Right.
Because salvation won't be assured until one hears their name is in the book of life on the last day.
May I ask...
- Thread starter Hoping
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Because salvation won't be assured until one hears their name is in the book of life on the last day.
Derf
Well-known member
No! Absolutely not! Salvation is assured by Jesus' resurrection from the dead. Salvation is not complete, perhaps, until one hears their name read from the book of life. But even that isn't needed for those who take part in the first resurrection. Over them the second death has no power.
Salvation is a done deal for those who are trusting in Christ's finished work alone for justification in the sight of GOD.
Rom 4:20 He(Abraham) staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Rom 4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
Rom 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Rom 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 4:20 He(Abraham) staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Rom 4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
Rom 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Rom 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Salvation certainly can be assured by Jesus' resurrection, but only for those who submit to Him and His Father and endure faithfully their entire new life.
Those serving another master won't be saved.
For sure..."He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." (Rev 3:5)
If you are resurrected to life, at Jesus' return, your judgement has already occurred.
"Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after." (1 Tim 5:24)
Derf
Well-known member
as long as by "endure faithfully" you mean "continue to believe".
And [Rev 2:11 KJV] 11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
I agree, though I'm not sure that's what your reference is referring to, I'll have to review it.
Derf
Well-known member
Salvation is already assured, but not executed (looking for the right word...not sure this one is correct) until the resurrection.
way 2 go
Well-known member
you never provide evidence of your false claims 
words are of most importance
God refers to himself as the Word
(John 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(I Corinthians 12:3) Why I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost
so you have to keep the whole Law or else hell for you
or do you have some unbiblical with out evidence belief ?
heaven or hell the moment you die is A judgement
but you can judge cross dressers
no one has a natural inclination to get circumcised
you say you died to the law
but everything you say proves otherwise
Love God with all your heart, strength, soul, and might.
And love your neighbor as you love yourself.
you say you died to the law
but everything you say proves otherwise
instead you should walk by the spirit
(Romans 8:1) There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit
(Genesis 17:14) And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.
can you quote Jesus doing away with the law
(Matthew 5:17) Do not think that I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to destroy but to fulfill
It would be Paul that called the law death
(Romans 7:10) And the commandment, which * was * to life, was found * to be * death to me.
"His departures from it."
don't give me the summary of the law again as it's no different than the law its just shorter way of saying it
you want to keep some of the law but pretend not to be under it
you want to ignore the 1st covenant with Abraham where he was declared righteous apart from works by faith alone
you want to pretend Abraham wasn't declared righteous by faith apart from works
you say you're not saved by works but without works you're not saved
you are saved so you can keep the law and if you don't you're not saved
you've got nothing in the 1st covenant that Abraham had to obey to be declared righteous
Gen 15:5 And he brought him outside and said, "Look toward heaven, and number the stars, if you are able to number them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be."
Gen 15:6 And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.
(John 7:24) Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
notice you didn't provide evidence of your false claim , very telling.
this is present tense not past tense language
(Romans 7:15-25) [15] For that which I do, I know not. For what I desire, that I do not do; but what I hate, that I do. [16] If then I do that which I do not desire, I consent to the law that * it is * good. [17] But now it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me. [18] For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwells no good thing. For to will is present with me, but * how * to perform * that which is * good I do not find. [19] For I do not do the good that I desire; but the evil which I do not will, that I do. [20] But if I do what I do not desire, * it is * no more I working it out, but sin dwelling in me. [21] I find then a law: when I will to do the right, evil is present with me. [22] For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man; [23] but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin being in my members. [24] O wretched man * that * I * am *! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? [25] I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
(Romans 8:15) For you have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption by which we cry, Abba, Father!
Abraham was declared righteous by faith apart from works
and after Abraham went to sacrifice his son did God declare him righteous for that act ?
did God say "because you were going to sacrifice your son I declare you righteous for that work " ?
Genesis 22
no you don't
(Ephesians 2:8) For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God,
(Genesis 17:14) And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.
(Ephesians 2:8) For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God,
if you don't your not saved
NO
Gen 15:6 And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.
notice you don't quote the Genesis verse where Abraham's works were accounted to him for righteousness .
available to Jews but not through the Jews
as was the gospel that Jesus preached to the Jews only.
just say you don't know
(Romans 6:6) knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him in order that the body of sin might be destroyed, that from now on we should not serve sin
(Romans 7:17) But now it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.
