LOST - discussion about the TV series LOST. ** SPOILER ALERT **

[zoo22]

So now that we are talking about the "Next on LOST" preview, did anyone catch that they were playing a song from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory (the 1971 version with Gene Wilder) during the previews. I was expecting one of you to have a theory about that, since I can't come up with one on my own. Except that they threw that in just to see what crazy stuff people would come up with.

I've watched it now (great preview). My "theory" is that the lyrics fit the topsy-turvey "where are we and where are we going" of LOST perfectly and it's a bizarre song that adds a creepy "watch out folks it's starting to get crazy" soundtrack to the preview... I don't think there's more than that.

But it does it well. :noid:

There’s no earthly way of knowing
Which direction we are going
There’s no knowing where we’re rowing
Or which way the river’s flowing
Is it raining?
Is it snowing?
Is a hurricane a-blowing??
Not a speck of light is showing
So the danger must be growing
Are the fires of hell a-glowing?
Is the grisly reaper mowing?
Yes, the danger must be growing
‘Cause the rowers keep on rowing
And they’re certainly not showing
Any signs that they are slowing!

 

[Nathon Detroit]

You're right about Desmond pushing the buttons for the numbers, while Jacob "pushed" the numbers in the form of the candidates. That is an amazing parallel. However, in the Lighthouse, we saw the number 108 and the name Wallace, which was not crossed out. 108 is, of course, the total of the other six most famous candidate numbers. Jacob told Hurley that Wallace was coming. Everyone assumed the next person we'd see coming to the island would be Wallace... and when Widmore showed up, they thought, if anyone is Wallace, that must be him.

Except that no one seems to consider that Widmore may have unwittingly brought Wallace to the island... in his locked room!

Boom! That's awesome!

And of course the show has a history of giving us names that confuse us....

Jeremy Bentham was really John Locke
Sawyer was actually James Ford.
Kevin Johnson was actually Michael

Maybe Desmond Hume is actually Wallace? :think:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Graphite, I decided to check out LOSTpedia to see who they thought Wallace was. Here are their theories...

* Wallace is Jacob's surname
o This would explain why the Others and Jacob himself are so found of that exact number. Also it's not unlikely that somebody else was 'Jacob' before Jacob.
o It does not, however, explain why Jacob would write his own name at a random position among the others'. It is stated in "The Substitute" that Jacob was the one that had a thing with numbers, and that he wrote all of the names on the cave-wall.
+ The cave wall may not have been written by Jacob
+ How about "Wall-less", as in Plato was on too many drugs.

* Wallace is Walt
o Because Walt is the only 815 survivor off the island, he must come to the island (like how the O6 came back).
o Aaron is also not on the island.
+ Neither is Ji-Yeon, Sun's baby.
o Walt could be using the name of the person he is staying with. We never heard of the name it could possible be Wallace.
+ Walt is staying with his grandmother, and Susan named him Walter Lloyd.

* Wallace is the Man in Black. He was an actual man who died and was then inhabited by the smoke monster. He was brought to the Island as a candidate, but he used his special-ness to do wrong. Jacob wanted to use the mirrors to see where MIB was, because MIB is presumably going home.

* Wallace is Desmond. Wallace is a famous Scottish surname, and Desmond is Scottish.
o He did have to punch a button every 108 minutes, after entering six numbers that totaled 108.
o Desmond is 108. When Jacob told Hurley to move the dial to 108* (4+8+15+23+42=108) it was so someone could get to the island. Desmond isn't on the island currently, and when Jack broke the mirrors, Jacob said he wouldn't worry because he would find a way to get there (ie: conciously flash himself there).
o Although the name next to 108 says "Wallace" it is possible Desmond's last name (Hume) isn't his birthname, much like Miles has a different last name than his parents.
o Wallace seems to have been proven to be Desmond as he is shown having returned to the island. As Locke was referred to as Bentham (two philosophers associated with each other), so Desmond David Hume was referred to as Wallace in reference to Robert Wallace who was associated with David Hume.

* Wallace is The Economist
o Robert Wallace was an economist.

