ECT MAD fails on the gift and age of the Spirit

[TweetyBird]

Hi and Lets haves those VERSES !!

DAN P

Exodus 31:3
and I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,


Acts 2:4
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Luke 1:15
For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother’s womb.

Luke 1:41
And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

Luke 1:67
And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

Acts 4:8
Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

Acts 4:31
And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

Acts 9:17
And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

Acts 13:9
Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,

Acts 13
50 But the Jews stirred up the devout and honourable women, and the chief men of the city, and raised persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them out of their coasts. 51 But they shook off the dust of their feet against them, and came unto Iconium. 52 And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost.

Proverbs 1:23
Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

Isaiah 44:3
For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:

Ezekiel 39:29
Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord God.

Joel 2:28
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Acts 10:45
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Numbers 24:2
And Balaam lifted up his eyes, and he saw Israel abiding in his tents according to their tribes; and the spirit of God came upon him.

Judges 3:10
And the Spirit of the Lord came upon him, and he judged Israel, and went out to war: and the Lord delivered Chushan-rishathaim king of Mesopotamia into his hand; and his hand prevailed against Chushan-rishathaim.

Judges 6:34
But the Spirit of the Lord came upon Gideon, and he blew a trumpet; and Abi-ezer was gathered after him.

1 Samuel 16:13
Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the Lord came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.

2 Chronicles 24:20
And the Spirit of God came upon Zechariah the son of Jehoiada the priest, which stood above the people, and said unto them, Thus saith God, Why transgress ye the commandments of the Lord, that ye cannot prosper? because ye have forsaken the Lord, he hath also forsaken you.

Acts 19:6
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

2 Peter 1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Luke 4:1
And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

Acts 6:3
Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.

Acts 7:55
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Acts 11:24
For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord.

Micah 3:8
But truly I am full of power by the spirit of the Lord, and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin.

Luke 4:1
And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

 

[Danoh]

Where does Rom 11:25 state that the body of Christ is taken from the earth?

You are aware that only a remnant of Israel is saved - as prophesied?

For starters re: The Pre Trib Rapture

(actually, PreProphecy - because it takes place at some point before things go back to Prophecy or Israel's Prophesied fulness)

Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[DAN P]

Where does Rom 11:25 state that the body of Christ is taken from the earth?

You are aware that only a remnant of Israel is saved - as prophesied?

Hi an I will say what just part of Rom 11:25 means !!

until the Gentiles " BE COME IN " is the verb and is in the AORIST TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE and in the SUBJECTIVE MOOD !!

The whole verse of Rom 11:25 is ONLY speaking to the Body of Christ AS it is in the Greek PRESENT tense in the Dispensation of the Grace of God !!

But here is the CLINCHER IS THE verb " BE COME IN " is in the AORIST TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE and SUBJECTIVE MOOD , and the AORIST tense speaks to the beginning of the Didpensation !!

The ACTIVE VOICE is the Holy Spirit saying from the beginning of Paul's gospel , that God is going to make this happen !!

The SUBJECTIVE MOOD means that when God decides to bring the Body to heaven , it will be done at His time and not until then and Rom 11:25 is CONTROLLED by the Subjective Mood !!

Only dispensaionals will believe what Rom 11:25 means and when reading Rom 11 all can see Israel has STUMBLED and God has GIVEN Israel the a spirit of STUPOR , EYES to see NOT and EARS to hear not , UNTIL THIS DAY , Rom 11:8 !!

dan p

 

[TweetyBird]

For starters re: The Pre Trib Rapture

Rom 11:25 says nothing about believers being taken.

(actually, PreProphecy - because it takes place at some point before things go back to Prophecy or Israel's Prophesied fulness)

Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

None of those verses says anything about believers being taken away while life continues on earth.

 

[TweetyBird]

Hi an I will say what just part of Rom 11:25 means !!

until the Gentiles " BE COME IN " is the verb and is in the AORIST TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE and in the SUBJECTIVE MOOD !!

The whole verse of Rom 11:25 is ONLY speaking to the Body of Christ AS it is in the Greek PRESENT tense in the Dispensation of the Grace of God !!

But here is the CLINCHER IS THE verb " BE COME IN " is in the AORIST TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE and SUBJECTIVE MOOD , and the AORIST tense speaks to the beginning of the Didpensation !!