(Galatians 3:3) Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, do you now perfect yourself in the flesh
you have to have works it's not an option for you
you say you're not saved by works but without works you're not saved
so the bible means nothing ?
words are of most importance
God refers to himself as the Word
(John 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(I Corinthians 12:3) Why I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost
so you have to keep the whole Law or else hell for you
so some go to heaven and some go to hell when they die
or do you have some unbiblical with out evidence belief ?
What unbiblical belief have you come up with now ?
but can't verbalize your unbiblical belief
that is why God calls that day judgement day
heaven or hell the moment you die is A judgement
you can't see into peoples hearts
but you can judge cross dressers
which are the summary of the whole law
no.
no one has a natural inclination to get circumcised
"law of Moses" is the Law
you say you died to the law
but everything you say proves otherwise
the summation of the Law is
Love God with all your heart, strength, soul, and might.
And love your neighbor as you love yourself.
you say you died to the law
but everything you say proves otherwise
instead you should walk by the spirit
(Romans 8:1) There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit
this is a law not a suggestion
(Genesis 17:14) And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.
yet circumcision was still a thing until Paul's dispensation did away with it
can you quote chapter and verse before acts 2:41
can you quote Jesus doing away with the law
(Matthew 5:17) Do not think that I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to destroy but to fulfill
Jesus in his earthly ministry did not depart from the law that would have been sin
It would be Paul that called the law death
(Romans 7:10) And the commandment, which * was * to life, was found * to be * death to me.
you just suggested above Jesus broke the Law
"His departures from it."
can you quote chapter and verse before Pentecost
don't give me the summary of the law again as it's no different than the law its just shorter way of saying it
you want it both ways
you want to keep some of the law but pretend not to be under it
like I said
you want to ignore the 1st covenant with Abraham where he was declared righteous apart from works by faith alone
you want to pretend Abraham wasn't declared righteous by faith apart from works
you say you're not saved by works but without works you're not saved
you have to maintain your righteousness
you are saved so you can keep the law and if you don't you're not saved
obey what in the 1st covenant ?
you've got nothing in the 1st covenant that Abraham had to obey to be declared righteous
Gen 15:5 And he brought him outside and said, "Look toward heaven, and number the stars, if you are able to number them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be."
Gen 15:6 And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.
you judge peoples salvation by their looks
(John 7:24) Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
no you're wrong
notice you didn't provide evidence of your false claim , very telling.
this is present tense not past tense language
(Romans 7:15-25) [15] For that which I do, I know not. For what I desire, that I do not do; but what I hate, that I do. [16] If then I do that which I do not desire, I consent to the law that * it is * good. [17] But now it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me. [18] For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwells no good thing. For to will is present with me, but * how * to perform * that which is * good I do not find. [19] For I do not do the good that I desire; but the evil which I do not will, that I do. [20] But if I do what I do not desire, * it is * no more I working it out, but sin dwelling in me. [21] I find then a law: when I will to do the right, evil is present with me. [22] For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man; [23] but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin being in my members. [24] O wretched man * that * I * am *! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? [25] I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
you're a proselyte messianic Jew ?
I'm not perfect like you
mocking the the Word of God ,
(Romans 8:15) For you have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption by which we cry, Abba, Father!
mock praise
unfortunately for you
Abraham was declared righteous by faith apart from works
and after Abraham went to sacrifice his son did God declare him righteous for that act ?
did God say "because you were going to sacrifice your son I declare you righteous for that work " ?
Genesis 22
i consider you to be avoiding the truth of Abraham's 1st covenant
no you don'tyou are saved so you can keep the law and if you don't you're not saved
I have the righteousness that comes by faith
(Ephesians 2:8) For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God,
you say you're not saved by works but without works you're not saved
faith + circumcision
(Genesis 17:14) And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.
(Ephesians 2:8) For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God,
you say you're not saved by works but without works you're not saved
your love is by force ,
if you don't your not saved
NOthe righteousness came by faith not by works
Gen 15:6 And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.
notice you don't quote the Genesis verse where Abraham's works were accounted to him for righteousness .
there has been nothing like Mid Acts Dispensation in the history of mankind
you sure do deny a lot of scripture
Jesus specifically mentions Lazarus which makes it true which you didn't address
(Zechariah 8:23) So says the LORD of hosts: In those days ten men, out of all languages of the nations, shall take hold, and will seize the skirt of a man, a Jew, saying, We will go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.
one gospel to the gentiles,
available to Jews but not through the Jews
as was the gospel that Jesus preached to the Jews only.
just say you don't know
"It is permanent, until you"
you're right you don't determine anyone else's fate
Tom 6:6 ?
