Mad but Im not pretrib

[Tambora]

I don't think the body of Christ has any wrath that we need to suffer in tribulation. That's israel's appionted time of trouble. The body may get caught in the crossfire though

Some folks do hold the view that the BOC will be here and suffer like everyone else, or be here and be protected.
Lack of scripture stating either one is what hinders me from holding that view.

One point you might consider is that if the BOC is here experiencing the wrath pour out is how does that fit in with the BOC provoking Israel to jealousy? (Rom 11:11)
It's hard to see how Israel would feel jealous if the BOC was experiencing the same wrath as they.


One thing has bothered me, in which I have no sufficient answer.
What happens to children in the womb during the rapture?
If both mother and child are saved, then both are raptured, but are they raptured together or in separate bodies?
And if one is saved but the other is not, how does that happen?

 

[Danoh]

Some folks do hold the view that the BOC will be here and suffer like everyone else, or be here and be protected.
Lack of scripture stating either one is what hinders me from holding that view.

One point you might consider is that if the BOC is here experiencing the wrath pour out is how does that fit in with the BOC provoking Israel to jealousy? (Rom 11:11)
It's hard to see how Israel would feel jealous if the BOC was experiencing the same wrath as they.


One thing has bothered me, in which I have no sufficient answer.
What happens to children in the womb during the rapture?
If both mother and child are saved, then both are raptured, but are they raptured together or in separate bodies?
And if one is saved but the other is not, how does that happen?

If that's got ya going, sis, try this on for size...

One view holds that all members of the Body will be the age of Christ when He died and rose again - 33 years of age.

And that all will be neither male nor female.

______

As for the issue of the unborn, it would still need a body free from Adam's corruption.

Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[Danoh]

You are right, we will be gathered away from God's wrath but tribulation comes from Antichrist

Was wondering where my Post-Trib sister was; hope all is well, Tots.

Now put that away, and get right on this - the Rapture is Pre, NOT Post-Trib

 

[Nick M]

I don't think the body of Christ has any wrath that we need to suffer in tribulation. That's israel's appionted time of trouble. The body may get caught in the crossfire though

Can the members of the Body sin their way out of salvation? Can they fall away?

 

[Nick M]

If both mother and child are saved, then both are raptured, but are they raptured together or in separate bodies?
And if one is saved but the other is not, how does that happen?

Delmar said it best; I believe God will make the right choice at that time. The child is a separate person from the mother. She was with child is said in the Bible a few times. And as StP likes to say, the Holy Spirit choose words carefully.

My guess is that child will then have to make a choice to be with the creator or choose to rebel. And we can't say they will choose him. Look at the all the idiots now. They choose death.

 

[Tambora]

If that's got ya going, sis, try this on for size...

One view holds that all members of the Body will be the age of Christ when He died and rose again - 33 years of age.

And that all will be neither male nor female.

______

As for the issue of the unborn, it would still need a body free from Adam's corruption.

Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Yeah, the old "baby in womb" card puts a stick in a lot of spoked wheels.
Gotta obey first. - What about babies in the womb?
Gotta confess first. - What about babies in the womb?
Gotta hear the gospel first. - What about babies in the womb?
Gotta repent first. - What about babies in the womb?
etc.

 

[patrick jane]

Babies in the womb are automatically saved and sealed -

 

[Danoh]

Delmar said it best; I believe God will make the right choice at that time. The child is a separate person from the mother. She was with child is said in the Bible a few times. And as StP likes to say, the Holy Spirit choose words carefully.

My guess is that child will then have to make a choice to be with the creator or choose to rebel. And we can't say they will choose him. Look at the all the idiots now. They choose death.

Na, an unborn knows not right from wrong.

As infuriating as the following can be to some; can one really blame a newborn for waking everyone up in the middle of the night?

No.

Because it does not yet know better.

Deuteronomy 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

And those were children already born.

There is also the issue of God's desired election purpose for Jacob's then yet future wombs of joy...

Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; )

Too often "we can not know" is merely one man's limitation, and this; at times only in that moment in which he uttered it.

 

[serpentdove]

...[A]n unborn knows not right from wrong.

A baby knows it's wrong when his mother is killing him (2 Ti 3:3 KJV, Ro 1:31 KJV). :dizzy:

 

[Swifty357]

Nick no i dont think we can lose our salvation. At least not yet if a body of Christ takes the mark of the beast then maybe then. We are still in the dispensation of grace now. That might change in the tribulation.

 

[Danoh]

Nick no i dont think we can lose our salvation. At least not yet if a body of Christ takes the mark of the beast then maybe then. We are still in the dispensation of grace now. That might change in the tribulation.

You need to quit adding works to eternal security, Gal. 3:3.

 

[Danoh]

A baby knows it's wrong when his mother is killing him (2 Ti 3:3 KJV, Ro 1:31 KJV). :dizzy:

Talk about reading notions into the passages - you're better off quoting one of the many "scholars" you often quote.

 

[serpentdove]

[A baby knows it's wrong when his mother is killing him (2 Ti 3:3 KJV, Ro 1:31 KJV). :dizzy:] Talk about reading notions into the passages...

:yawn: Jn 8:37

 

[Clete]

I firmly believe the great tribulation is for Israel. The 7 years is the time of Jacobs trouble. Israel is the bride of Christ. We the body of Christ I understand we are not meant for wrath. But I still can't make up a doctrine of us being raptured pre trib with no scriptural justification. Maybe God will protect us like the 3 Hebrew boys in Daniel. Or maybe like noah God will keep us here but in the protection of the ark. Maybe it's our job to convert Israel during the tribulation

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Do you have any scriptural justification for any of those other things?

NO!

Your first four sentences is plenty of scriptural justification for believing that the rapture, which Paul does talk about in I Thessalonians 4, will happen prior to God turning again to Israel. You say you don't believe it but you keep making all the arguments in favor of it.

 

[Clete]

Babies in the womb are automatically saved and sealed -

Who told you that?

 

[Clete]

"Rapture" doesn't exist in scripture...

Yes it does.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

The words "caught up" are translated from the Greek word 'harpazō' which mean to snatch away.

The Latin Vulgate uses the word 'raptura' which means the same thing.

The word 'raptura' is then transliterated into the English word 'rapture'.

So, even if your English translation doesn't use the word 'rapture' that doesn't mean that the concept isn't there. If a translation did use the actual term, it would be a perfectly accurate translation.

 

[patrick jane]

Who told you that?

God

 

[Nick M]

Nick no i dont think we can lose our salvation. At least not yet if a body of Christ takes the mark of the beast then maybe then. We are still in the dispensation of grace now. That might change in the tribulation.

Paul says we are sealed until the day of redemption. Our life is hid in Christ. So, 2 Thessalonians 2 says the falling away or a departure happens first. How can the Body fall away? It can't. Paul is speaking of a departure, not apostasy.

Do you see this? If not, I will load up for the wolf coming after the flock.

In fact, that is the context to what Paul was saying. They thought they missed him and the gathering to him. He assured them they did not miss him and the wickedness and son of perdition won't happen until after the departure.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Was wondering where my Post-Trib sister was; hope all is well, Tots.

Now put that away, and get right on this - the Rapture is Pre, NOT Post-Trib

But Jesus says that it is


"....after the tribulation of those days....they will see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with the trump of God and the angels will gather His elect from the four corners of heaven"

This matches 2. Thess.2. exactly

 

[Totton Linnet]

Tribulation and God's wrath are two different things.

Paul said "through much tribulation must we enter the kingdom of God"