* Marcellus Wallace from Pulp Fiction ​

I think Desmond makes the most sense don't you?

 

[The Graphite]

o Although the name next to 108 says "Wallace" it is possible Desmond's last name (Hume) isn't his birthname, much like Miles has a different last name than his parents.
o Wallace seems to have been proven to be Desmond as he is shown having returned to the island. As Locke was referred to as Bentham (two philosophers associated with each other), so Desmond David Hume was referred to as Wallace in reference to Robert Wallace who was associated with David Hume.

This clinches it for me.

I've already thought about how parental issues are massively important in the Lost storyline for nearly every major character. But, where are Desmond's parents? Have we ever even heard him REFER to his parents? We may have, but if so, it was so minor as to have been almost completely forgotten. His parents are suspiciously hidden in the storytelling.

And I LOVE the reference to Locke/Bentham and Hume/Wallace. Wow! That is the clincher for me, the final nail in the coffin.

* Marcellus Wallace from Pulp Fiction

If this is true, maybe we'll finally find out what was in that darned, glowing briefcase!!!

 

[zoo22]

-snip-

I wonder what other parallels we can find between Desmond and Jacob and I wonder what that tells us about Jacob and about Desmond. Based on all of this I believe that Desmond is the replacement for Jacob and is already in fact taking on that role in the current episodes in season 6.

Thoughts??

Yeah I have a lot of thoughts... And as destiny's dealt it, I have a free afternoon. ... So I'll use my free will to try to compile them.

But (this week), I think I'm thinking there may not be a replacement at all. That the way it'll pan out will be the "there's only one end."

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Hmmm and isn't it odd what we find in the painting in the hatch???

108 (not once but twice?) Maybe twice representing both Desmonds? We see what looks to be the MIB? And we see what looks to be a sad Penny. What else do you see???

Desmond is the new Jacob! I am sure of it!!

 

[WandererInFog]

Boom! That's awesome!

And of course the show has a history of giving us names that confuse us....

Jeremy Bentham was really John Locke
Sawyer was actually James Ford.
Kevin Johnson was actually Michael

Maybe Desmond Hume is actually Wallace? :think:

Desmond's full name is Desmond David Hume. In the 18th century there was a Scottish minister named Robert Wallace who published works opposing the economic theories of economist and philosopher David Hume. One of these works was entitled "Dissertation on the numbers of Mankind in ancient and modern times".

 

[zoo22]

This clinches it for me.

I've already thought about how parental issues are massively important in the Lost storyline for nearly every major character. But, where are Desmond's parents? Have we ever even heard him REFER to his parents? We may have, but if so, it was so minor as to have been almost completely forgotten. His parents are suspiciously hidden in the storytelling.

I believe all we know of Desmond's childhood is that he had to raise his (4?) brothers.

 

[The Graphite]

Oh, btw, just found another parallel last night.

SEASON 2 - Charlie (at the time, the "bad man" in the camp) set a fire by the beach camp to create a diversion to snatch up baby Charlie (who is "behind bars" in his crib) and spirit him away in the dark of night to "save" him. Of course, it ends badly for Charlie.

SEASON 5 - Sayid ("I am a very bad man") is behind bars, so child Ben starts a fire in the Dharma village to create a diversion to break Sayid out, and spirit him away in the night to save him. Of course, it ends badly for Ben.

In one, the bad man sets the child free from behind bars; in the other, the child sets the bad man free from behind bars. But it's done with a fire as a diversion, at night, and ends badly. Obvious parallel.

 

[The Graphite]

Hmmm and isn't it odd what we find in the painting in the hatch???

108 (not once but twice?) Maybe twice representing both Desmonds? We see what looks to be the MIB? And we see what looks to be a sad Penny. What else do you see???

Desmond is the new Jacob! I am sure of it!!

I see catastrophe, destruction. What looks like a sun may actually be an explosion -- I see buildings seemingly tossed around, water crashing over the land, general upheaval of... the island.