(Romans 6:6) knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him in order that the body of sin might be destroyed, that from now on we should not serve sin
(Romans 7:17) But now it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.
well if you're in a war and that man is the enemy , then why not ?
but revived your flesh to keep the law
(Galatians 3:3) Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, do you now perfect yourself in the flesh
but you're not free
you have to have works it's not an option for you
you say you're not saved by works but without works you're not saved
Yes:
Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
I mean that, and continue to treat God like He is God...with obedience.
Yep, those verses are like two peas in a pod.
Rom 6:23 says "the wages of sin is death", in the same chapter in which that death was illustrated.
"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Rom 6:3-7)
We were crucified, (Gal 5:24), killed, with Christ at our "immersion" into Him and into His death and burial.
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"way to go" saying he is a believer isn't in the bible.
The words in the bible are powerless, until someone uses them
Like a hedge-clipper in your shed is useless until someone plugs it in and starts trimming with it.
The bible refers to Jesus as the Word.
No. I have to keep Jesus' two commandments, or my unbelief will be punished with a lake of fire.
If parts of the long gone Law of Moses are inadvertently kept to satisfy Jesus' commadments...so be it.
Murder, theft, lies, and adultery, never show love for God or for a neighbor.
If I die before the Lord's return, I will lay in my grave until then.
At my resurrection, it will be to eternal life with God, or eternal damnation with Hitler and all the other idolaters.
Can you visualize God's perspective?
He is not limited by time and can see things that have not happened yet.
To Him, my salvation, or not, is already knows.
But I don't even know what I will have for lunch.
Our and His perspectives have little in common.
That day has not yet arrived.
It will come with the return of the Lord Jesus Christ.
People who love God do as the Creator wishes.
People who hate God do against His wishes.
It is evidenced by the way they dress, among other things.
They are the summary of the ten commandments.
Circumcision isn't part of the ten commandments or what is called the Law of Christ.
I don't think so, as I no longer have the need to preach circumcision. dietary rules, feast keeping, sabbath keeping, tithing, or anything else not within loving God and neighbor.
Now you are getting it !
Circumcision and what we eat have no impact on our love for God or neighbor !
You seem to be having trouble separating Jesus' two commands from Moses' 400 something Laws.
Amen to that !
As sinners cannot "be in Christ" or "walk in the Spirit", it keeps me busy preaching about freedom from sin.
It is a Law to those unsuccessfully trying to live under the Law.
Not not to those in Christ who are dead to the Law.
Paul's dispensation?
Are you one of those who worships Paul instead of God and His Son?
Jesus did away with circumcision when He fulfilled the Law and prophesies that concerned His arrival and resurrection.
Sure I can.
I'll go right to your second question, as Acts 2 is available to everyone reading this.
It is written..."And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem." (Luke 24:44-47)
No mention of the Law, or of circumcision, there...
Thanks be to God for His successful completion of that.
He didn't sin, but did "part from the Law" in cases where the Law hac nothing at all to do with sin.
Healing on the sabbath, for one.
Picking food on a sabbath, for another.
Claiming He was the Son of God was a big one too.
He found it death for himself, but I really don't see him calling the Law death.
Thank goodness that after his narrative of failure trying to accomplish the Law, he answered all his laments in surrounding chapters.
In a Pharisaic sense He did.
He healed on the Sabbath, which was "deemed" unLawfull.
He also gleaned grain on the sabbath.
Matt 12, Mark 2,3, Luke 6,13,14, John 5
I will obey Jesus's command to love God with all my heart, strength, soul, and mind; and I will love my neighbor as I love myself.
Won't you?
Why shouldn't I ignore it?
That "presage" had been fulfilled with water baptism into Christ and the casting away of the flesh by the circumcision made without hands. (Co 2:11-13)
Not at all, but if he had no proof of his faith, we wouldn't be talking about him now.
You voice the confusion of the anti-works lobby.
When they fight against works, they are regretfully unaware that the "works" that have passed away are those of the Law of Moses.
They include everything from hearing and believing to repentance and baptism...much to their hurt.
Christians are free from the Mosaic Law and customs.
