus.
you can have your works under the Law salvation
"It is permanent, until you"
"commit adultery or steal from work"
"murder"
"drug abuse or child molesting"
fail to "Helping the old lady across the street"
"Stealing from the blind"
Thank you, though I thank God in the name of Jesus Christ for it everyday already.
If you think adulterers and drug abusers will inherit eternal life, you should read what Paul thinks of that idea in Gal 5..."Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Gal 5:19-21)

I don't know why you deny that truth.
I will stick with faith
Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness."
(Romans 1:17) For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith, as it is written, "The just shall live by faith.
faith no works , Abraham's 1st covenant
Gal 3:12 But the Law is not of faith; but, "The man who does these things shall live in them."
Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Gal3:14 so that the blessing of Abraham might be to the nations in Jesus Christ, and that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
As long as your faith is based on loving God with all your might and mind...and loving your neighbor as you love yourself, you are in good stead.
But the idea of adulterers and murders going to heaven isn't bible based.
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
Peter knew the law didn't change
as he kept the dietary law too
until that Mid Acts Dispensation that actually changed the law
but hey don't let the truth get in the way of your fiction

Isn't it the truth that "the voice" told Peter about the dietary rules being rescinded during Peter's vision in Acts 10 ?

The end of the old ways.
the change happened at Mid Acts Dispensation and not before

It is permanent, until you"
"commit adultery or steal from work"
"murder"

"drug abuse or child molesting"
fail to "Helping the old lady across the street"
"Stealing from the blind"


I love the ability to accomplish the summary of the Law.

Do you actually think those kind of people will be granted eternal life on the last day?
I know they won't be offered any such thing.
you couldn't keep the law if you life depended on it , especially since you added to it.
The summary of the Law will exist unto eternity.
thankfully ,No
I was free from that point, from circumcision and dietary rules.
Weren't you?
Jesus said what was important, but you seem to think He didn't say it.
Why?
when ?
when Jesus summarized the Law for an unrepentant sinner
if what you said were true that would make no Law for the sinner
because what you take to be a doing away with the Law he was telling the sinner to do




It is a summary of a whole book.
which is still in effect for sinners

but Thanks be to God for the Mid Acts Dispensation
(Romans 1:17) For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith, as it is written, "The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12 But the Law is not of faith; but, "The man who does these things shall live in them."
Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law,
It changed everything.
The man asked..."Master, which is the great commandment in the law"? (Matt 22:36)
Jesus answered..."Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (Matt 22:37-40)
Not a mention of circumcision or dietary rules !
Jesus said to do all that to an unrepentant sinner
and yet the law is still effect

(Romans 7:13) Then has that which is good become death to me? Let it not be! But sin, that it might appear to be sin, working death in me by that which is good; in order that sin might become exceedingly sinful by the commandment.
Thank you, though I thank God in the name of Jesus Christ for it everyday already.
If you think adulterers and drug abusers will inherit eternal life, you should read what Paul thinks of that idea in Gal 5..."Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Gal 5:19-21)

I don't know why you deny that truth.
seems you need a law to define those things .
As long as your faith is based on loving God with all your might and mind...and loving your neighbor as you love yourself, you are in good stead.
nope , by the Holy Spirit not by the law

2Co_1:22 and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee

Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 meekness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
But the idea of adulterers and murders going to heaven isn't bible based.
Paul was a murderer ,and he is in Heaven right now.
 

Hoping

Well-known member
Banned
the change happened at Mid Acts Dispensation and not before
I'ld rather give Jesus the credit instead of Paul.
Paul articulated what Jesus did very well.
you couldn't keep the law if you life depended on it , especially since you added to it.
I can keep two commandments perfectly.
Thanks to the gift of repentance.
Thanks to the death of the old man.
Thanks to rebirth from God's seed.
Thanks to the gift of the Holy Ghost.
So can you !
thankfully ,No
You don't think men will love God and their fellow saints in heaven?
I do.
when ?
when Jesus summarized the Law for an unrepentant sinner
Unrepentant sinner?
Who are you talking about?
if what you said were true that would make no Law for the sinner
because what you take to be a doing away with the Law he was telling the sinner to do
The law of Christ remains.
which is still in effect for sinners
Are you not elated that God made it possible to live without sin since the resurrection of Christ Jesus?
but Thanks be to God for the Mid Acts Dispensation
(Romans 1:17) For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith, as it is written, "The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12 But the Law is not of faith; but, "The man who does these things shall live in them."
Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law,
Thanks be to God for Jesus.
Jesus said to do all that to an unrepentant sinner
and yet the law is still effect
The Law will always apply to the unrepentant.
It was made for them, according to Paul in 1 Tim 1:9.
(Romans 7:13) Then has that which is good become death to me? Let it not be! But sin, that it might appear to be sin, working death in me by that which is good; in order that sin might become exceedingly sinful by the commandment.
seems you need a law to define those things .
Which ones do you have the question about?
nope , by the Holy Spirit not by the law
Not the Law of Moses, for sure.
If you expect to inherit eternal life without loving God and neighbor, you are lost.
2Co_1:22 and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee
Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 meekness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
Yep, the Law is for sinners only.
I hope you aren't a sinner anymore.
Paul was a murderer ,and he is in Heaven right now.
Paul didn't remain a sinner after converting to Christianity.
He had been reborn from God's seed after the destruction of his old self.
On the day of judgement. he will be among the proverbial sheep.
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
I'ld rather give Jesus the credit instead of Paul.
Paul articulated what Jesus did very well.
yes the credit goes to Jesus because Jesus gave the Mid Acts Dispensation to Paul
we call the bible the word of God even what Paul wrote
I can keep two commandments perfectly.
Thanks to the gift of repentance.
Thanks to the death of the old man.
Thanks to rebirth from God's seed.
Thanks to the gift of the Holy Ghost.
So can you !
you have already admitted to breaking the commandment by judging people on appearances
(John 7:24) Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
You don't think men will love God and their fellow saints in heaven?
I do.
not by the law , the law only leads to identifying sin
(Romans 7:13) Was then that which is good made death to me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Unrepentant sinner?
Who are you talking about?
do you not read the bible
(Matthew 19:22) But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions
when Jesus summarized the Law for an unrepentant sinner
if what you said were true that would make no Law for the sinner
because what you take to be a doing away with the Law he was telling the sinner to do


