Lucifer and the Ancient Earth

[jamie]

You are driving at this idea that "echad" is different from the English number "one".

Not at all. In English the word "one" can be an adjective or a pronoun.

In Deuteronomy 6:4 "one" is an adjective modifying eternal being, but it does not specify the number of eternal beings nor does it specify which eternal being. In other words it does not support the premise there is only one eternal being. There is a word that means only one, but that is not the word used in Deuteronomy 6:4.

The New Testament is a commentary on the Hebrew Bible explaining things not obvious in the Hebrew Bible, for example the number of eternal beings in the days of Moses.

The NT makes clear that the Most High is the God of Israel's fathers, but it was not the Most High who brought Jacob's people out of Egypt.

The exodus of the people was commanded by the Most High but executed by Christ.

Christ is now the King of Israel on behalf of the Most High and is the person referred to in Deuteronomy 6:4.

 

[Interplanner]

re the video
At 2:00, Langford went into the 2nd level or analogy of the formless and void period, instead of a text study of what it says. That kind of it is ultimately confusing. It isn't really til the 11th minute that the real question comes out: why would God call 'formless and void' good? Of course, He didn't. He called the redemption of F&V good.

We can't know the spiritual before the actual and ordinary has been explained.

It's just not clear on decisive stuff. For ex., a person might think a very old creation is 'creation' when 'creation' is used later in things like Ps 19 or Rom 1. It's not. 'Creation' at that point is what God did in v3. What needs to be said is that the Bible is quite complete about the history that matters to us. It is sparse about a distant ancient world.

Another passage I thought would surely be addressed is the vocab of 2 Pet 3 when a range of vocab is put out about all this, and makes a distinction between the earth 'existing' and then this world 'being created', using different vocab. In addition, Peter quickly speaks of the previous world being destroyed, but means the created and defiled world before the flood. But saying that is a strong implication that something similar had already happened. Langford should have explained that 'F&V' means that a destructive judgement took place.

(Out of the 500 accounts of some kind of major world deluge around the world, it is intriguing to notice how many think of the event as 'creation'--without reference to anything before. The ones that refer to something before are usually about giants and their mindless evil, the most specific being Naszca, Peru).

 

[chair]

Not at all. In English the word "one" can be an adjective or a pronoun.

In Deuteronomy 6:4 "one" is an adjective modifying eternal being, but it does not specify the number of eternal beings nor does it specify which eternal being....

Stop right here.
If I say "one cow", how am I using the word "one"?
Is there any question about how many cows there are?

The word ECHAD means one. The other word you are hinting at means only. The words are used differently. Try substituting only for one in deuteronomy.

 

[Interplanner]

But God is one means God is unified, a unity.

 

[jamie]

The word ECHAD means one.

Yes, but an adjective modifies a noun. The noun is missing.

You're guessing the noun would be a person, but that's not what is said.

I can refer to one cow but that does not exclude other cows. I could have picked one of many.

The word "adon" can refer to any person of respect.

"Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, 'After I have grown old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?'"

My lord is a reference to Sarah's husband and is singular. The law required a woman to have only one husband.

Here the word for lord is adon, which is singular.

The plural for adon is adonaim. The term Adonai means my Adon.

"Sh'ma, Yisra'el! ADONAI Eloheinu, ADONAI echad." (Deuteronomy 6:4 CJB)

Adonai for Israel refers to their Adon, their Lord, their King.

Israel's Adon is a King of kings and Lord of lords.

Israel's Adon also has an Adon, the Most High, our Father.

 

[chair]

Yes, but an adjective modifies a noun. The noun is missing.

You're guessing the noun would be a person, but that's not what is said.

I can refer to one cow but that does not exclude other cows. I could have picked one of many.

The word "adon" can refer to any person of respect.

"Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, 'After I have grown old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?'"

My lord is a reference to Sarah's husband and is singular. The law required a woman to have only one husband.

Here the word for lord is adon, which is singular.

The plural for adon is adonaim. The term Adonai means my Adon.

"Sh'ma, Yisra'el! ADONAI Eloheinu, ADONAI echad." (Deuteronomy 6:4 CJB)

Adonai for Israel refers to their Adon, their Lord, their King.

Israel's Adon is a King of kings and Lord of lords.

Israel's Adon also has an Adon, the Most High, our Father.

You are saying that "one" is an adjective here without a noun, and therefore no longer means "one", but "one of many"?

