Mass shooting in Orlando, Florida USA 20 dead

[gcthomas]

Your post here just shows how ignorant you really are, is it your position that this was a "religious" right winger that killed these gay people? [blah blah]

No, it isn't, and there is no way to read my post to imply that. I made no reference to this latest mass shooting or the shooter.

What I was doing was to draw your attention to the nonsense of suggesting that it was OK in general for one group of people to pro-actively attack and kill members of another group that was perceived as dangerous, even when the majority was innocent. Or was that only OK if some Americans were threatened by a minority group, as opposed to a minority group that feels threatened BY some Americans?

 

[Nick M]

Violence against objects and violence against people are very different.

Red Herring ignored.

And if this is so boldly proclaimed then why is it the first time I've heard about it?

Because you don't read the Bible. You reject God

What about the other examples in the Gospels where Jesus meets confrontation?

The Lord Jesus Christ came to die on the cross for sin in the world. Try reading the Bible sometime, all your answers are there.

Does this one instance with the money changers outweigh those other examples?

You imply contradiction where there isn't any. He beat the wicked with whips. He will send you to the lake of fire. Those who desire reconciliation get it. Different circumstances get different actions.

What happened in the garden when Peter drew his sword?

The answer is in the text.

 

[Crucible]

Tell that to Ok'D/Sod/Koban. Also, you are unfit to determine the motives of others. While I may disagree with ACW on many things, he is a far better person than you will ever be.

A person who thinks they can manipulate God is a fool, and that includes people who use 'prayer' as an intellectual weapon.

Sigh ... once again, you are either ignorant or flat out dishonest (I will go with the latter). You have determined that I was included in ACW's comment with the intention of "rubbing it in". I did not take his comment as such.

Yes you did, it's only because I brought it up. You don't like me to an extent that you'd bargain with the lesser of whom you see as wrong. It's all in the putting- you do it all the time

 

[Nick M]

You ask questions a 9 year old girl asks.

 

[musterion]

And join yours? LOL...when Hell freezes over.

So you're Catholic. Explains everything.

 

[annabenedetti]

Hundreds on US soil? So you're blaming 9-11 on Obama? Obama is apparently incompetent AND has a time machine!

Looking at his link's list from 2008 onward, apparently he's blaming Obama for Muslim honor killings and domestic violence as well as for several acts of documented non-familial terrorism.

I don't know what he thinks about this from his same link:

Muslims are individuals. We passionately believe that no Muslim should be harmed, harassed, stereotyped or treated any differently anywhere in the world solely on account of their status as a Muslim.

I wouldn't travel to a country that was ruled by Islamic law. But in this country, there are constitutional rights that some here would like to see taken away from certain minority groups by using as a tool the fear of Muslims and Mexicans, and that's a dangerous road to go down.

 

[musterion]

Of course praying for the dead is a waste of time. But many of the victims of this tragedy aren't dead.

I was speaking of prayers for the dead.

To be honest, though, I'm unsure of the biblical warrant to pray for the temporal comfort of grieving people when most of them are unreconciled to God. Pray that they hear the saving Gospel? Yes. Pray that they be comforted while yet enemies if God? Mmmmmm...no.

That isn't aimed at you. More of a general observation.

 

[jeffblue101]

Lulu Ramadan ✔ [MENTION=4127]lulu[/MENTION]ramadan
On reports that Omar Mateen was gay, Mateen's father said his son was maybe at a gay club to "scope it out," and he definitely was not gay

lovedproperly [MENTION=2917]love[/MENTION]dproperly
[MENTION=4127]lulu[/MENTION]ramadan @pbpost - and that explains the self loathing. The father would rather his son be a premeditated killer than a gay man

it looks like his father is in serious denial mode right now, other reports have revealed that he has been visiting gay clubs for over a decade.

 

[musterion]

Looking at his link's list from 2008 onward, apparently he's blaming Obama for Muslim honor killings and domestic violence as well as for several acts of documented non-familial terrorism.

I don't know what he thinks about this from his same link:



I wouldn't travel to a country that was ruled by Islamic law. But in this country, there are constitutional rights that some here would like to see taken away from certain minority groups by using as a tool the fear of Muslims and Mexicans, and that's a dangerous road to go down.

Like the constitutional right not to have to honor perverse ceremonies if your conscience and faith tell you to not to? That the kind of freedom you talking about? Because that freedom died very recently.

 

[annabenedetti]

Trump has said if he's president he'll invoke his immigration code powers as President to suspend Muslim immigration.

I wonder if he realizes Indonesia has the world's largest population of Muslims, with India poised to overtake them?

 

[Rusha]

Sigh ... once again, you are either ignorant or flat out dishonest (I will go with the latter). You have determined that I was included in ACW's comment with the intention of "rubbing it in". I did not take his comment as such.