We are not free from loving one another and loving God with all our energy.
We are equipt at rebirth to do exactly that.
I "will be" saved if I keep Jesus' two commandments.
If I fail to love God above anything else or fail to love my neighbor as I love myself, I won't be counted worthy of the kingdom of heaven.
Who cares.
Abrahams' faithfulness is fulfilled in all who love God with all their strength and their neighbor as they llve themselves.
Sometimes it is too obvious where one's heart is.
A man wearing a "I serve Satan" T-shirt, is not a Christian.
Would you be at all confused?
I was hoping you would return to this.
Start a thread on Rom 7, and I will expound on it.
OK, we can do it here.
Answered in Rom 8:2..."For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."
The lamented, and the answered.
Answered in Rom 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
The lament, and the answer.
Paul isn't in the flesh anymore, (Rom 7:5,18), since it was crucified and he was raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4)
I'm not sure what that would entail, but I am happy walking in the Spirit instead of in the flesh, so have no intention of going somewhere else.
Rebirth from God's seed is available to you, and all men, but it will require a real repentance from sin first.
That is your answer to my question?
Glory be to God !
And, he had the proof of his belief.
Do we?
It i written..."And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
11 And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.
15 And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice." (Gen 22:10-18)
Cause and effect.
Abe believed and was counted righteous...and he proved his belief.
Go, and do the same !
I "will be" saved on the last day, if I remain faithfully obedient.
You?
Do you have to remain faithful obedient to be saved?
Thanks be to God !
Why can't you understand that faith will bring about works of faith?
I will not be saved until God says my name is in the book of life.
You are jumping ahead.
I am converted, from a lover of only self to a lover of others.
Are you preaching circumcision after all that about conversion without the works of the Mosaic Law?
Without love, I will not be saved.
I choose to love, having already experienced life without love.
Thanks be to God, Abe's faith did produce faithful actions.
His faith was tried and true !
Religions of division have been around doe a long, long time.
You are entitled to an opinion.
It doesn't matter.
There is one gospel.
Jesus died for our sins and was raised from the grave on the third day.
Why?
Nothing is permanent.
Ananias and Sapphira will testify of that.
Again, we agree.
Fat fingered it...
Before and after.
Paul's Rom 7 narrative of his laments while trying unsuccessfully to obey the Law of Moses, juxtaposed with Rom 6's freedom from what he later calls 'this body of death".
I have no enemies.
And I don't make war.
I can't revive what God has killed.
What works are you referring to?
Circumcision? No.
Sabbath keeping? No.
Feast keeping? No.
Tithing? No.
Dietary rules? No.
Sabbath limitations on travel? No.
Or are you talking about the ten commandments?
Christians don't commit murder, so maybe you see that as keeping a Law, while I see murder as an unnatural act like jumping off the roof and expecting to be able to fly.
Worshipping idols?
No, as that would necessitate a denial of my faith.
Theft?
No, as God knows what I need ahead of me knowing.
Is there some other wickedness you do allow so you can keep saying you are not doing any works of the Law?
How about providing a short list of iniquity you are allowed to do as a Christian?
Who is Grace?
Derf
Well-known member
Eh? Which gospel wasn't available through Jews? Certainly not Paul's, as he was a Jew of Jews. Certainly not Christ's, as He was faultless in His obedience of the Law. And who of the twelve wasn't a Jew?
Jesus taught Jews (including Paul) so they would take His good news to the nations (Gentiles). The twelve didn't do a very good job of it, but stayed in Jerusalem.
Peter acknowledged the dispensation of grace they were under in repudiating the pharasaical believers:
[Act 15:7, 9, 11 KJV] 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. ... 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. ... 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Paul was a Jew, so your POV is not quite right.
But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Bible Gateway passage: Romans 10:8, Romans 10:9, Romans 10:10, Romans 10:11, Romans 10:12, Romans 10:13 - New King James Version
But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
Commandment = law
You just admitted what you've been denying this time: "I have to keep Jesus' two laws, or my unbelief will be punished with a lake of fire."
The Mosaic Law contains moral laws that apply to everyone.
As Christians, we (but not you, apparently) are dead to the law. That includes those moral laws.
"The just live by faith."
Not
"The just live by keeping the law."
Indeed.
Christians will not "lay in their graves."
For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.