The law of Christ remains.
so now your saying sinners are not under the Law
which is still in effect for sinners

Are you not elated that God made it possible to live without sin since the resurrection of Christ Jesus?
you're not sinless
you have already admitted to breaking the commandment by judging people on appearances
(John 7:24) Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

(Romans 7:14-17) [14] For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. [15] For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. [16] If then I do that which I would not, I consent to the law that it is good. [17] Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.

Thanks be to God for the Mid Acts Dispensation
(Romans 1:17) For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith, as it is written, "The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12 But the Law is not of faith; but, "The man who does these things shall live in them."
Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law,

Thanks be to God for Jesus.
for giving Paul the Mid Acts Dispensation , absolutely
The Law will always apply to the unrepentant.
It was made for them, according to Paul in 1 Tim 1:9.
yes but again I repeat myself because what you say is wrong

when Jesus summarized the Law for an unrepentant sinner
if what you said were true that would make no Law for the sinner
because what you take to be a doing away with the Law he was telling the sinner to do


Thank you, though I thank God in the name of Jesus Christ for it everyday already.
If you think adulterers and drug abusers will inherit eternal life, you should read what Paul thinks of that idea in Gal 5..."Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Gal 5:19-21)


Which ones do you have the question about?
you said the above 👆
in order to identify those people , you need the law ,
which you now claim doesn't apply to unbelievers because Jesus summarized the law to an unrepentant man and therefore did away with the law for the unrepentant

Not the Law of Moses, for sure.
If you expect to inherit eternal life without loving God and neighbor, you are lost.
and back to works salvation , still no

Rom 4:20 No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God,
Rom 4:21 fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised.
Rom 4:22 That is why his faith was "counted to him as righteousness."
Rom 4:23 But the words "it was counted to him" were not written for his sake alone,
Rom 4:24 but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord,
Rom 4:25 who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

Yep, the Law is for sinners only.
I hope you aren't a sinner anymore.
I'm saved by grace through faith
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Paul didn't remain a sinner after converting to Christianity.
He had been reborn from God's seed after the destruction of his old self.
On the day of judgement. he will be among the proverbial sheep.
Paul did not write the following as a disembodied spirit .
(Romans 7:14-17) [14] For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. [15] For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. [16] If then I do that which I would not, I consent to the law that it is good. [17] Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.
 