I am not sure what your point is about the term "adon". It's meaning is clear. God is out lord and king.

 

[jamie]

I am not sure what your point is about the term "adon". It's meaning is clear. God is out lord and king.

Adon is singular, adonai is plural

In Deuteronomy 6:4 CJB Adonai is used instead of the singular Adon.

"Sh'ma, Yisra'el! ADONAI Eloheinu, ADONAI echad.

Eloheinu is a masculine noun and is one of the plural Adonai.

 

[chair]

Adon is singular, adonai is plural

In Deuteronomy 6:4 CJB Adonai is used instead of the singular Adon.

"Sh'ma, Yisra'el! ADONAI Eloheinu, ADONAI echad.

Eloheinu is a masculine noun and is one of the plural Adonai.

Since "adonai" doesn't actually appear in the verse, I am not sure what this detailed grammatical discussion is supposed to prove.

 

[jamie]

"For your Maker is your husband, the Lord of hosts is His name, and your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel, He is called the God of the whole earth." (Isaiah 54:5)

The people of Jacob had a Father and a Husband.

Their Father was the Most High and their Husband was Christ.

The death of Christ ended his marriage to Israel.

 

[jamie]

Since "adonai" doesn't actually appear in the verse, I am not sure what this detailed grammatical discussion is supposed to prove.

The quote in which Adonai appears is the Complete Jewish Bible.

If you're not familiar with the term the KJV uses LORD.

Adonai is the plural for Adon and means my Lord.

 

[chair]

The quote in which Adonai appears is the Complete Jewish Bible.

If you're not familiar with the term the KJV uses LORD.

Adonai is the plural for Adon and means my Lord.

The term Adonai is not in the Hebrew.

The "complete Jewish Bible" is a Christian translation, by the way. Despite the misleading name.

 

[jamie]

The term Adonai is not in the Hebrew.

The "complete Jewish Bible" is a Christian translation, by the way. Despite the misleading name.

The Complete Jewish Bible was translated by David H. Stern, an Israel-based Messianic Jewish theologian. Published in 1998 by Jewish New Testament Publications, the CJB claims to be “Jewish in manner and presentation.” The names of the books are Jewish along with their English names (if different). Semitic names are used for people and places. It also incorporates Hebrew and Yiddish expressions that Stern refers to as “Jewish English.”​

I noticed right away the CJB version was not written in Hebrew.

It's an English translation like many others.

The Complete Jewish Bible Old Testament is a paraphrase of the 1917 Jewish Publication Society version of the Tanakh (also known as the Masoretic Text).​

I'm not a KJV only type person. :idunno:

 

[jamie]

The term Adonai is not in the Hebrew.

ADONAI

a-do'-ni, ad-o-na'-i ('adhonay):

A Divine name, translated "Lord," and signifying, from its derivation, "sovereignty." Its vowels are found in the Massoretic Text with the unpronounceable tetragrammaton " YHWH "; and when the Hebrew reader came to these letters, he always substituted in pronunciation the word " 'adhonay." Its vowels combined with the tetragrammaton form the word "Yahweh (Yahweh)."

http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/adonai/​

 

[jamie]

The term "Yahweh" is not in the Hebrew either, but people still use it.

Instead of Yahweh I prefer the term "Eternal" as in Deuteronomy 33:27.

In Hebrew the transliteration is qedem קֶ֫דֶם , which means eternal in English.

 

[chair]

ADONAI

a-do'-ni, ad-o-na'-i ('adhonay):

A Divine name, translated "Lord," and signifying, from its derivation, "sovereignty." Its vowels are found in the Massoretic Text with the unpronounceable tetragrammaton " YHWH "; and when the Hebrew reader came to these letters, he always substituted in pronunciation the word " 'adhonay." Its vowels combined with the tetragrammaton form the word "Yahweh (Yahweh)."

http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/adonai/​

It is true that the name of God is not pronounced, and that we use the term "Adonai" instead. That does not change the fact that ADONAI does not appear in the text, and that it makes no sense to be analyzing the meaning of ADONAI in the context of the Shema.

 

[chair]

The term "Yahweh" is not in the Hebrew either, but people still use it.

Instead of Yahweh I prefer the term "Eternal" as in Deuteronomy 33:27.

In Hebrew the transliteration is qedem קֶ֫דֶם , which means eternal in English.

THWH does not appear in that verse. qedem does.

Please go learn some Hebrew. I don't have the time to fix your ignorance.