Bible Gateway passage: 2 Corinthians 5:1, 2 Corinthians 5:2, 2 Corinthians 5:3, 2 Corinthians 5:4, 2 Corinthians 5:5, 2 Corinthians 5:6, 2 Corinthians 5:7, 2 Corinthians 5:8, 2 Corinthians 5:9, 2 Corinthians 5:10, 2 Corinthians 5:11 - New King James
Assurance of the Resurrection - For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
Supra.
Your view of God being "outside of time" (which is by definition, irrational, and God is not irrational, He is reason itself) comes from Augustine, who got much of what he believed from Aristotle and Plato.
God is not outside of time. The future doesn't exist yet. The past has already happened and cannot be returned to.
God experiences things in sequence as they happen.
Which makes them laws.
Circumcision came BEFORE the Ten Commandments, and was required by the law of Moses.
So why did God almost kill Moses when he refused to become circumcised?
613 in total. All summed up by "love God, and love your neighbor as yourself."
For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.
Bible Gateway passage: Ephesians 3:1, Ephesians 3:2, Ephesians 3:3, Ephesians 3:4, Ephesians 3:5, Ephesians 3:6, Ephesians 3:7 - New King James Version
The Mystery Revealed - For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles—
No one here worships anyone other than God.
Then why did Paul in Acts 16 have Timothy circumcised? Acts 16 is about 17 years after Christ's ascension...
Except it wasn't completed.
There are still, as I recall, two Jewish feasts that have yet to be fulfilled.
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
Bible Gateway passage: Romans 8:1, Romans 8:2, Romans 8:3, Romans 8:4, Romans 8:5, Romans 8:6, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:8, Romans 8:9, Romans 8:10, Romans 8:11 - New King James Version
Free from Indwelling Sin - There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
Supra.
Reading your beliefs into scripture won't save your position.
Translation: "I will be saved if I keep the law."
You're trying to keep the law.
Paul says the law is a curse.
O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ. And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise. What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 3:1, Galatians 3:2, Galatians 3:3, Galatians 3:4, Galatians 3:5, Galatians 3:6, Galatians 3:7, Galatians 3:8, Galatians 3:9, Galatians 3:10, Galatians 3:11, Galatians 3:12, Galatians 3:13, Galatians 3:14, Galatians 3:
Justification by Faith - O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified?
"Sometimes" being the key word here.
Most times, on the other hand, it is not. Therefore, John 7:24.
Most people don't go around wearing "I serve Satan" T-shirts.
Guess what, his works were a different kind of righteousness.
In Galatians 3, Paul tells us that Abraham was justified by his faith. He says nothing about the works that he did.
You won't be if you don't put your faith and trust in Jesus Christ.
Revelation 13:8 and 17:8 seem to indicate that someone's name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life the moment they are made righteous.
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 13:8 - New King James Version
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 17:8 - New King James Version
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
You're lagging behind.
Incorrect.
You, Hoping, will not be saved if you do not place your trust in God, rather than your good deeds.
All your righteous works are as filthy rags.
Trust in God for your salvation.
They don't?
You must have never had a prison ministry in your life.
There are plenty of Christians who are in jail who have committed crimes.
Keeping the law "do not murder" is a work.
Paul was a Jew, who became the Apostle to the Gentiles, and who agreed with the Twelve that He should go to the uncircumcised, while they go to the circumcised.
Sinners don't believe in Him no matter what they say.But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Bible Gateway passage: Romans 10:8, Romans 10:9, Romans 10:10, Romans 10:11, Romans 10:12, Romans 10:13 - New King James Version
But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach):www.biblegateway.com
If they did, they would quit sinning !
Some commandments were Laws.
But I'm not sure if Jesus' "big two" were codified.
A agree we must keep Jesus' two commandments in order to be saved.
Why would God welcome into paradise a man who hates Him or his neighbors?
Yes, it did.
You are kidding yourself if you think liars, thieves, and adulterers are going to heaven.
Paul knew that and wrote..."Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Cor 6:9-10)
The "just" don't act unjustly.
The Law was made for sinners, so if one is still sinning, they are still under the Law of Moses.
1 Tim 1:9-10..."Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;"
When have disobedient, ungodly, unholy, profane, murderers and whoremongers ever been called "just"?
I too would rather be absent from this vessel/body, and with the Lord. But the day if judgement is a long ways off and I won't be judged until that day in order to get my new vessel.Christians will not "lay in their graves."
For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.