Hoping

Well-known member
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yes the credit goes to Jesus because Jesus gave the Mid Acts Dispensation to Paul
we call the bible the word of God even what Paul wrote
Nice spin...
At least you are keeping Jesus somewhere in the picture.
you have already admitted to breaking the commandment by judging people on appearances
(John 7:24) Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
I have admitted that the Spiritual man judges all things, like Paul wrote in 1 Cor 2:15.
not by the law , the law only leads to identifying sin
(Romans 7:13) Was then that which is good made death to me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Correct, not by the Law.
Our love, and obedience, will be naturally occurring .
Just as it is for those reborn of God now on earth.
do you not read the bible
(Matthew 19:22) But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions
Now you are judging.
We don't know the final disposition of the man.
so now your saying sinners are not under the Law
Hardly, as the Law of Moses was made for sinners.
you're not sinless
you have already admitted to breaking the commandment by judging people on appearances
I admitted to being a Spiritual man who judges all things. (1 Cor 2:15)
(John 7:24) Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
Righteous judgement is possible, when righteous.
As you don't believe man can be righteous, the scripture may sound foreign to you.
(Romans 7:14-17) [14] For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. [15] For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. [16] If then I do that which I would not, I consent to the law that it is good. [17] Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.
Paul's narrative of life under the Law, and failing to adhere to it, is a wonderful testimony of the power of God in Paul's life after conversion.
What he was once subject to, the Law, was then in his past.
for giving Paul the Mid Acts Dispensation , absolutely
That, and so much more before that..
yes but again I repeat myself because what you say is wrong
Which part of what you say "yes" to, is wrong?
when Jesus summarized the Law for an unrepentant sinner
if what you said were true that would make no Law for the sinner
because what you take to be a doing away with the Law he was telling the sinner to do
Isn't the law of Christ important at all to you?
you said the above 👆
in order to identify those people , you need the law ,
which you now claim doesn't apply to unbelievers because Jesus summarized the law to an unrepentant man and therefore did away with the law for the unrepentant
As every precept of the Law of Moses can be in someway included in the law of Christ, your point is pointless.
and back to works salvation , still no
Rom 4:20 No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God,
Rom 4:21 fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised.
Rom 4:22 That is why his faith was "counted to him as righteousness."
Rom 4:23 But the words "it was counted to him" were not written for his sake alone,
Rom 4:24 but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord,
Rom 4:25 who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
Praise God for the presage of our faith today.
Abraham proved his faith when he was about to sacrifice Isaac.
We too can prove our faith by loving our neighbor as we love ourselves.
I'm saved by grace through faith
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
I hope you can keep saying that after the day of judgement.
Paul did not write the following as a disembodied spirit .
(Romans 7:14-17) [14] For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. [15] For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. [16] If then I do that which I would not, I consent to the law that it is good. [17] Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.
He wrote it in the historical-present tense.
Presenting a past event in a present tense scenario.
As Rom 7:5 had already shown Paul was no longer in the flesh, it is odd that you think he was still in the flesh.
Rom 7:5..."For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death."
I rejoice that he made that even more clear by answering his own Rom 7 questions (v23, 24), with Rom 8:2 and 6:6 answers.
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
funny how you quoted the answer

(Acts 10:13-15) [13] And a voice came to him, saying, Rise, Peter! Kill and eat! [14] But Peter said, Not so, Lord, for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean. [15] And the voice spoke to him again the second time , What God has made clean, you do not call common.
When did God make Gentiles clean?
 

JudgeRightly

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I have admitted that the Spiritual man judges all things, like Paul wrote in 1 Cor 2:15.

The Spiritual man does not judge based on appearances.

He judges with righteous judgement.

Judging appearances is not the same as judging BASED ON appearances.

We don't know the final disposition of the man.

Which is why we don't judge based on appearances, but rather, judge with righteous judgement.

Hardly, as the Law of Moses was made for sinners.

Wrong.

The Law of Moses was made for Israel.

The "Law" was made for sinners.

Adam was given the law, "do not partake of the law, or you will die."

He broke the law, and he died.

And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death.

The Law (which includes as a subset the Mosaic Law meant specifically for Israel) is the knowledge of good and evil.

Thus, when Paul speaks of the law, he is not referring to the Mosaic law, but rather, the entirety of what the law is, that being "the knowledge of good and evil."

Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

I admitted to being a Spiritual man who judges all things. (1 Cor 2:15)

But not based on appearances.

Righteous judgement is possible, when righteous.

Righteous judgement is possible when you don't judge based on appearances, and when you know what is right and wrong.

As you don't believe man can be righteous, the scripture may sound foreign to you.

So you don't believe Paul when he says:

But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

It's not OUR righteousness. It's HIS!

We are not righteous. We cannot be. We have sinned, and fallen short. ONLY HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS imputed upon us will justify us.

Paul's narrative of life under the Law, and failing to adhere to it, is a wonderful testimony of the power of God in Paul's life after conversion.

Reading your beliefs into the text.

What he was once subject to, the Law, was then in his past.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

And he said "we establish the law." Clearly not in the past.

As every precept of the Law of Moses can be in someway included in the law of Christ, your point is pointless.

Every precept?

Including the dietary and clothing laws?

If you say no, then what you just said is false.

Praise God for the presage of our faith today.
Abraham proved his faith when he was about to sacrifice Isaac.

Abraham was accounted righteous because of his faith, BEFORE any works.

You don't seem to understand the significance of the kind of covenant God made with him in Genesis 15.

We too can prove our faith by loving our neighbor as we love ourselves.

More works we must do.

You're a legalist, Hoping. You should repent.

He wrote it in the historical-present tense.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Presenting a past event in a present tense scenario.
As Rom 7:5 had already shown Paul was no longer in the flesh, it is odd that you think he was still in the flesh.
Rom 7:5..."For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death."

Keep reading:

Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

He finished his thought, so he moves on, new paragraph:

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

New paragraph:

Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

Note verse 25. He's still in the flesh, and so with the flesh, he serves the law of sin, but with his mind, he serves the law of God.

Two paragraphs removed from what you say is "narrative about his past."

I rejoice that he made that even more clear by answering his own Rom 7 questions (v23, 24), with Rom 8:2 and 6:6 answers.

Try reading the scripture in order, and your assertion falls apart.
 
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