The ACTIVE VOICE is the Holy Spirit saying from the beginning of Paul's gospel , that God is going to make this happen !!

The SUBJECTIVE MOOD means that when God decides to bring the Body to heaven , it will be done at His time and not until then and Rom 11:25 is CONTROLLED by the Subjective Mood !!

Only dispensaionals will believe what Rom 11:25 means and when reading Rom 11 all can see Israel has STUMBLED and God has GIVEN Israel the a spirit of STUPOR , EYES to see NOT and EARS to hear not , UNTIL THIS DAY , Rom 11:8 !!

dan p

I think you are dispensationaly challenged. All of Israel has not stumbled. Jews have been believing in Christ since Jesus was born, and before that believed for Him in faith. The nation of Israel has stumbled, she will be crushed by the Cornerstone. She has been given over to a nation who bears fruit [one new man - Jew and Gentile in Christ]. Only the remnant of Jews have been saved, are being saved, and will be saved, as prophesied. One third in total.

 

[DAN P]

I think you are dispensationaly challenged. All of Israel has not stumbled. Jews have been believing in Christ since Jesus was born, and before that believed for Him in faith. The nation of Israel has stumbled, she will be crushed by the Cornerstone. She has been given over to a nation who bears fruit [one new man - Jew and Gentile in Christ]. Only the remnant of Jews have been saved, are being saved, and will be saved, as prophesied. One third in total.

Hi and I will say that I know about dispensationalism as Pentecostals , do NOT !!

If you think you know dispensationalism , you , then know about about WHY Jews are NOT in the Body of Christ ?

Or the question can be put this way , ARE THE 12 in OR are 12 IN the Body ??

If you can not answer you are not dispensational , very simple !!

You can not disprove Rom 11:8-9 or 25 !!

dan p

 

[Danoh]

I think you are dispensationaly challenged. All of Israel has not stumbled. Jews have been believing in Christ since Jesus was born, and before that believed for Him in faith. The nation of Israel has stumbled, she will be crushed by the Cornerstone. She has been given over to a nation who bears fruit [one new man - Jew and Gentile in Christ]. Only the remnant of Jews have been saved, are being saved, and will be saved, as prophesied. One third in total.

Nope.

After Israel's fall as a nation; their believing remnant having been sealed and the rest of Israel having been concluded having continued in the uncircumcision of heart of their forefathers; the only way for a Jew to get saved now was as a Gentile.

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

Romans 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

Said Jew was not part of Israel's believing remnant; as Israel was now just another lost heathen nation...

Said Jew was now just another lost person - his only hope now the Apostle Paul's "gospel of the UNCircumcision."

Galatians 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

 

[TweetyBird]

Hi and I will say that I know about dispensationalism as Pentecostals , do NOT !!

If you think you know dispensationalism , you , then know about about WHY Jews are NOT in the Body of Christ ?

Or the question can be put this way , ARE THE 12 in OR are 12 IN the Body ??

If you can not answer you are not dispensational , very simple !!

You can not disprove Rom 11:8-9 or 25 !!

dan p

I don't care about "dispensationalism", quite honestly. Those Jews who believe in Christ Jesus crucified and rose again ARE in the Body of Christ. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile in Christ - we are ONE new man, not two.

I would never try to disprove any text in the Bible.

 

[TweetyBird]

Nope.

After Israel's fall as a nation; their believing remnant having been sealed and the rest of Israel having been concluded having continued in the uncircumcision of heart of their forefathers; the only way for a Jew to get saved now was as a Gentile.

Nope, salvation is not based on ethnicity but on who they are in Christ. In Christ, there is neither Jew nor Gentile.

All the verses you quoted do not say that all Jews are unsaved. Paul is referring to unbelieving Jews, or else he would not be saved and writing most of the NT. :duh:

 

[Danoh]

If Gentiles is an ethnicity, than what are the Chinese; or Italians; or Germans; and so on?

Thus; the phrase "Gentiles in the flesh" - a reference to a spiritual issue.

Thus; the phrases "the circumcision" and "the uncircumcision."

Advanced Mad 201:chuckle:

 

[DAN P]

I don't care about "dispensationalism", quite honestly. Those Jews who believe in Christ Jesus crucified and rose again ARE in the Body of Christ. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile in Christ - we are ONE new man, not two.