Bible Gateway passage: 2 Corinthians 5:1, 2 Corinthians 5:2, 2 Corinthians 5:3, 2 Corinthians 5:4, 2 Corinthians 5:5, 2 Corinthians 5:6, 2 Corinthians 5:7, 2 Corinthians 5:8, 2 Corinthians 5:9, 2 Corinthians 5:10, 2 Corinthians 5:11 - New King James
Assurance of the Resurrection - For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.www.biblegateway.com
God knows the beginning and the end.
He is everywhere and in any time He chooses.
He experiences them from every perspective.
Why put God in a box?
The first of many.
And nine of which are written in the hearts of those reborrn of God's seed.
Thank God they don't apply to the reborn, as the reborn have already cast away the flesh at their "immersion into Christ's death and burial.
I have no idea what you are referring to.
Not Ex. 4, for sure.
Thank God for the simplification, eh?
I am grateful for the resolution of the mystery..."Christ in me the hope of glory".For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.
Bible Gateway passage: Ephesians 3:1, Ephesians 3:2, Ephesians 3:3, Ephesians 3:4, Ephesians 3:5, Ephesians 3:6, Ephesians 3:7 - New King James Version
The Mystery Revealed - For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles—www.biblegateway.com
"Fellow heirs, and of the same body...as the Jewish believers'".
As God said no man can serve two masters, (Matt 6:24), and those who commit sin are servants of sin, (John 8:32-34), it is apparent that the sinners worship something besides God.
I fact, Jesus said they hate God.
So the local Jews wouldn't have a problem with Timothy entering and teaching in their synagogues.
He rose form the dead.
The things concerning Him were completed.
Expound on what is yet to come, please.
All hinging on walking in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
Bible Gateway passage: Romans 8:1, Romans 8:2, Romans 8:3, Romans 8:4, Romans 8:5, Romans 8:6, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:8, Romans 8:9, Romans 8:10, Romans 8:11 - New King James Version
Free from Indwelling Sin - There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.www.biblegateway.com
I don't need to "save a position", as the gates of hell can't prevail over it.
I will be saved if I obey God.
Nobody who disobeys God will be saved.
I am going to show God that I love Him with all my heart and soul, and that I love my neighbors as I love myself.
Won't you?
Yes indeed.Paul says the law is a curse.
O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ. And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise. What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 3:1, Galatians 3:2, Galatians 3:3, Galatians 3:4, Galatians 3:5, Galatians 3:6, Galatians 3:7, Galatians 3:8, Galatians 3:9, Galatians 3:10, Galatians 3:11, Galatians 3:12, Galatians 3:13, Galatians 3:14, Galatians 3:
Justification by Faith - O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified?www.biblegateway.com
Being now dead to the Law, I can rejoice in the new divine nature and the Spirt of God within me.
The Spirit in me won't allow me to kill, steal, or commit adultery.
In those "some" times, judgement is unnecessary.
The unrighteousness is flaunted by the haters of God.
Most do not.
Some where white collars and black suits.
How many kinds of righteousness do you suppose there are?
I would say...just one.
Righteousness according to God.
Sure glad we can look back and prove it, so we too can be faithful unto righteousness.
True, as the disobedient don't trust Jesus.
I don't see "when made righteous they are entered into the book".Revelation 13:8 and 17:8 seem to indicate that someone's name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life the moment they are made righteous.
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 13:8 - New King James Version
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.www.biblegateway.com
Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 17:8 - New King James Version
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.www.biblegateway.com
I see..."He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." (Rev 3:5)
Our names will be there until we commit a sin.
I will be saved without loving.
I call that idea GARBAGE.
Works attributed to me are His works done through me.
It i written..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)
No, they don't.
Murderers can repent of murder though, and become Christians.
I have been, and men don't have to remain useless all their lives.
They were not Christian when they committed their crimes.
God's seed cannot bring forth liars, thieves, or murderers. (1 John 3:9)
Thanks be to God it is one we can accomplish naturally !
As Paul wrote..." But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (Gal 5:18-21)
Are you "led by the Spirit" ?
If yes, then you won't be doing the works of the flesh.
"Sinners" are called that because they are slaves to sin, not because they can do nothing but sin.
Likewise, we Christians are no longer sinners, because we are not slaves to sin.
It doesn't mean, however, that we cannot or will not sin.
Non-sequitur.
Because that's what they are.