Yes you did, it's only because I brought it up.

Considering I thanked ACW PRIOR to your reply, you are demonstrating my comment as being spot on ... you know, about you being flat out dishonest. You need to quit looking at the world through your grudge/vendetta-tinted glasses.

 

[jeffblue101]

Razor @hale_razor
OMAR MATEEN:
..was Muslim.
..was Democrat.
..was gay.
..was loyal to ISIS.
..legally purchased guns.
So the problem must be our gun laws!
10:50 AM - 14 Jun 2016

 

[musterion]

I'd like to see him do it, but it won't matter. Because of taqiyya, Muslims will continue to get in by simply denying that they're Muslims. Then there will be officials who lean left choosing to disregard the law because they find it objectionable, something they only seem bothered by when Republicans are in power.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

So you're Catholic. Explains everything.

And according to you a dope smoking Libertarian.

Is lying part of your church's doctrine musty?

 

[aCultureWarrior]

It appears that the murderer was himself a homosexual (surprise, surprise).

The FBI is investigating reports that Orlando gunman Omar Mateen had been a regular at the gay nightclub he attacked and had used gay dating apps, a U.S. official briefed on the case said Tuesday...

The picture grew more complex as patrons of the Pulse came forward to say that they had seen the 29-year-old American-born Muslim there a number of times or that he had been using gay dating apps.

Jim Van Horn, 71, said Mateen was a regular at the club. "He was trying to pick up people...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/break...was-a-club-regular/ar-AAh10Pr?ocid=spartandhp


I'll be discussing more about the culture of death in WHMBR! Part 4 thread.

 

[musterion]

And according to you a dope smoking Libertarian.

Is lying part of your church's doctrine musty?

Catholics and possibly Mormons are the only two churches I have ever heard of that pray for the dead (Mormons by proxy baptism, but maybe they do other prayers for the dead).

Point is, no remotely sound protestant church does that.

So which are you?

 

[gcthomas]

Razor @hale_razor
OMAR MATEEN:
..was Muslim.
..was Democrat.
..was gay.
..was loyal to ISIS.
..legally purchased guns.
So the problem must be our gun laws!
10:50 AM - 14 Jun 2016

In your mind, perhaps, the first four are thought crimes — very difficult to legislate for. The last one though, most nations in the modern world have worked out where the key point of pressure is needed to prevent mass shootings.

Few shooters for the 18 substantially avoidable massacres that Obama has given a press conference for as Pres. were muslims, some were Republicans, most were heterosexual, ALL had access to guns. It is the only common factor, with heterosexuality a close second.

 

[Nick M]

A gun causes crime, therefore all guns should be banned. Or it should be harder to get them. Right?

Then follow the logical conclusion. A muslim commits mass murder.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Catholics and possibly Mormons are the only two churches I have ever heard of that pray for the dead (Mormons by proxy baptism, but maybe they do other prayers for the dead).

Point is, no remotely sound protestant church does that.

So which are you?

Pay attention:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...-USA-20-dead&p=4730930&viewfull=1#post4730930

 

[annabenedetti]

Years ago, I read the book I Will Bear Witness: A Diary of the Nazi Years, 1933-1941 by Victor Klemperer, a Jewish man living in Dresden, Germany. His diary documents the incremental removal of civil liberty for Jewish citizens. From the NYT review:

What makes this book so remarkable, aside from its literary distinction, is Klemperer's preoccupation with the thoughts and actions of ordinary Germans: Berger the greengrocer, who was given Klemperer's house ("anti-Hitlerist, but of course pleased at the good exchange"), the fishmonger, the baker, the much-visited dentist. All offer their thoughts and theories on the progress of the war: Will England hold out? Who listens to Goebbels? How much longer will it last?

This symphony of voices is ordered by the brilliant, grumbling Klemperer, struggling to complete his work on eighteenth-century France while documenting the ever- tightening Nazi grip. He loses first his professorship and then his car, his phone, his house, even his typewriter, and is forced to move into a Jews' House (the last step before the camps), put his cat to death (Jews may not own pets), and suffer countless other indignities.

Despite the danger his diaries would pose if discovered, Klemperer sees it as his duty to record events. "I continue to write," he notes in 1941 after a terrifying run-in with the police. "This is my heroics. I want to bear witness, precise witness, until the very end." When a neighbor remarks that, in his isolation, Klemperer will not be able to cover the main events of the war, he writes: "It's not the big things that are important, but the everyday life of tyranny, which may be forgotten.
​

I've never forgotten Victor Klemperer. If the U.S. address the problem of radical Islamic terrorism by the removal of rights of whole classes of citizens of this country, it's going to look more and more like Klemperer's world.