I dont' see 108 twice, though. Where? In the "sun" obviously. And I see 16 and 42, but can't find the other numbers.

 

[zoo22]

I see catastrophe, destruction. What looks like a sun may actually be an explosion -- I see buildings seemingly tossed around, water crashing over the land, general upheaval of... the island.

I dont' see 108 twice, though. Where? In the "sun" obviously. And I see 16 and 42, but can't find the other numbers.

One 108 is in the sun, the other is right below it. Not all of the numbers are on the mural.

Desmond did paint the mural, btw.

I don't think an answer is in the mural. Though of course, lost of LOST symbology is in it. But I think it's just general crazed island/hatch-inhabitant (Desmond) trying-to-make-sense-of-it-all chaos and confusion.

 

[Uberpod1]

Oh, btw, just found another parallel last night.



In one, the bad man sets the child free from behind bars; in the other, the child sets the bad man free from behind bars. But it's done with a fire as a diversion, at night, and ends badly. Obvious parallel.

I think most of your parellels are the product of the same writers trying to conjur up drama. They simple run out of new ideas.

 

[Poly]

HOLY MACKINOLY, BATMAN.....


to the whole thing about Desmond being a key from the beginning! I suggested this all along (you can ask NarrowWay and all of my family as well.... :sozo: if I'm lyin' I'm dyin' ), starting with the first season, and I never swayed, even when I was sick of the show and vowed never to watch it again before I realized how brilliant the writers were and why me getting mad (along with the rest of the world) was really necessary and a risk they the writers didn't mind taking to make their ideas work. I have always said to my family and others who I knew were watching, 'mark my words and keep your eye on desmond' and that everything that is transpiring with him, along with Penny (who have always been my favorite couple with Bernard and Rose coming in a close second) are going to be some of the most significant clues through out the seasons.

I'm tellin ya, these writers are flippin genious and incredibly innovative in their delivery down to the T.... PERIOD!!!

 

[The Graphite]

I think most of your parellels are the product of the same writers trying to conjur up drama. They simple run out of new ideas.

I definitely disagree, because it isn't done willy-nilly but consistently fits a pattern.

6 = 1

5 = 2

4 = 3

Nearly all the time. It is an intentional structure, or dare I say it... evidence of intelligent design. It is no accident, and it is not lazy. After all, we have terrific storytelling (for the most part) over six years, and yet certain events in this season -- taken strictly by themselves -- appear on the surface to be rather contrived and out of place. But they happen because they are specifically designed to mirror Season 1. And this is done so that the true, would-be mystery-solvers among the fans can pick up on that pattern, and then look at what else occurred in Season 1 and make predictions about what else will happen in Season 6.

For example, the raft was a major plot point in Season 1. The Losties wanted off the island. However, the raft was sabotaged before it ever even launched.

Therefore, I predict that the Losties will try to leave, either on the plane or on the sub, but that mode of escape will be disabled or even blown to bits, burned to the ground, thus blocking their escape, before that vehicle actually departs the island. Furthermore, I predict that it will be the sub, specifically. I am predicting now that Widmore will sabotage the sub or rig it to blow up to prevent escape from the island.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. We'll see.

 

[Oh no... it's Sozo]

When the helicopter was preparing to land, and the island disappeared, did the other island disappear also?

 

[The Graphite]

When the helicopter was preparing to land, and the island disappeared, did the other island disappear also?

You mean did it change locations? Interesting question...

 

[Oh no... it's Sozo]

Here's something else...

I don't have all of the details worked out yet, but somehow the MIB is John Locke, and that is why the look on Locke's face, when Desmond told him "You're John Locke". Locke pushes him in the well, and Desmond runs over him with his car.

 

[The Graphite]

Here's something else...

I don't have all of the details worked out yet, but somehow the MIB is John Locke, and that is why the look on Locke's face, when Desmond told him "You're John Locke". Locke pushes him in the well, and Desmond runs over him with his car.

Knight, you're right... Desmond is already stepping into Jacob's shoes.

As MIB's bratty older brother.


"He knocked me down!"

"Yeah, well, he pushed me first!"