ALL commandments are laws, rules to be followed.
They were, in the law.
Not what I said.
You don't seem to be capable of seeing the difference between "fulfilling the law" and "fulfilling the righteous requirements of the law."
Because the man placed his trust in Christ as His Savior.
Why do you think a man would need to do anything else?
People who are saved are not identified as such, even if they do those things.
Their identity is in Christ.
The unrighteous, yes.
Those in the Body of Christ are given Christ's righteousness.
Or do you think that His righteousness is not enough for someone to enter heaven?
When a justified person sins, he does injustice, but it doesnt' change his identity from "just" to "unjust."
Correct.
Wrong.
AMEN!
When they are identified in Christ.
Jesus will be telling you "depart from Me, for I never knew you."
That's not what the Bible says.
That's a cliche that has become common amongst churchianity.
What the Bible ACTUALLY says is that "God declares the end from the beginning." Meaning that He has the ability to start and end things when He wants to.
... that He wants to be.
Or do you think that God is incapable of leaving a room that a pedophile is using to rape a child?
This belief does not come from Scripture. It comes from pagan Greek mythology.
Open Theism Bible Verses in 33 Categories | Open Theism
Nonsense.
Who's doing that?
You're all over the place.
I was referring to the commandments Jesus gave, love God, and love one's neighbor.
Why do you think that?
You're mashing covenants, again.
Yes, Exodus 4:24.
And the Lord said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you do all those wonders before Pharaoh which I have put in your hand. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go. Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord: “Israel is My son, My firstborn. So I say to you, let My son go that he may serve Me. But if you refuse to let him go, indeed I will kill your son, your firstborn.” ’ ” And it came to pass on the way, at the encampment, that the Lord met him and sought to kill him. Then Zipporah took a sharp stone and cut off the foreskin of her son and cast it at Moses’ feet, and said, “Surely you are a husband of blood to me!” So He let him go. Then she said, “You are a husband of blood!”—because of the circumcision.
Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 4:21, Exodus 4:22, Exodus 4:23, Exodus 4:24, Exodus 4:25, Exodus 4:26 - New King James Version
And the Lord said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you do all those wonders before Pharaoh which I have put in your hand. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go.
Why did God almost kill Moses when he refused to circumcise?
Why did Zipporah his wife call him "a husband of blood"?
Answer: "because of the circumcision."
Simplification? It wasn't a simplification at all.
Adding to Scripture is a sin, Hoping.
Stop it.
Right.
Switching between two is still possible, though.
What does Paul say?
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Bible Gateway passage: Romans 6:15, Romans 6:16, Romans 6:17, Romans 6:18, Romans 6:19, Romans 6:20, Romans 6:21, Romans 6:22, Romans 6:23 - New King James Version
From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God - What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!
Paul doesn't seem to think that it's a permanant switch from "slaves of sin" to "slaves of righteousness," like you do.
Please explain why you think it's a permanant switch, and not the opposite of "slaves of sin, free in regards to righteousnes," iow, "slaves of righteousness, free in regards to sin."
Those in the Body of Christ are not identified as sinners anymore. Their identity is in Christ.
Now compare Timothy to Titus:
Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and also took Titus with me. And I went up by revelation, and communicated to them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to those who were of reputation, lest by any means I might run, or had run, in vain. Yet not even Titus who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised. And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage), to whom we did not yield submission even for an hour, that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 2:1, Galatians 2:2, Galatians 2:3, Galatians 2:4, Galatians 2:5 - New King James Version
Defending the Gospel - Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and also took Titus with me.
Why was Timothy circumcised, but not Titus?
Yes. And?
The entire law was not fulfilled.
No, they were not.
Jesus fulfilled only FOUR of the SEVEN feasts of the Mosaic law.
Passover
Feast of Unleavened Bread
Feast of Firstfruits
Feast of Weeks (aka Pentecost)
The other three have NOT been fulfilled.:
Feast of Trumpets
Day of Atonement
Feast of Booths
Walking in the spirit does not require following laws or commandments.
Your position is like a house built on sand.
"I will be saved if I keep God's laws."
No one can keep the law perfectly, Hoping.
Not even you.
Why not put your trust in the One who already did?
Chapter verse.
A missionary went to some people in the Phillipines to preach the gospel.
The tribe's chief, who was resistant to the message that was preached, and thought he could work his way to heaven, as a parting gift, gave the missionary something his son, who had died, had made, something he considered extremely valuable.