I would never try to disprove any text in the Bible.

Hi and you don't care , and I believe you !!

Gal 3:28 says that there are NEITHER Jews or Greek , Neither Bond or Free NOR Male nor Female !!

It seems that Holy Spirit does not CARE what you believe !!

LOL TO YOU !!

dan p

 

[musterion]

I don't care about "dispensationalism", quite honestly. Those Jews who believe in Christ Jesus crucified and rose again ARE in the Body of Christ. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile in Christ - we are ONE new man, not two.

I would never try to disprove any text in the Bible.

Tweety,

Just curious...at what point in the Bible do you see Jews reduced to the exact same level as dog Gentiles, as far as approaching God is concerned? IOW, no more appeals to Israel, to heritage, covenants, etc, but all equally lost? Honest question, not a setup. Thx...

 

[Tambora]

Said Jew was now just another lost person - his only hope now the Apostle Paul's "gospel of the UNCircumcision."

Peter, James, etc. were lost unless they had the faith of Paul's gospel?
If they had the same faith as Paul's gospel, would they not be in the BOC?

 

[DAN P]

I don't care about "dispensationalism", quite honestly. Those Jews who believe in Christ Jesus crucified and rose again ARE in the Body of Christ. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile in Christ - we are ONE new man, not two.

I would never try to disprove any text in the Bible.

Hi and where is a verse that Jews are in the body of Christ ?

If you NEVER try to disprove any text in the bible , WHY do you not believe Col 1:25 and 26 ??

What do you then believe ?

dan p

 

[TweetyBird]

If Gentiles is an ethnicity, than what are the Chinese; or Italians; or Germans; and so on?

Thus; the phrase "Gentiles in the flesh" - a reference to a spiritual issue.

Thus; the phrases "the circumcision" and "the uncircumcision."

Advanced Mad 201:chuckle:

That is just :kookoo: I am a Gentile and I know what my ethnicity is. Are you not part of some human gene pool on earth or are you from Mars

 

[TweetyBird]

Tweety,

Just curious...at what point in the Bible do you see Jews reduced to the exact same level as dog Gentiles, as far as approaching God is concerned? IOW, no more appeals to Israel, to heritage, covenants, etc, but all equally lost? Honest question, not a setup. Thx...

Gentiles and Jews are on equal footing - both need Jesus for salvation. Jews cannot play the Israel card and think they are saved. All, every single person must come to Christ of their on accord. Check out Rom 10.

 

[musterion]

Gentiles and Jews are on equal footing - both need Jesus for salvation. Jews cannot play the Israel card and think they are saved. All, every single person must come to Christ of their on accord. Check out Rom 10.

Thank you but that's not what I asked. I'm curious at what point in the N.T. do you see that Jews lost "first place in line" so to speak? WHEN did this happen?

 

[TweetyBird]

Hi and where is a verse that Jews are in the body of Christ ?

If you NEVER try to disprove any text in the bible , WHY do you not believe Col 1:25 and 26 ??

What do you then believe ?

dan p

So let me see if I understand you, Jesus who was a Jew is not head of His own body which includes Jews? And Peter, James, John, Jude are not part of the body of Christ because they are Jews? It's getting real scary in here. :aimiel:

1 Cor 12
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many.

Gal 3
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Eph 2
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 and came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 for through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

 

[TweetyBird]

Tweety,

Just curious...at what point in the Bible do you see Jews reduced to the exact same level as dog Gentiles, as far as approaching God is concerned? IOW, no more appeals to Israel, to heritage, covenants, etc, but all equally lost? Honest question, not a setup. Thx...

The gentiles were not considered dogs by Jesus. Jew and Gentile have equal opportunity to come to Christ. That is the new covenant.

 

[TweetyBird]

Thank you but that's not what I asked. I'm curious at what point in the N.T. do you see that Jews lost "first place in line" so to speak? WHEN did this happen?

When Jesus died on the cross and rose again. All were put on equal footing to believe Gospel [John 3:16]. The Gospel was primarily preached to the Jew first after Pentecost, although Gentiles believed as well. The Jews, as a nation, have always rejected Christ and always will. Only a remnant will be saved per the OT prophets and Paul. Their opportunity, according to Heb 4, is TODAY - harden not your hearts.