"But, he called me a name!"

"Nuh uh!"

"Yuh huh!"

:argue:

 

[zoo22]

I definitely disagree, because it isn't done willy-nilly but consistently fits a pattern.

6 = 1

5 = 2

4 = 3

Nearly all the time. It is an intentional structure, or dare I say it... evidence of intelligent design. It is no accident, and it is not lazy. After all, we have terrific storytelling (for the most part) over six years, and yet certain events in this season -- taken strictly by themselves -- appear on the surface to be rather contrived and out of place. But they happen because they are specifically designed to mirror Season 1. And this is done so that the true, would-be mystery-solvers among the fans can pick up on that pattern, and then look at what else occurred in Season 1 and make predictions about what else will happen in Season 6.

For example, the raft was a major plot point in Season 1. The Losties wanted off the island. However, the raft was sabotaged before it ever even launched.

I'm still trying to put together some thoughts on the ABCCBA theory (and as I think you know, I'm definitely a mirror/parallel advocate), but saw this and wanted to comment... A parallel isn't necessarily a "parallel." And "all the time" is pretty daring. (I address that in my longer post).

Therefore, I predict that the Losties will try to leave, either on the plane or on the sub, but that mode of escape will be disabled or even blown to bits, burned to the ground, thus blocking their escape, before that vehicle actually departs the island. Furthermore, I predict that it will be the sub, specifically. I am predicting now that Widmore will sabotage the sub or rig it to blow up to prevent escape from the island.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. We'll see.

Well, I'd bet farm on you not being wrong in one of those transports trying and failing to leave. I'm with you there (I personally think they'll both fail).

BUT

This isn't meant to say that ABCCBA isn't accurate, or that the raft comparison isn't accurate, but at the risk of sounding lame: Of course (at least) one of those things (sub, plane) is going to try to leave and not make it. There's no way that both are going to successfully leave that island, and there's no way one would be left behind. First one will try to leave and fail, and then the other will try to leave and either fail or succeed. But to have both succeed or have left one unused seems inconceivable, story-telling-wise. The latter inconceivable for sure.

Similarly, at least one's got to explode. Because this is LOST, and there's no way that at least one of those big things isn't going to be blown up. We're building to a finale, and at this point, a LOST finale without some massive explosion would be like dinner with no food. It's like they're just sitting around on Hydra island waiting to explode. Hm... If both explode, the plane'd probably be last and it'll echo the original crash. lain: I just thought that one up now.

Also (while we're at it ), I don't think Widmore would blow up the sub. I think if he tried to stop anything, it seems to me more likely he'd try to stop the plane. I think Sawyer'll try to go through with his sub plan, and either MIB will stop the sub, or "the island" will step in.

While I was writing that last bit, I just got a new end-scenario speculation. But I have to think about it...

I hate that. Wait, I mean I love that.

Uh oh, I might have lost it... Um, the new end-scenario speculation I mean. lain:

When the helicopter was preparing to land, and the island disappeared, did the other island disappear also?

Yes. Well, I don't know if we actually saw it disappear(?), but it must have because it wasn't left behind when the island proper was gone.

I don't remember if we've seen it in different timelines, though. Actually, yes, I think so... When there was that mystery shooting canoe-chase time shift: The canoe was on the way to Hydra island and they flashed in time and they were being shot at by another canoe chasing them and then time flashed again and it was over.

 

[The Graphite]

I see your point about the likelihood of them being prevented from one or both of the potential escape vehicles.

However, my prediction stands about Widmore doing it. Because the raft was sabotaged by... whom? Walt. The son of the man who built it. Now, Widmore's son is dead, and his daughter Penny is nowhere near the island. Therefore, my bet is on him, to sabotage his own ship. Additionally, nobody on the island made (or created or even bought) the Ajira airliner. It's just a plane that belongs to the company. This is another reason why I am sure it will be the sub. It is owned by Widmore, and possibly even built by him (that is, under his leadership/supervision). It is his "raft." That fits the pattern. The airplane does not.

So, friendly wager. We'll see!