The missionary, seeking every opportunity to bring the chief to Christ, pulled out some of the currency that was being used, and asked the chief how much he wanted for the gift.
The chief was greatly offended by this, and asked him why he was trying to pay for something that being given to him for free, saying trying to offer payment was an insult to both him and his son.
The missionary replied: "Why are you trying to work your way to heaven, when God freely gave His Son to die for you?"
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A friend of mine's father agreed to put new roofing on a house. He even said he would do it for free.
One day, the owner of the home, who was a pastor, came to them as they were working and asked if he could treat them to McDonald's. So they went to get something to eat.
Some time later, during a sermon, the Pastor made a joking remark about how he's getting his roof redone, and all it cost him was the price of a happy meal.
My friends father told my friend that even though he knew it was in just, that remark stung quite a bit, because he had offered to do it for free, and yet here the pastor was making it sound like he paid for it with a McDonald's meal.
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God doesn't want your obedience, Hoping, because He knows you cannot ever repay Him.
What He wants is for you to put your faith in Christ, and let Him live through you.
If you're dead to the law, then why are you trying to keep it?
The Holy Spirit is not in the business of preventing people from sinning.
Wrong.
Irrelevant.
As if that has any relation to whether someone is a sinner or not...
You missed it. I even quoted the scripture.
You're trying to acquire righteousness by pursuing the law (even though you deny trying to keep the law), whereas those in the Body of Christ fulfill "the righteous requirement of the law" simply by walking in the Spirit, "the righteousness of faith."
Why?
Because we don't seek righteousness by works of the law, but rather by faith.
You're as bad as unbelieving Israel!
Abraham was justified twice. The first time was through his faith. The second time was through his works.
You keep trying to say they're the same thing, when they're not.
Someone who trusts Jesus can be disobedient sometimes.
Read the verses again.
Does "written in the [book] from the foundation of the world" mean something different to you?
Or would you agree that the phrase "from the foundation of the world" refers to the fact that names have been written in the book since the world began?
Which is perfectly in line with the command to Israel, "endure to the end."
Wrong.
Does not "sealed with the Holy Spirit" mean anything to you?
Chapter, verse that says you'll be saved by loving God, and nothing else.
Loving God comes AFTER you humble yourself before him, Hoping.
From what I've seen so far, hoping, Christ is not in you.
Thus it follows that what you have done is not what Christ has done through you, but rather your own deeds which you are trying to pass off as Christ's.
Attributing to God things that He has not done or said is blasphemy, Hoping.
Yes, that is the verse I was referring to.
Also:
I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
Bible Gateway passage: Romans 7:21, Romans 7:22, Romans 7:23, Romans 7:24, Romans 7:25 - New King James Version
I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.
Saying it doesn't make it so.
Some Christians have committed murder, and went to jail for it.
Or are you going to claim that you know their hearts better than they do and say they're not actually Christians?
Red herring.
You don't know their hearts, so can't actually say that.
Yes, as a way of life, they will not become those things.
Your belief has you ignoring what John said at the beginning of his letter: "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (1:8)
It doesn't mean what you want it to mean.
What does it mean that believers do not continue to sin (1 John 3:6; 5:18)? | GotQuestions.org
What does it mean that believers do not continue to sin? What does 1 John 3:6 mean? What does 1 John 5:18 mean?
www.gotquestions.org
Yet you're trying to force it, by making it a law that you must follow.
AMEN!
And when a believer does not walk in the Spirit, but walks in the flesh, then he will do the works of the flesh.
It doesn't mean he won't be saved. It means he needs return to walking in the Spirit.
So the Gentiles did learn from the Jews.
Right.
If one commits a sin, he is a sinner.
You've been fooled.
Jesus said "Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (John 8:34)
There is no difference, unless you don't feel the Law was righteous.
If he had "placed his trust in Christ", he would have trusted in the promised escapes from temptation that God promised in 1 Cor 10:13.
Sinners don't trust God.
Trust is manifested by action.
Sin shows one is a child of the devil, (1 John 3:10), and not trusting God.
So there is sin in Christ ?
I disagree.
John writes..."This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." (1 John 1:5)
Sinners are not identified as righteous by God.
That would make Him a liar.
The justified don't sin.
So liars thieves, adulterers, etc. are in Christ?
Can't you see how ludicrous that is?
Who will he say it to?
The sinners .